Sinewayv
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May 16, 2014, 07:10:07 PM |
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Sigh.
/Cheer? Doesn't this mean we can join in and take them the legal route, contact them now! Tell us what's happening, have you had any contacts, calls or any moves forward that we can take with this refund?
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Choadmeyer
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May 21, 2014, 10:52:45 PM |
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Sigh.
/Cheer? Doesn't this mean we can join in and take them the legal route, contact them now! Tell us what's happening, have you had any contacts, calls or any moves forward that we can take with this refund? Agreed. It may not be too late to join the fight.
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tekke
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May 29, 2014, 12:40:13 PM |
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Thanks for the update, let's see what can we get out of it
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filharvey
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June 06, 2014, 01:17:24 AM |
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So basically we are losing everything here. So this has been a total scam as far as I'm concerned. Everyone running this was against taking the refund when it got offered. Now I want to wonder why, did they just assume Hashfast would fuck up and scam people? I don't care what the story is, I wanted refund they did not do it, they all should be down as scammers as much as hashfast.
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forevernoob
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June 06, 2014, 04:57:41 PM |
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So basically we are losing everything here. So this has been a total scam as far as I'm concerned. Everyone running this was against taking the refund when it got offered. Now I want to wonder why, did they just assume Hashfast would fuck up and scam people? I don't care what the story is, I wanted refund they did not do it, they all should be down as scammers as much as hashfast.
Look pal how many people do you think actually got their refund? I bet they stopped paying out refunds pretty quick.
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itod
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^ Will code for Bitcoins
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June 06, 2014, 10:53:50 PM |
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I'm still the person who is fighting for you to get money back, this is how you treat me? Come on now. Although I understand your frustration, you're just going to make yourself look silly with these types of posts, you're directing your anger at the wrong person. By all means vent if you need to but accusations will not be tolerated.
Waldo, you were not talking to me, but let me respond. Nobody is trying to accuse you, just stating the facts. You've collected ~600 BTC from us for 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades. You've forwarded ~400 BTC to Hashfast to purchase these 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades, the rest ~200 BTC is in your possession, which you state are for some future expenses running our equipment, those expenses never actually came to be because machines never being delivered. To put aside your efforts to recollect those ~400 BTC from HashFast, there's a simple question of those ~200 BTC which you hold at this very moment. On which grounds are you waiting for a refund from HashFast to refund these ~200 BTC? Why do we have to wait? Why are we not refunded that 1/3 of our money immediately?
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filharvey
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June 07, 2014, 12:42:55 AM |
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Well sorry, but it was you who decided to start the law suit. There was no formal vote of people who wanted refund / law suit. So in the end it was your decision.
I really do not care about your other group buys, for this one, you have gone missing for weeks or months at a time. Look at your last month here, you posted I the end of April, it is now June.
You are the person who took money to get a product. If and when I get any part of a refund, I may feel differently. But at the moment, I don't.
I have basically given up with trusting anyone now in the bitcoin group buy arena. None of you can be. Trusted.
Phil
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nenad2
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June 08, 2014, 12:20:17 PM |
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I'm still the person who is fighting for you to get money back, this is how you treat me? Come on now. Although I understand your frustration, you're just going to make yourself look silly with these types of posts, you're directing your anger at the wrong person. By all means vent if you need to but accusations will not be tolerated.
Waldo, you were not talking to me, but let me respond. Nobody is trying to accuse you, just stating the facts. You've collected ~600 BTC from us for 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades. You've forwarded ~400 BTC to Hashfast to purchase these 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades, the rest ~200 BTC is in your possession, which you state are for some future expenses running our equipment, those expenses never actually came to be because machines never being delivered. To put aside your efforts to recollect those ~400 BTC from HashFast, there's a simple question of those ~200 BTC which you hold at this very moment. On which grounds are you waiting for a refund from HashFast to refund these ~200 BTC? Why do we have to wait? Why are we not refunded that 1/3 of our money immediately? I am also interested in this. I don't know the amount, but I'm pretty sure waldo collected more money than the actual cost of miners. When will this be refunded?
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floatyfish
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June 08, 2014, 03:56:56 PM |
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I'm still the person who is fighting for you to get money back, this is how you treat me? Come on now. Although I understand your frustration, you're just going to make yourself look silly with these types of posts, you're directing your anger at the wrong person. By all means vent if you need to but accusations will not be tolerated.
Waldo, you were not talking to me, but let me respond. Nobody is trying to accuse you, just stating the facts. You've collected ~600 BTC from us for 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades. You've forwarded ~400 BTC to Hashfast to purchase these 7 Baby Jets and 7 upgrades, the rest ~200 BTC is in your possession, which you state are for some future expenses running our equipment, those expenses never actually came to be because machines never being delivered. To put aside your efforts to recollect those ~400 BTC from HashFast, there's a simple question of those ~200 BTC which you hold at this very moment. On which grounds are you waiting for a refund from HashFast to refund these ~200 BTC? Why do we have to wait? Why are we not refunded that 1/3 of our money immediately? Thirded. I'm all for the lawsuit against HF going forward because frankly I want to have an example made out of these assholes, but I am curious about the other BTC that should be in your possession. It would be really helpful if you could address the issue head on instead of just having people speculate about what happened to their BTC.
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If you feel like donating: 1NtgJf4znCsA5GJDCbqtowHL2143WyqLkC
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nenad2
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June 08, 2014, 08:35:31 PM |
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I thought I wrote out a long reply in regards to the BTC but that must have not posted, so I'm going to re-write TL;DR version.
I collected ~580BTC (Yes, more than the actual miners costed) and uh, duh. I offered shares at a price (you agreed to that price). If you added all of the shares up to what the miner costed I would profit a coin or two. (~$300?) I justified that with doing my work to organize. I didn't make anyone buy anything. You read the terms, you say the price.
Moving forward.
Please stop pulling random ass numbers and confusing people here.
I collected ~590BTC and sent HashFast ~540BTC. I know this because I had to verify, verify and verify again every single invoice with Ray Gallo to get our figures straight to pursue legal action against HashFast.
"What happened to all of that BTC then?!?!!??" - I sold it at various times to pay for equipment and build the data center room. Please keep in mind BTC was ~60-~80 at the time and selling with Coinbase to quickly receive USD may not have been the most efficient way, but that's what I was doing. So yeah, ~2k-4k was cashed out over the course of months to prepare everything on top of paying for time. Sorry if you feel thats me robbing you guys somehow, but that is far from it.
"But we didn't even use that room! Why do we have to pay for it?!!?" - I agree. Every share probably paid ~$5 extra in order for me to build it. It's a lot when you add it up, but it is far from a lot when it's per share.
This is why I decided to officially go with Ray Gallo and pursue HashFast the legal way to get as much as we can in a return.
So, that's what it is guys. I do not have 200BTC just sitting in some cool offline wallet. The fact you guys even pulled out some random BTC numbers and started spreading BS already pissed me off to not even feel the need to explain anything, but like I stated earlier, things are different and I will just be rising above the BS and will be putting everything out there.
So, this wasn't really a TL;DR so.
Collected ~590BTC, sent ~540BTC to HashFast.
Cashed out ~3-4k (~50BTC) to pay for time, equipment and construction services over the course of a few months.
HashFast failed and scammed 98% of it's 'customers'.
We're pursuing legal action against HashFast with an attorney.
If you want to continue to argue with me over what was done- I'm pretty much showing all of my cards on the table. That's what it was, how it is and where we are going to move forward. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you wanted to hear but that's exactly what was and is happening. Good luck to us all on the HashFast legal situation.
WH
Then why are you pursuing legal action against HashFast? By your logic, they've done nothing wrong: they offered a price and we agreed, they spend the bitcoins on hardware and salaries. Sure we didn't get to use the miners, and it may seem like they took a lot of money, but when you divide it by an arbitrary number, it's not a lot any more. If the miners were not delivered, you're suppose to refund all the bitcoins (minus 3% fee, which you added later), not just the ones you didn't spend. Sure, you have problems getting the money from HashFast, but you have no excuse for not refunding the rest.
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itod
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June 10, 2014, 12:06:18 AM |
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So, this wasn't really a TL;DR so.
Collected ~590BTC, sent ~540BTC to HashFast.
...
If you want to continue to argue with me over what was done- I'm pretty much showing all of my cards on the table. That's what it was, how it is and where we are going to move forward. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you wanted to hear but that's exactly what was and is happening. Good luck to us all on the HashFast legal situation.
WH
Don't mind my asking, but i would like to see the proof of this ~540BTC sent to HashFast. The ~590BTC collected figure is pretty much on spot with my estimations (~600BTC), but this ~540BTC is a way off (estimated ~400BTC) for 7 BabyJets and 7 upgrades. I'm not saying you are not speaking the truth, but since you are claiming that you are "showing all of my cards on the table" can you please upload somewhere the invoices in US$? We can easily see the dates and US$ amounts on the invoices, and find the BTC value on these days. If it is more convenient to you you can post the actual links to BTC transactions if you have them logged. We are finally beginning to clear this mess, thanks for being willing to get involved in this process, but you'll agree it is not unimportant if the price difference between collected and payed amount is 50BTC or 200BTC.
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itod
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June 10, 2014, 12:08:27 PM |
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I'll get around to putting something together to show you, and everyone.
And to clear up your confusion, I purchased 8 Baby Jets, 7 Upgrade Kits and 1 Sierra. Not 7 and 7, like you're assuming, not sure where you got those numbers from? You're making so many accusations and you don't even have your numbers correct. I believe the total was closer to ~520 and not 540, now that I'm thinking of it.
There are no accusations, just my evidence doesn't match with what you are claiming few posts above. Maybe my info is wrong, maybe yours, glad you are willing to publish hard evidence to bring facts to the light. Here is where I get my numbers from: I was calculating 7 BabyJets and 7 upgrades that this group buy is all about, as it was stated in the opening post of this thread (now deleted, I've quoted it in this pastebin: http://pastebin.com/3sPftjbD) and in the Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/teamredditmining/comments/1k1ixv/group_buy_hashfast_shares/. That 8th BabyJet and 1 Sierra i didn't know they even existed, they were not part of this group buy. These are the facts that I've logged: HashFast Baby Jet Miner #1 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #2 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #3 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #4 - Order #932 - August 18, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #5 - Order #982 - August 18, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #6 - Order #1378 - August 24, 2013 (?) HashFast Baby Jet Miner #7 - Order #1486 - August 24, 2013 (?) Upgrade Kit #1 - Order #1995 - September 24, 2013 Upgrade Kit #2 - Order #2014 - September 25, 2013 Upgrade Kit #3 - Order #2040 - September 26, 2013 Upgrade Kit #4 - Order #2063 - September 27, 2013 Upgrade Kit #5 - Order #2068 - September 29, 2013 Upgrade Kit #6 - Order #2069 - September 29, 2013 Upgrade Kit #7 - Order #2097 - September 30, 2013 Those invoices for BabyJet #6 & #7 are never published, so the August 24th date of purchase for these two miners is an estimation based on the time you've published in this thread you've made a payment. I would like to see these invoices also, the invoices for other five BabyJets I've logged here: http://imgur.com/a/39jS0. Then I've collected the BTC prices on the purchase dates, August 15th, 18th, 24th, September 24-30, and multiplied it with the prices of equipment with shipping we know from HashFast site. The rough calculation is ~45-50BTC for each BabyJet and ~12BTC for each upgrade. That sums to ~400BTC which is my estimation I've stated here. If we would have the invoices for the rest of 9 of 14 pieces of hardware we would not have to estimate, we would know the exact figure. Once again I'm glad you are willing to publish the rest of the facts we as a group buyers are missing, and to clear this once and for all.
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itod
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June 11, 2014, 03:55:17 PM |
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I'll get around to putting something together to show you, and everyone.
And to clear up your confusion, I purchased 8 Baby Jets, 7 Upgrade Kits and 1 Sierra. Not 7 and 7, like you're assuming, not sure where you got those numbers from? You're making so many accusations and you don't even have your numbers correct. I believe the total was closer to ~520 and not 540, now that I'm thinking of it.
There are no accusations, just my evidence doesn't match with what you are claiming few posts above. Maybe my info is wrong, maybe yours, glad you are willing to publish hard evidence to bring facts to the light. Here is where I get my numbers from: I was calculating 7 BabyJets and 7 upgrades that this group buy is all about, as it was stated in the opening post of this thread (now deleted, I've quoted it in this pastebin: http://pastebin.com/3sPftjbD) and in the Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/teamredditmining/comments/1k1ixv/group_buy_hashfast_shares/. That 8th BabyJet and 1 Sierra i didn't know they even existed, they were not part of this group buy. These are the facts that I've logged: HashFast Baby Jet Miner #1 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #2 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #3 - Order #838 - August 15, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #4 - Order #932 - August 18, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #5 - Order #982 - August 18, 2013 HashFast Baby Jet Miner #6 - Order #1378 - August 24, 2013 (?) HashFast Baby Jet Miner #7 - Order #1486 - August 24, 2013 (?) Upgrade Kit #1 - Order #1995 - September 24, 2013 Upgrade Kit #2 - Order #2014 - September 25, 2013 Upgrade Kit #3 - Order #2040 - September 26, 2013 Upgrade Kit #4 - Order #2063 - September 27, 2013 Upgrade Kit #5 - Order #2068 - September 29, 2013 Upgrade Kit #6 - Order #2069 - September 29, 2013 Upgrade Kit #7 - Order #2097 - September 30, 2013 Those invoices for BabyJet #6 & #7 are never published, so the August 24th date of purchase for these two miners is an estimation based on the time you've published in this thread you've made a payment. I would like to see these invoices also, the invoices for other five BabyJets I've logged here: http://imgur.com/a/39jS0. Then I've collected the BTC prices on the purchase dates, August 15th, 18th, 24th, September 24-30, and multiplied it with the prices of equipment with shipping we know from HashFast site. The rough calculation is ~45-50BTC for each BabyJet and ~12BTC for each upgrade. That sums to ~400BTC which is my estimation I've stated here. If we would have the invoices for the rest of 9 of 14 pieces of hardware we would not have to estimate, we would know the exact figure. Once again I'm glad you are willing to publish the rest of the facts we as a group buyers are missing, and to clear this once and for all. Actually, if you look up the definition of accusation, that's exactly what you are doing. Accusing me (using evidence or not of what was published) of doing something wrong, your actions are clearly accusations. The fact you even try to go toe-to-toe with me with facts is almost, I don't know. I just find it funny how you could assume you have any idea (or all of the accounting figures for that matter) what goes on behind the scenes and try to use information that I posted (and missing information I have not posted) against me. I've stated tons of times I did not just send 400BTC and did not collect over 600- but you guys wouldn't believe me. It was at a point where I didn't give a fly if you believed me or not, you can't hide the truth no matter what and in the end everyone would see. I felt I was wasting time/energy/effort on proving myself for which, I literally did not need to at all. All of this debating, back and forth, arguing, accusations was stressful and annoying. "You should have just proved you actually sent the BTC then, then we shouldn't have attacked you." No, that is NOT correct. Civil people do NOT attack others for no damn reason when the person is clearly saying he is not lying and has a history showing he is honest. I wasn't a random person, I'm not a newbie nor a first time organizer. I believe I had been already paying hundreds of people from my KnCMiner Jupiters on a weekly basis by the time you all had your pitch forks out, "hes a scammer! he took our money!" - I was more offended by the lack of trust than your guy's actual words. /living in the past ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Either way, here's the latest spread I had put together for Ray, right around ~520BTC (~70k?). Like you said, hopefully this puts the 'wheres the btc' situation at a close and hopefully we can move forward and start to focus on the outcome of our legal recourse. Any important legal updates that directly relate to us will be posted and xposted to the website as they get forwarded from Ray to me. * Also, to everyone who kept screaming and yelling at me "It's not your damn money, that's why you don't give a ***" (may have been you itod?) - That last Sierra, only 2 shares sold, meaning I'm out 26BTC just for that Sierra, I'm the majority share holder in that whole miner, so again, you guys need to really think before you speak so you do not come off looking stupid. Additionally, if you look at it at a customer standpoint, I'm my own biggest customer. Nobody had purchased that high of a quantity of shares in a miner, so aside from me being the organizer I'm also the loudest share-holding voice as well (as far as power in the GB)- I did not use that as direct arsenal but when I continued to state "I always have the share holders best interest at heart" - I really did/do. # Miner Name Order # BTC Paid 1 Baby Jet 838 162.77333 2 Baby Jet 838 # 3 Baby Jet 838 # 4 Baby Jet 932 61.6747195 5 Baby Jet 982 54.48656812 6 Baby Jet 1378 50.75365912 7 Baby Jet 1486 47.27461752 8 Upgrade Kit 1995 13.58885812 9 Upgrade Kit 2014 13.48452275 10 Upgrade Kit 2040 13.39359396 11 Upgrade Kit 2063 13.26791252 12 Upgrade Kit 2089 13.18924901 13 Upgrade Kit 2097 26.1039823 14 Upgrade Kit 2097 # 15 Baby Jet 2334 21.37364546 16 Sierra 2689 28.6214659
I don't want to argue about the word "accusations ". You've put it into my mouth, just like you've mentioned "You should have just proved you actually sent the BTC..." I've never, ever mentioned that also. My only intention is to establish the difference between collected amount from us and amount sent to HashFast. Based on the post above, for 7 BabyJets and 7 upgrades amount payed to HashFast is: http://goo.gl/3Z49YoThat's almost exactly 470 BTC. Now we know the figure. I don't have access any more to Google table with exact amounts collected from everyone, but there should be ~600 BTC. Let's say it's 590 BTC you've stated in a few posts above. That's the difference of 120 BTC between collected and payed amount. I have no idea why is that 8th BabyJet purchased, if you've purchased it for your self, it's entirely your affair. Regarding that ~28 BTC for Sierra I don't see what's that have to do with this group buy. That's all I've wanted from these posts, establishing there's 120 BTC of our money still in your possession, which were never sent to HashFast purchasing the miners for this group buy. I hope we agree on that figure, if we don't agree should those 120 BTC be refunded immediately or not.
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Sinewayv
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June 13, 2014, 11:45:17 PM |
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Hi WH and all, i hold 1 share on the hashfast upgrades, not much, but enough to be concerned as to what's happening with all this now. Despite all the differences ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) , if there are BTC funds from the GB available remaining, please release that portion which is available ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) (if any), and then update us on the legal battles. It has now been plenty of time for hashfast to have notice, please give us any updates from Ray, as all is eerily quiet ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif)
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Chef Ramsay
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June 14, 2014, 12:55:42 AM |
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^I'm in the same but larger boat as you but these court cases take time to play out. Just be happy that Waldo signed on as we have a somewhat chance at getting ~60% of our original money back if things go alright.
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filharvey
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July 11, 2014, 12:50:13 AM |
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Hi filharvey,
It's come to my attention you have left negative trust on my account for an issue that is completely out of my hands.
I'm sure you are well aware I have ponied up the money for legal funds for the HashFast lawsuit - I would like to inform you that if you do not remove the negative trust and/or any negative remarks against me or my company (in regards to HF) this will mean that you agree to forfeiting your initial investment.
I will not allow my name nor my company to be slandered while I work hard trying to get your investment back.
If you agree to forfeit your initial investment there is no need to reply.
If you agree to my terms of not talking trash on me/company while I work to get you your funds, please remove the negative trust and either leave a neutral or positive saying TBD.
This is not a strong-arm tactic, this is just common sense.
It's pretty simple, do not feel you're entitled to a refund while you talk trash on me or my company. If you feel that you're entitled to do that, then you agree those funds you put up for HF are lost, and you can talk trash all day.
(PS- This was only brought to my attention when someone PM'd me asking "Why do you have negative trust when HF scammed everyone?")
I really hope you choose the adult/correct decision, WH
Looks like I will not be seeing my refund, as I will not be strong armed, and blackmailed into changing my view on how this has been handled. fil
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filharvey
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 11, 2014, 01:02:40 AM |
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Hi filharvey,
It's come to my attention you have left negative trust on my account for an issue that is completely out of my hands.
I'm sure you are well aware I have ponied up the money for legal funds for the HashFast lawsuit - I would like to inform you that if you do not remove the negative trust and/or any negative remarks against me or my company (in regards to HF) this will mean that you agree to forfeiting your initial investment.
I will not allow my name nor my company to be slandered while I work hard trying to get your investment back.
If you agree to forfeit your initial investment there is no need to reply.
If you agree to my terms of not talking trash on me/company while I work to get you your funds, please remove the negative trust and either leave a neutral or positive saying TBD.
This is not a strong-arm tactic, this is just common sense.
It's pretty simple, do not feel you're entitled to a refund while you talk trash on me or my company. If you feel that you're entitled to do that, then you agree those funds you put up for HF are lost, and you can talk trash all day.
(PS- This was only brought to my attention when someone PM'd me asking "Why do you have negative trust when HF scammed everyone?")
I really hope you choose the adult/correct decision, WH
Looks like I will not be seeing my refund, as I will not be strong armed, and blackmailed into changing my view on how this has been handled. fil Well looks like if there is ever a refund, Sean's Outpost will be receiving my with-held investment. I hope that they see it. fil
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Chef Ramsay
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July 11, 2014, 05:18:11 PM |
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If all goes right I'm assuming we'll be getting back ~60% of the investment in USD and not in the original BTC denomination to which was given to HF? Or more realistically, we'll get a group cut % of whatever HF has left (be it money or equipment) and then that is either divvied up or put to work for us. Ideally, we'd just get our original coin investment back minus the attorney fees. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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DjPxH
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July 16, 2014, 11:07:43 PM |
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I replied to your PM Sinewayv ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) But like Chef is saying, it's going to take a long time for this case to show some results. To sum up what has been going on so far is they do not have enough to pay creditors, they are sitting on ASIC chips and may use them as repayment, they are granted the permission of new sales without acquiring new loans. The biggest creditor DM- had a $2M B1 order, to which is now $15M in their claim. HF obviously cannot pay that, so they are open to accepting more hash power at a later time. This factor is important because whatever the decision is, that's a direct relations to all other creditors in the dilution refund. If they want the refund, that would hurt ours (and other smaller creditors) more than going the chip route. Next decision made by the courts/creditors I'll post up here. So they basically have been hindered at selling chips that might have been profitable 3/4 a year ago? I doubt they'll be able to squeeze anything out of liquidating that wasted silicon ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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