-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[DrJoeGrine]

"I'll give you my dat file when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"

             Unacceptable  

No need for a dar file.  They hard fork Bitcoin and criminalize any other coin and any other version of bitcoin.

With ZERO exchanges and zero businesses taking your old bitcoins it will become worthless.  Also, since its all virtual they can probably plan ahead and infect everyone wallets and when they pass the law they'll automate locally delete your coins.  There's a lot of ways to do it and you can be sure the fed will never get out of the business of printing money, virtual or otherwise.

I don't think you understand how bitcoin actually works. It's not that simple.  Having 51% of the network doesn't mean you can do 'whatever you want', you still can't transfer money out of wallets you don't have the keys too.

I understand how bitcoin works and to make things simple just look at what Thailand just did:  they criminalized Bitcoin.  End of story.  

No they didn't. That story was completely false. And even if they did, so what?  It wouldn't prevent anyone from using bitcoin, it would just be illegal.  Making something illegal doesn't cause it to cease to exist.


Bitcoin is different then gold in that it's just data, and bitcoin wallets can be stored on any computer. The word "crypto" means hidden.  You might be able to hide a bar or two of gold, but you can't hide a mountain of it.  A million dollars worth of BTC can be stored on a USB stick or memory card. Or a printed QR code.  The amount of data needed is so small you could memorize it

The government can pass all the laws it wants.  It can't change mathematics.

You forget one little thing. If the government says it is illegal, then no merchants can accept it for product, which will eventually kill the value of BTC, etc. etc.

[1715277417]

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[1715277417]

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[1715277417]

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[1715277417]

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[1715277417]

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[Vlad2Vlad]

"I'll give you my dat file when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"

             Unacceptable  

No need for a dar file.  They hard fork Bitcoin and criminalize any other coin and any other version of bitcoin.

With ZERO exchanges and zero businesses taking your old bitcoins it will become worthless.  Also, since its all virtual they can probably plan ahead and infect everyone wallets and when they pass the law they'll automate locally delete your coins.  There's a lot of ways to do it and you can be sure the fed will never get out of the business of printing money, virtual or otherwise.

I don't think you understand how bitcoin actually works. It's not that simple.  Having 51% of the network doesn't mean you can do 'whatever you want', you still can't transfer money out of wallets you don't have the keys too.

I understand how bitcoin works and to make things simple just look at what Thailand just did:  they criminalized Bitcoin.  End of story.  

No they didn't. That story was completely false. And even if they did, so what?  It wouldn't prevent anyone from using bitcoin, it would just be illegal.  Making something illegal doesn't cause it to cease to exist.


Bitcoin is different then gold in that it's just data, and bitcoin wallets can be stored on any computer. The word "crypto" means hidden.  You might be able to hide a bar or two of gold, but you can't hide a mountain of it.  A million dollars worth of BTC can be stored on a USB stick or memory card. Or a printed QR code.  The amount of data needed is so small you could memorize it

The government can pass all the laws it wants.  It can't change mathematics.

+1,very simple & good "explanation"  

There are only 2 things ANYONE can control,exchanges & pools.Everything else can still continue as it is,unless as stated they try 51%'ing,highly doubt they would take the effort & money to do this........

I wonder if pool mining can be done through something like TOR

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it (and no exchange to sell or trade it on either) so then what's the point.  

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American, and then just months later used the scheme to steal 69% of all US citizens' wealth - the largest wealth transfer in the history of the world, well, until they steal what should be doesn't of trilions and probably closer to 90% of the global wealth with the next digital currency scheme (80+ years of savings robbed overnight - no more budget problems for the entire western world - thank you very much, idiots who thought the government didn't have the power to control a video game play pretend currency).

And just like with the Gold theft, by the time everyone realizes it - it's gonna be too late to do anything about it.  But if you see it ahead of time you can actually profit from any govt scheme.  

Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed in the first place.

[bcp19]

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it so then what's the point.

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American.  Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed.

Gold was 'criminalized' due to the GOLD STANDARD.  Many bills in the 1920's had the words "This certifies that there have been deposited into the treasury of the United States of America XX dollars in gold coin payable to the bearer upon demand".  No new currency could be printed unless it was to replace worn out bills or more gold was put into the treasury.  Since the US dollar is not backed by Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to 'criminalize' it as was done to Gold.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it so then what's the point.

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American.  Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed.

Gold was 'criminalized' due to the GOLD STANDARD.  Many bills in the 1920's had the words "This certifies that there have been deposited into the treasury of the United States of America XX dollars in gold coin payable to the bearer upon demand".  No new currency could be printed unless it was to replace worn out bills or more gold was put into the treasury.  Since the US dollar is not backed by Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to 'criminalize' it as was done to Gold.

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

[k9quaint]

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it so then what's the point.

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American.  Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed.

Gold was 'criminalized' due to the GOLD STANDARD.  Many bills in the 1920's had the words "This certifies that there have been deposited into the treasury of the United States of America XX dollars in gold coin payable to the bearer upon demand".  No new currency could be printed unless it was to replace worn out bills or more gold was put into the treasury.  Since the US dollar is not backed by Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to 'criminalize' it as was done to Gold.

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Gold is a shiny metal. It is not the sum of the output of the economy of the United States. If you like though, you can still put all your savings in it and feel safe.
Right now, US currency is backed by nukes and drone strikes. I'd rather have nukes and drone strikes to make sure I get paid than a shiny metal.

But this has little to do with BFL's shiny new photoshop rendition of a video card meant to represent a bitcoin mining device of the far distant future.

[DrJoeGrine]

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it so then what's the point.

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American.  Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed.

Gold was 'criminalized' due to the GOLD STANDARD.  Many bills in the 1920's had the words "This certifies that there have been deposited into the treasury of the United States of America XX dollars in gold coin payable to the bearer upon demand".  No new currency could be printed unless it was to replace worn out bills or more gold was put into the treasury.  Since the US dollar is not backed by Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to 'criminalize' it as was done to Gold.

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Then why are you here? Do you have bitcoin orders with anyone? Own any bitcoin? If you fear all that you have posted I recommend clearing your cookies and get out of bitcoin. You might also want to invest in a lot of tinfoil as well.

[bcp19]

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Nah, I didn't miss nothing.

Your math however leaves a lot to be desired.  The Government replaced $20 gold coins with a paper currency worth $20.  The Gold Reserve Act nationalize gold by ordering the federal reserve banks to  turn in over to the US treasury in exchange for gold certificates.  Since 'gold coins' were in actuality 90% gold and 10% copper the true price of an ounce of gold was $20.67 cents.  the price of gold was then changed from $20.67 to $35, DEVALUING the US dollar by 40%.  There's no 70% dude.

Again, I state... the US dollar used to be BACKED by Gold, and rather than leave the gold out in circulation it was rounded up and paper currency distributed.

The US dollar never has been and never will be backed by BTC, so your premise is therefore false.

[Vlad2Vlad]

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Nah, I didn't miss nothing.

Your math however leaves a lot to be desired.  The Government replaced $20 gold coins with a paper currency worth $20.  The Gold Reserve Act nationalize gold by ordering the federal reserve banks to  turn in over to the US treasury in exchange for gold certificates.  Since 'gold coins' were in actuality 90% gold and 10% copper the true price of an ounce of gold was $20.67 cents.  the price of gold was then changed from $20.67 to $35, DEVALUING the US dollar by 40%.  There's no 70% dude.

Again, I state... the US dollar used to be BACKED by Gold, and rather than leave the gold out in circulation it was rounded up and paper currency distributed.

The US dollar never has been and never will be backed by BTC, so your premise is therefore false.

Dude are you kidding me?

First I never said the dollar will be backed by another worthless fiat, that's absurd.  I'm saying the dollar, Euro, Yen. Etc will be replaced by an alt coin like Bitcoin or Perhaps bitcoin itself.

And where do you get 40% from?  This is effing 2nd grade math dude and you actually have the balls to sound sarcastic about my math leaving a lot to be desired?  Lol.

You don't even need a calculator to see how wrong you are.  What's 40% of $20?  Easy, right, about $8 and change.  What's $8 plus $20?  It's less than $35, right? 

What's 100% of $20 or a double?  Oh, $40, right?

So without ever doing any real complex calculations like multiplication and division we know your 40% is close to $28 and a double or 100% of $20 is $40 so if gold went to $35 (from $20) then obviously the amount the government stole was much higher than 40%.

And why is the second part equally complicated?  If I come in your house and take 1,000 Bitcoins worth $100 a piece and give you paper worth $100.  And then in a few months I inflate or devalue that asset by 70% or even 40% without your consent or knowledge, but your paper cannot change with the new price hence all of your savings is now worth 70% (or 40%) less (overnight) then how is that normal in any way or not stealing?

Dude, Russia, Romania, Germany and many other countries did the same exact thing only they announced a new currency overnight which had the same theft and devaluation effect. 

So even if it were 40%, it doesn't shock you one bit that the government cleverly literally stole (via intentional devaluation) nearly half of the life savings of all Americans?

You make it sound like it's somehow normal just cause we were on the gold standard.  Criminalizing gold and then intentionally devaluing it by a massive amount was not part of any plan which anyone was aware of.

And this bitcoin, alt coin currency craze smells a lot like the same plan only they can steal out life savings without ever leaving Washington, from the comfort of their laptops.  It's gonna be a cake walk compared to the gold theft of 1934.

Americans really know almost nothing of their own history. No wonder you're in for the massive hopeless change (you voted for) coming your way very soon.  You guys have no idea what's coming, do you?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Are you guys serious?  They were putting people in prison for downloading 4 songs.

You guys really think people would download an illegal currency and risk going to prison for a decade, much like counterfeiting dollars today?   You must be joking.

And again, even if you decided to take that chance nobody would accept it so then what's the point.

So you guys get the US criminalized GOLD in 1934 and stole it from every American.  Stealing Bitcoin by comparison is gonna be a cake walk.  That's presuming Bitcoin wasn't launched by the fed.

Gold was 'criminalized' due to the GOLD STANDARD.  Many bills in the 1920's had the words "This certifies that there have been deposited into the treasury of the United States of America XX dollars in gold coin payable to the bearer upon demand".  No new currency could be printed unless it was to replace worn out bills or more gold was put into the treasury.  Since the US dollar is not backed by Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to 'criminalize' it as was done to Gold.

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Then why are you here? Do you have bitcoin orders with anyone? Own any bitcoin? If you fear all that you have posted I recommend clearing your cookies and get out of bitcoin. You might also want to invest in a lot of tinfoil as well.

Because just like you could have made a fortune on gold and real assets had you known about the govt scam in 1934, I predict the govt and banks will juice Bitcoin and most other alt coins (there's still $9 trillion missing from the Fed which nobody can find - what can the govt be doing with that much money OFF THE BOOKS?) That includes a Bitcoin ETF Which should easily push the bitcoin price over $1,000 and create a global mass hysteria so much so that the majority of the population will actually ask for their money to be replaced by virtual money, not seeing that they're being played just like the fools in 1934 who handed over real gold for worthless paper fiat.

You can make millions if you position yourself right (the real money will be other various alt coins) and don't sell too early (wait for the craze to be in full swing, wait for the widows and orphans to buy and mine bitcoin and alt coins) but don't hold too long and once you sell don't stay in cash but rather buy any real assets you can get your hands on.....and get the hell out of Dodge.

Good luck!

[vesperwillow]

I think Vlad and I have a lot in common aside from mining.

For what it's worth, the govt can do anything it wants though, along the lines mentioned, forealsies. It's against the most basic ancient-human form of exchange: Bartering. Anyone who thinks it would let a type of goods-payment-exchange stand when it doesn't want it to stand, is silly.

Whenever the world banks decide to stop using the USD as the basis for everything, you'll see something happen, and suddenly they'll be like "oh snap the USD really is better, what were we thinking".

It's just how it's done. Like what someone said previously, it's not backed by anything legit, except nukes and the willingness to fight over the matter.

And, sidebar, it wouldn't take much for them to turn on heavy hashing power if for some reason they wanted to. Remember, these are the folks who purchased like 2,200 PS3's just for the computing power. If they want to buy all the 28nm asic chips available, they'll do that too.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I think Vlad and I have a lot in common aside from mining.

For what it's worth, the govt can do anything it wants though, along the lines mentioned, forealsies. It's against the most basic ancient-human form of exchange: Bartering. Anyone who thinks it would let a type of goods-payment-exchange stand when it doesn't want it to stand, is silly.

Whenever the world banks decide to stop using the USD as the basis for everything, you'll see something happen, and suddenly they'll be like "oh snap the USD really is better, what were we thinking".

It's just how it's done. Like what someone said previously, it's not backed by anything legit, except nukes and the willingness to fight over the matter.

And, sidebar, it wouldn't take much for them to turn on heavy hashing power if for some reason they wanted to. Remember, these are the folks who purchased like 2,200 PS3's just for the computing power. If they want to buy all the 28nm asic chips available, they'll do that too.

Thank you, a rational person.

They won't even have to mine anything.

I think the plan is as follows.:

Banks and govt will support bitcoin but stay out of it for the most part to allow for quick mass adoption and allow the free market to absorb all the costs and fast forward improvements towards an ideal coin and roll-out of the entire industry.  It would take the govt 10 years what free market and greed can do in 2 years.

Get the media involved and hype the crap out of it so it becomes a mass global phenomenon - not the 1% we have now.  Think closer to 50%.  Thars why I think Bitcoin will easily get its ETF and then easily blow past $1,000 next year and go much higher after that.

Once people are foaming at the mouth and are ready to switch their real paper fiat for imaginary fiat you create an event where multiple countries need to switch. 

You do the switch and once everyone's life and wealth is on a digital chip you've got them by the balls.  At this pint the govt can site some bullshit concerns like National Security or terrorist theirs and so a hard fork and do anything they want cause they have all your Wealth in their database.

Once they have you and they do a hard fork - just like they literally gave told a much higher value of $35 from $20, they'll simply say:  yeah, 21 million coins aren't enough for the whole planet - we're gonna do 100 million, and BAM, your wealth, your savings just got destroyed a la 1935.

That's the plan I just don't know the timeline but I think it's gonna go fast, like in 2 years we'll see a global foaming at the mouth alt coin frenzy.  But it should really start Exploding early next year and I suspect the spark will be the bitcoin ETF followed by a huge price spike to over $1,000 followed by one or more emerging market country like Indonesia switching their entire currency to bitcoin to keep the dollar from destroying their currency completely.

Once 1 country switches over to Bitcoin or any other alt coin it's gonna be obvious to everyone what's going on and the price of bitcoin at that point can easily go to at least $10,000.

[bcp19]

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Nah, I didn't miss nothing.

Your math however leaves a lot to be desired.  The Government replaced $20 gold coins with a paper currency worth $20.  The Gold Reserve Act nationalize gold by ordering the federal reserve banks to  turn in over to the US treasury in exchange for gold certificates.  Since 'gold coins' were in actuality 90% gold and 10% copper the true price of an ounce of gold was $20.67 cents.  the price of gold was then changed from $20.67 to $35, DEVALUING the US dollar by 40%.  There's no 70% dude.

Again, I state... the US dollar used to be BACKED by Gold, and rather than leave the gold out in circulation it was rounded up and paper currency distributed.

The US dollar never has been and never will be backed by BTC, so your premise is therefore false.

Dude are you kidding me?

First I never said the dollar will be backed by another worthless fiat, that's absurd.  I'm saying the dollar, Euro, Yen. Etc will be replaced by an alt coin like Bitcoin or Perhaps bitcoin itself.

And where do you get 40% from?  This is effing 2nd grade math dude and you actually have the balls to sound sarcastic about my math leaving a lot to be desired?  Lol.

You don't even need a calculator to see how wrong you are.  What's 40% of $20?  Easy, right, about $8 and change.  What's $8 plus $20?  It's less than $35, right? 

What's 100% of $20 or a double?  Oh, $40, right?

So without ever doing any real complex calculations like multiplication and division we know your 40% is close to $28 and a double or 100% of $20 is $40 so if gold went to $35 (from $20) then obviously the amount the government stole was much higher than 40%.

And why is the second part equally complicated?  If I come in your house and take 1,000 Bitcoins worth $100 a piece and give you paper worth $100.  And then in a few months I inflate or devalue that asset by 70% or even 40% without your consent or knowledge, but your paper cannot change with the new price hence all of your savings is now worth 70% (or 40%) less (overnight) then how is that normal in any way or not stealing?

Dude, Russia, Romania, Germany and many other countries did the same exact thing only they announced a new currency overnight which had the same theft and devaluation effect. 

So even if it were 40%, it doesn't shock you one bit that the government cleverly literally stole (via intentional devaluation) nearly half of the life savings of all Americans?

You make it sound like it's somehow normal just cause we were on the gold standard.  Criminalizing gold and then intentionally devaluing it by a massive amount was not part of any plan which anyone was aware of.

And this bitcoin, alt coin currency craze smells a lot like the same plan only they can steal out life savings without ever leaving Washington, from the comfort of their laptops.  It's gonna be a cake walk compared to the gold theft of 1934.

Americans really know almost nothing of their own history. No wonder you're in for the massive hopeless change (you voted for) coming your way very soon.  You guys have no idea what's coming, do you?

I'm the stupid one eh?  Devaluation is HARDLY second grade math.  1 ounce of gold = $20.67 then 1 ounce of gold became worth $35.  This means the dollar went from being 1/20.67 of an ounce of gold to 1/35th of an ounce of gold.  35*40% = 14... 35 - 14 = 21 ($20.67).  To put in another way, by devaluing the dollar by 40%, it became worth 60% of what it had been.  $20.67 / 60% = 34.45 or roughly $35.  Learn what is meant by the term devauled before you disparage people when the fault lies in your own poor math skills combined with a lack of understanding of the terms involved.

Now, you have to understand what the 'devaluation' of the dollar did.  Let's say a house costs $1000 before the devaluation of the dollar.  How much would that house cost after the devaluation of the dollar?  $1000.  The purchasing power of the dollar did not change, but the amount of dollars the government was able to put into circulation backed by gold was.  No actual harm came to the people, no savings were stolen, cost of living was unaffected, there was simply more currency in circulation.

You think you are being clever, but in reality you know nothing about what you are talking about and in the process are skewing facts into fiction to satisfy a baseless argument.

[Vlad2Vlad]

You missed the whole point.

Gold was criminalized because, much like today, the govt needed to greatly expand their monetary base but couldn't.   So they invented a scheme and once they stole all the gold they then literally wrote down a $35 price for gold instead of the $20 they gave people paper money for and just like that, in one day they transferred 69% of the wealth from the people to themselves.

Gold was criminalized to steal nearly 70% of the wealth of the people and it worked cause of people like you - the masses are sheeple who say:  that's not possible.  And they don't get it until after the fact.

Nah, I didn't miss nothing.

Your math however leaves a lot to be desired.  The Government replaced $20 gold coins with a paper currency worth $20.  The Gold Reserve Act nationalize gold by ordering the federal reserve banks to  turn in over to the US treasury in exchange for gold certificates.  Since 'gold coins' were in actuality 90% gold and 10% copper the true price of an ounce of gold was $20.67 cents.  the price of gold was then changed from $20.67 to $35, DEVALUING the US dollar by 40%.  There's no 70% dude.

Again, I state... the US dollar used to be BACKED by Gold, and rather than leave the gold out in circulation it was rounded up and paper currency distributed.

The US dollar never has been and never will be backed by BTC, so your premise is therefore false.

Dude are you kidding me?

First I never said the dollar will be backed by another worthless fiat, that's absurd.  I'm saying the dollar, Euro, Yen. Etc will be replaced by an alt coin like Bitcoin or Perhaps bitcoin itself.

And where do you get 40% from?  This is effing 2nd grade math dude and you actually have the balls to sound sarcastic about my math leaving a lot to be desired?  Lol.

You don't even need a calculator to see how wrong you are.  What's 40% of $20?  Easy, right, about $8 and change.  What's $8 plus $20?  It's less than $35, right?  

What's 100% of $20 or a double?  Oh, $40, right?

So without ever doing any real complex calculations like multiplication and division we know your 40% is close to $28 and a double or 100% of $20 is $40 so if gold went to $35 (from $20) then obviously the amount the government stole was much higher than 40%.

And why is the second part equally complicated?  If I come in your house and take 1,000 Bitcoins worth $100 a piece and give you paper worth $100.  And then in a few months I inflate or devalue that asset by 70% or even 40% without your consent or knowledge, but your paper cannot change with the new price hence all of your savings is now worth 70% (or 40%) less (overnight) then how is that normal in any way or not stealing?

Dude, Russia, Romania, Germany and many other countries did the same exact thing only they announced a new currency overnight which had the same theft and devaluation effect.  

So even if it were 40%, it doesn't shock you one bit that the government cleverly literally stole (via intentional devaluation) nearly half of the life savings of all Americans?

You make it sound like it's somehow normal just cause we were on the gold standard.  Criminalizing gold and then intentionally devaluing it by a massive amount was not part of any plan which anyone was aware of.

And this bitcoin, alt coin currency craze smells a lot like the same plan only they can steal out life savings without ever leaving Washington, from the comfort of their laptops.  It's gonna be a cake walk compared to the gold theft of 1934.

Americans really know almost nothing of their own history. No wonder you're in for the massive hopeless change (you voted for) coming your way very soon.  You guys have no idea what's coming, do you?

I'm the stupid one eh?  Devaluation is HARDLY second grade math.  1 ounce of gold = $20.67 then 1 ounce of gold became worth $35.  This means the dollar went from being 1/20.67 of an ounce of gold to 1/35th of an ounce of gold.  35*40% = 14... 35 - 14 = 21 ($20.67).  To put in another way, by devaluing the dollar by 40%, it became worth 60% of what it had been.  $20.67 / 60% = 34.45 or roughly $35.  Learn what is meant by the term devauled before you disparage people when the fault lies in your own poor math skills combined with a lack of understanding of the terms involved.

Now, you have to understand what the 'devaluation' of the dollar did.  Let's say a house costs $1000 before the devaluation of the dollar.  How much would that house cost after the devaluation of the dollar?  $1000.  The purchasing power of the dollar did not change, but the amount of dollars the government was able to put into circulation backed by gold was.  No actual harm came to the people, no savings were stolen, cost of living was unaffected, there was simply more currency in circulation.

You think you are being clever, but in reality you know nothing about what you are talking about and in the process are skewing facts into fiction to satisfy a baseless argument.

Point taken.

But you're missing an important fact.  I said savings for a reason.  Real Assets go up with inflation but as you know, back then most people kept their savings at home, in cash.  No bonds, very few bought stocks so most Americans, especially those who had saved their entire lives and had cash they DID LITERALLY lose 40% overnight.  And the same will happen with this bitcoin scheme.

That's why I said if you make a few million sell and don't keep the profits in cash cause that will get destroyed by closer to 70% this time because the government needs tens of trillions to get out of the hole they dug themselves in.

If you buy real assets, even stocks, which are real assets, once they devalue the new currency you'll stay at par or maybe even make some money - like the house example you gave.  But make no mistake, millions of people are in cash right now, whether in their IRA, 401K, in savings or under their mattress - there are tens of trillions of dollars sitting in cash and any cash will instantly lose that much value literally overnight before you have a chance to buy any assets.  This is an absolute fact - sorry, but not everybody can buy a house and many have a house and then lots of money in savings cause they don't trust stocks or they're too old to take that kind of risk.  There's 78 million baby boomers - God knows how much of their money is in cash.

And that's the money the govt will go after and nothing can stop them.  So buy any alt coins and hold them until the alt coin market gets frothy and then sell and buy any real assets and you should be ok unless the government goes on a confiscation binge which happened in many Eastern European countries which is why I said if you do make a few million to get out until the dust settles.

Thanks for the correction and good luck!

[Vlad2Vlad]

@bcp19,

What's your goal with alt coins?  

Which ones are you mining?

Are you buying or planning to buy (speculate) any other alt coin besides Bitcoin, if so which do you prefer?  

I'm trying to mine any coin I can and holding onto it and I've been accumulating 1% of ixCoin and also quite a few Devcoins as those 2 coins are my top 2 picks for the next Bitcoin 2.0, but it's nearly impossible to gauge or valuate these coins so I' going mostly off gut instinct and what I think will be the mentality of bankers and politicians if Bitcoin does get an ETF and the price of Bitcoin does go up past a ridiculous level, at least $1,000.

If you're mining are you buying ASICS and if so which ones?

Finally, where do you see Bitcoin in a year from now and what do you think the odds are Bitcoin will get the ETF license?

I am aware that most pros and wallstreet experts out there are laughing and saying Bitcoin will never get its own ETF but I'm certain they will get it based on what I think is really happening behind the scenes.

Thanks in advance!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I am aware that most pros and wallstreet experts out there are laughing and saying Bitcoin will never get its own ETF but I'm certain they will get it based on what I think is really happening behind the scenes.

I had a very interesting conversation with a Bitcoiner in-the-know in New York today, and I can confirm the above. There is a major, major (did I say major?) announcement due out within a couple weeks (not BFL weeks) that should no doubt increase the exchange rate significantly. I wish I can say more, but I won't, for if I did, the cat would be outta the bag as to who I spoke with, thus figuring out what's in stored. Needless to say, I'm bullish!

[Vlad2Vlad]

I am aware that most pros and wallstreet experts out there are laughing and saying Bitcoin will never get its own ETF but I'm certain they will get it based on what I think is really happening behind the scenes.

I had a very interesting conversation with a Bitcoiner in-the-know in New York today, and I can confirm the above. There is a major, major (did I say major?) announcement due out within a couple weeks (not BFL weeks) that should no doubt increase the exchange rate significantly. I wish I can say more, but I won't, for if I did, the cat would be outta the bag as to who I spoke with, thus figuring out what's in stored. Needless to say, I'm bullish!

I've been certain the ETF was a done deal from day one even when the pros were literally laughing on TV.

It fits with what the govt would want given their current situation and the precedents they've set before.

And yeah, once the ETF is announced many on wallstreet will be shocked and you'll see mad money speculate on the next Bitcoin while there will also be many millions accumulating Bitcoin as a spec play.

Needless to say - given an ETF is very liquid while Bitcoin itself and its exchanges are not we will see mad volatility but also an incredible run in Bitcoin's price and I predicted months ago that $1,000 will look cheap next year.

But the real story, the real money is to be made in the ultra cheap alt coins if you can figure out which ones will be the most popular with not just bankers but also the masses once retail investors see Bitcoin is for real and they'll go looking for Bitcoin 2.0 the way I have. 

I personally bought 1% of ixCoin just as a spec play and also over 20 million devcoins.  And there's millions of retail stock investors like me who don't know yet that alt coins are the real deal, they think they're a scam and the Bitcoin ETF will change that forever. 

As a result of hedge funds and mutual funds - and millions of speculative individual retail investors there will be a temporary but massive demand with a severe shortage in alt coins for about 12 months until tons of additional alt coins come to market and this massive demand should drive many slt coins to stupid levels but in particular a select few will make more than dell made in the 90's.

Cause it will not take a lot of money to get most alt coins to go up 10,000% and some much higher.

My timeline guess is that we'll see the ETF go live in the next 2-3 months and Bitcoin should make new ALL-time highs very soon after that.  But we could get positive news regarding the license in the next few weeks the way you feel.

[bcp19]

@bcp19,

What's your goal with alt coins?    

Which ones are you mining?

Are you buying or planning to buy (speculate) any other alt coin besides Bitcoin, if so which do you prefer?  

I'm trying to mine any coin I can and holding onto it and I've been accumulating 1% of ixCoin and also quite a few Devcoins as those 2 coins are my top 2 picks for the next Bitcoin 2.0, but it's nearly impossible to gauge or valuate these coins so I' going mostly off gut instinct and what I think will be the mentality of bankers and politicians if Bitcoin does get an ETF and the price of Bitcoin does go up past a ridiculous level, at least $1,000.

If you're mining are you buying ASICS and if so which ones?

Finally, where do you see Bitcoin in a year from now and what do you hunk the odds are Bitcoin will get the ETF license?

I am aware that most pros and wallstreet experts out there are laughing and saying Bitcoin will never get its own ETF but I'm certain they will get it based on what I think is really happening behind the scenes.

Thanks in advance!

1) At the moment I have sold all altcoins.  I felt uneasy Monday looking at the market and divested all my altcoins for BTC.  Turned out to be a good hunch.

2) XPM, and LTC/FTC depending on coinpolice profitability.

3) I probably won't buy any altcoins for a while.  The near future is uncertain.  The coins I mine I will hold for now.  If I were to look at 1 or 2, LTC would be #1.  While I like the concept behind XPM, it's hard to judge it.  Too many alts can be destroyed by the Devs from their premines when they tired of dealing with them or the price gets to be 'right'.

4) I preordered a Jalapeno in June.  I read all of the FPGA threads as well as the others before deciding.  It's mote novelty to me than investment.

5) I have not researched the ETF so have no comment.  In a years time I see bitcoin at $200 or higher as people refuse to sell cheaper in an attempt to recoup RoI.  Unfortunately I see Difficulty well above 1 billion by that point.

On the savings, I respectfully disagree.  While the 'purchasing power' of gold increased 'overnight' the savings of people remained what it was.  The only true effect that devaluation would have had would be for foreign purchases from another country on the gold standard.  Let's say England had gold at 15 pounds/ounce.  This means that it would cost you $35 for 15 pounds when it used to cost you $20.67.  Since the majority of people at that time did not travel abroad, it did not affect them.

So, if I had $1000 sitting under my bed before, I could purchase that $1000 house.  That same $1000 after would still buy that $1000 house.  If I were buying with gold though, I could buy that $1000 house for 48.38 ounces of gold beforehand, and 28.57 ounces after.

When the dollar got devalued, everything based on the dollar was also devalued.  So only by purchasing gold would you have less after the devaluation happened.  Everything else would have been unchanged.

I'm too tired to understand the rest of your post, I'll look at it tomorrow.

[Bicknellski]

Boycott the crap. It will never make it to market in time to be effective if ever. BFL should be ignored.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Boycott the crap. It will never make it to market in time to be effective if ever. BFL should be ignored.

Wish I could.  They're still the largest ASICS maker for Bitcoin and I have units on backorder.  Hopefully I'll get them in time.

[PuertoLibre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyemAwLD2N0

Gold Gone? Germany baffled as Fed bars access to bullion

=====================

Goldman Sachs: John Corzine (212)902-8281

Merrill Lynch: David Kamanski (212)449-6868

Bank of America: David Coulter (415)622-2255

Citibank: John Reed (212)559-2732

Chase Manhattan: Walter Shipley (212)270-1380

THE CONFIDENTIAL MEMO AT THE HEART OF THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS

Source: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo