-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[Xian01]

But Even AMD had to delay their 6990 by 6 months because they had to re-engineer their cooling system!!!

 If I have my history correct, I believe the 7990 was delayed as well due to similar cooling challenges.

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[Bicknellski]

BOYCOTT BFL... solves a lot of problems for the community and gets rid of blight on the community.

[Vlad2Vlad]

But Even AMD had to delay their 6990 by 6 months because they had to re-engineer their cooling system!!!

 If I have my history correct, I believe the 7990 was delayed as well due to similar cooling challenges.

Maybe they'll use AMD's issues as a lesson, I'm are their board designs are public info.  Just reverse engineer it and make it work.

But it's still gonna be a real task to work out all the bugs and the heat issues.  That's why I think they got rid of PayPal - no way they're gonna have this ready to roll in 2-3 months the way they announced.

[Ytterbium]

But Even AMD had to delay their 6990 by 6 months because they had to re-engineer their cooling system!!!

 If I have my history correct, I believe the 7990 was delayed as well due to similar cooling challenges.

Maybe they'll use AMD's issues as a lesson, I'm are their board designs are public info.  Just reverse engineer it and make it work.

But it's still gonna be a real task to work out all the bugs and the heat issues.  That's why I think they got rid of PayPal - no way they're gonna have this ready to roll in 2-3 months the way they announced.

Sure, but they're already showing renderings - and those renderings don't look like the 6990, which has it's fan in the center of the board, not the end.

It's kind of hilarious. They're showing the rendering to make it look like the card has already been designed.  In reality they obviously just spent a few minutes slapping their name on what's either clip art or maybe took a couple hours to work up in some 3D package.

It really reeks of desperation. Kinda sad they're able to scam so much money out of rubes.

[androz]

bfl could gain a bit credibility (if is still possible ) only if they have blades ready to ship (impossible)

i would like to know how many ppl trust them at this point and still submit preorders

[erk]

I think BFL have announced 28nm product to make themselves not look obsolete against the competition.

Currently both KNCminer and Bitfury have way more efficient chips than what BFL are "shipping". We should see the KNCminer prototypes next month, if they live up to their promises, then KNCminer will gain instant customer loyalty, and not many people are going to consider BFL anymore even with this new offering, because KNCminer will be months ahead on difficulty/ROI. If KNCminer disappoint, then Bitfury will take the lead.

[Vlad2Vlad]

bfl could gain a bit credibility (if is still possible ) only if they have blades ready to ship (impossible)

i would like to know how many ppl trust them at this point and still submit preorders

Lots of people are upgrading out of desperation cause they know their gen1 units will take a long time to get so why not try for gen2 and that way they'll get a double in speed and lower electricity bill.

So a lot of mini rig and singles customers will upgrade.  That helps BFL Cause they get a fat cash infusion and also cause it will help clear the backlog.

It helps a lot of customers cause it means they'll ship little singles and jalapeños out much faster now and give us a chance to at least break even before the huge rigs hit the market in a few months.

I instinctively felt this would happen with the more expensive units so I bought 14 jalapeños and I think 2 or 3 little singles.  So I should now hoefully get my units by November. 

I'd like to add some HBoards to the 25Gh little singles but I'm not familiar with that or how much it would take tech wise as I'm not that good with computers.   I read that you can add like 7 Hboards to each 25GH unit so that means I can add 15 HBoards at 40GH per board.  That's quite a bit. 

Plus you can OC the jalapeños so a 7.5 jally can be more like 10GH.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I think BFL have announced 28nm product to make themselves not look obsolete against the competition.

Currently both KNCminer and Bitfury have way more efficient chips than what BFL are "shipping". We should see the KNCminer prototypes next month, if they live up to their promises, then KNCminer will gain instant customer loyalty, and not many people are going to consider BFL anymore even with this new offering. If KNCminer disappoint, then Bitfury will take the lead.

I agree that might be the reason to announce this so prematurely or at least part of the reason.  I can't believe they were in such a lead and they didn't even think to do a gen2.  That's arrogance for you - overcharge the hell out of customers. Ship chips in bulk to drive difficulty even higher and only after the much smaller guy announces a better Gen2 product do they start to take a look at it.

Greed, arrogance and stupidity describes BFL decisions and attitude towards their most loyal customers.

[PuertoLibre]

bfl could gain a bit credibility (if is still possible ) only if they have blades ready to ship (impossible)

i would like to know how many ppl trust them at this point and still submit preorders

Lots of people are upgrading out of desperation cause they know their gen1 units will take a long time to get so why not try for gen2 and that way they'll get a double in speed and lower electricity bill.

So a lot of mini rig and singles customers will upgrade.  That helps BFL Cause they get a fat cash infusion and also cause it will help clear the backlog.

More like the customers are breaking down their doors with PayPal and CC's.

They are probably getting mad cash flowing out the door and the only way to stop the mad dash of customers taking their money from the piggy bank is to entice them into yet another pipe dream.

All Speculation, of course.

A) To get them to commit to a different product.

B) To remove PayPal and CC's from the equation.

C) To provide PayPal and CC's a valid reason why the money should not be removed from their hands so they start winning Chargeback cases rather than getting screwed each time. (Customer will provide the means to do this by "Transferring their order")

The 10% fee to "Transfer" their order is probably just their current projected losses. In effect the customers are giving them that freebie through a transfer...and not a straight forward purchase. So word to the wise, rip the money from their hands first to prevent losing 10% of that cash in your hand.

D) It's basically an admittance (IMO) that they won't meet their target date of Sep 30th. 2013. They need to seriously reduce their exposure to lawsuits and liability. This is a way of doing so (IMO).

E) All of the above.

[southerngentuk]

B) To remove PayPal and CC's from the equation.

This 

[ionstorm]

Stay away, buy from Asicminer instead or competitors than are capable of shipping out devices immediately as well as companies that VALUE their customers and give them exceptional customer service.  The best service any company can give us is a fast shipped product and no delays.  There is no excuse for this, especially a multimillion dollar company like BFL.  They could hire enough people to have their existing stock shipped in a week or two if they really wanted to, obviously they dont care and they are profiting more by having customers wait.  Please for the love of bitcoin stay away from companies like BFL and Avalon, they are a stain on this community and feeding into their bullshit will only result into being screwed over by time.  You'll slowly realize after pre-ordering one of these that you will wish you hadn't.  If people refuse to pre-order they may consider dropping their prices and guaranteeing a good shipping timeframe.  Dont expect this product making ROI

[TwinTurbo]

I would love for this new card to be real, but I have a hard time believing this is achievable. I hope someone can prove me wrong. Let's look at this from a competition perspective:

Avalon: 110nm, 67 GH/s, 600+ watts
BFL: 65nm, 60 GH/s, 300+ watts
KNC Miner: 28nm, 400+ GH/s, ~1,000 watts (Yet to be seen)

BFL Monarch: 28nm, 600 GH/s, 350 watts

So the die size cutting nearly in half from the Avalon's 110nm to the BFL's 65nm cut the power in half for roughly the same performance (60-67 GH/s). Avalon is 600+ watts, BFL single is 300+ watts. Makes sense.

One would assume that cutting the die size in half again to 28nm from 65nm would allow the power to be cut in half again for the same 60 GH/s performance. Let's assume it consumes 150 watts as a result (half that of a Single). Seems reasonable.

But now let's assume instead of 60GH/s, the performance is going to be 600 GH/s. If we are going to increase the hash rate by 10x, then the power requirement will also likely increase by 10x. That means the power should be roughly 1,500 watts (about the maximum you can safely draw from a single residential power circuit in the US).

If memory serves me correctly, KNC miner estimated 1,000 watts for their rig. If the BFL Monarch is going to perform 50% greater and the same die size, then power draw naturally would also seem to be 50% greater. So, that seems consistent with my 1,500 watt figure above.

It would be great to get some clarification from BFL on this before placing orders.

Thoughts anyone?

[erk]

Bitfury  55nm 400GH/s 400watt

Imagine how they would look at 28nm.

[amencon]

bfl could gain a bit credibility (if is still possible ) only if they have blades ready to ship (impossible)

i would like to know how many ppl trust them at this point and still submit preorders

Lots of people are upgrading out of desperation cause they know their gen1 units will take a long time to get so why not try for gen2 and that way they'll get a double in speed and lower electricity bill.

Ah yes, the trusty "this company fucked me on my first order so I'll never even recoup my costs and thus justifies giving them even more money" logic.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitfury  55nm 400GH/s 400watt

Imagine how they would look at 28nm.

Wow, no kidding.  And that should be coming in under 6 months.  I'd say at least 1,000 GH and max 400 watt. That would be killer.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I would love for this new card to be real, but I have a hard time believing this is achievable. I hope someone can prove me wrong. Let's look at this from a competition perspective:

Avalon: 110nm, 67 GH/s, 600+ watts
BFL: 65nm, 60 GH/s, 300+ watts
KNC Miner: 28nm, 400+ GH/s, ~1,000 watts (Yet to be seen)

BFL Monarch: 28nm, 600 GH/s, 350 watts

So the die size cutting nearly in half from the Avalon's 110nm to the BFL's 65nm cut the power in half for roughly the same performance (60-67 GH/s). Avalon is 600+ watts, BFL single is 300+ watts. Makes sense.

One would assume that cutting the die size in half again to 28nm from 65nm would allow the power to be cut in half again for the same 60 GH/s performance. Let's assume it consumes 150 watts as a result (half that of a Single). Seems reasonable.

But now let's assume instead of 60GH/s, the performance is going to be 600 GH/s. If we are going to increase the hash rate by 10x, then the power requirement will also likely increase by 10x. That means the power should be roughly 1,500 watts (about the maximum you can safely draw from a single residential power circuit in the US).

If memory serves me correctly, KNC miner estimated 1,000 watts for their rig. If the BFL Monarch is going to perform 50% greater and the same die size, then power draw naturally would also seem to be 50% greater. So, that seems consistent with my 1,500 watt figure above.

It would be great to get some clarification from BFL on this before placing orders.

Thoughts anyone?

BFL could be fudging their numbers (again) to get orders?  Nah, not possible. 

[Bicknellski]

I would love for this new card to be real, but I have a hard time believing this is achievable. I hope someone can prove me wrong. Let's look at this from a competition perspective:

Avalon: 110nm, 67 GH/s, 600+ watts
BFL: 65nm, 60 GH/s, 300+ watts
KNC Miner: 28nm, 400+ GH/s, ~1,000 watts (Yet to be seen)

BFL Monarch: 28nm, 600 GH/s, 350 watts

So the die size cutting nearly in half from the Avalon's 110nm to the BFL's 65nm cut the power in half for roughly the same performance (60-67 GH/s). Avalon is 600+ watts, BFL single is 300+ watts. Makes sense.

One would assume that cutting the die size in half again to 28nm from 65nm would allow the power to be cut in half again for the same 60 GH/s performance. Let's assume it consumes 150 watts as a result (half that of a Single). Seems reasonable.

But now let's assume instead of 60GH/s, the performance is going to be 600 GH/s. If we are going to increase the hash rate by 10x, then the power requirement will also likely increase by 10x. That means the power should be roughly 1,500 watts (about the maximum you can safely draw from a single residential power circuit in the US).

If memory serves me correctly, KNC miner estimated 1,000 watts for their rig. If the BFL Monarch is going to perform 50% greater and the same die size, then power draw naturally would also seem to be 50% greater. So, that seems consistent with my 1,500 watt figure above.

It would be great to get some clarification from BFL on this before placing orders.

Thoughts anyone?

BFL could be fudging their numbers (again) to get orders?  Nah, not possible. 

Have to show a working prototype that hit numbers before anyone in their right mind would even consider BFL... given their reputation Boycotting them outright is really the best move as they have lost all integrity as player in the marketplace.

[bobboooiie]

It is incredible that during all this backlog issues they still had time to work on 600GH 28nm miner.

[Bicknellski]

It is incredible that during all this backlog issues they still had time to work on 600GH 28nm miner.

They have nothing being worked on.

Anyone can post they are WORKING on something doesn't mean they are and given the "design" as you go with their ASICs so far what makes anyone think they actually have anything? Don't believe it. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

It is incredible that during all this backlog issues they still had time to work on 600GH 28nm miner.

Well, how hard is it to download an AMD 6990 or 7990 GPU pic and slap some BFL logos on it and move the fan to the rear?

That's like a $12.50 job right there and in return you get like $3 million preorders.  I'd be thrilled.  Talk about positive ROI.  Hahahahaaa.  


Hey, if it helps clear the backlog I'm gonna call it genius, and it looks like its doing just that.