-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[k9quaint]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

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[Vlad2Vlad]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs.  He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet.  He's not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term.  And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here.

He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin.  If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider.  And in that regard he is right.  But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off.  

His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund.  That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer.

[Bicknellski]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs.  He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet.  Hes not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term.  And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here.

He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin.  If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider.  And in that regard he is right.  But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off.  

His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund.  That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer.

Here is the right approach cutting through everything and getting right to the point.

Put BFL out of business and rid the community of this huge drag on bitcoin economy. They are not too big to fail.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs.  He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet.  Hes not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term.  And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here.

He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin.  If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider.  And in that regard he is right.  But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off.  

His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund.  That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer.

Here is the right approach cutting through everything and getting right to the point.

Put BFL out of business and rid the community of this huge drag on bitcoin economy. They are not too big to fail.

Lol.  Unless BFL does something to drastically change their approach and attitude towards customers the free market will put them out of business next year. 

[Temuujin]

Simply put, you would think BFL wised-up by now. 

[Bicknellski]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs.  He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet.  Hes not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term.  And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here.

He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin.  If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider.  And in that regard he is right.  But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off.  

His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund.  That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer.

Here is the right approach cutting through everything and getting right to the point.

Put BFL out of business and rid the community of this huge drag on bitcoin economy. They are not too big to fail.

Lol.  Unless BFL does something to drastically change their approach and attitude towards customers the free market will put them out of business next year. 

Feel free to give them a nudge a push or shove... the FTC and AG are waiting for your complaint.

BFL = Shady.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BFL = Shady

[k9quaint]

You don't have to upgrade to a monarch. You can get a full refund from BFL!

If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[Bicknellski]

BFL = Shady

[Cluster2k]

"they're", not their.

[ScaryHash]

The red flag is BFL itself.

Pics of it hashing, and maybe it would be worth considering.

Otherwise, it's just VaporWare(TM).

[Bicknellski]

"they're", not their.

Not my card. I will let the creator know... thank you grammar Nazi.

[bcp19]

Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.

I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.  You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers.

In truth, no, I have never been ripped off in any large scale.  I may have loaned someone $20 and never got it back, but I really don't think that qualifies as a scam.  Now, I have been lied to, you cannot avoid that unless you live in a bubble and never talk to another soul.  In my opinion, I think you are looking at it backwards.  It's the people that HAVE been ripped off at some point in the past who are so upset about this.  Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me.  I'm sure I have received my fair share of "I have seached and found you as a relative of XXX and YYY who passed away and left $21,000,000 in the bank.  Please reply with the following information to claim your inheritance".  That sure looks too good to be true... pass. 

Who knows, maybe I *am* the fool for passing on hundreds of million os dollars monthly.

[Street Jammer]

Order now and loose money now

[Vlad2Vlad]

For sure, I would not upgrade to a monarch until I got gen 1 units in my hands.

But some people are in a real dilemma.  Like say you're a feb-aug 2013 mini rig or singles guy.  They're still stuck on June last year and barely moving so you're looking at march before you get your gear.  So basically anyone who ordered a mini rig or a single this year thinks rayed be better off then swapping their gen one for gen 2 and nearly tripling their hash power and they'd still end up getting their gen 2 at the same time if not sooner.

Of course, the risk is that BFL is gonna do the same thing they've done all this time and keep moving the time-line out until June 2014 hits.  That would be a huge mistake and if that happens I think they're gonna fold cause there's sure to be lawsuits at that point and at least 2-4 real competitors shipping real gen 2 ASICS.

[k9quaint]

For sure, I would not upgrade to a monarch until I got gen 1 units in my hands.

But some people are in a real dilemma.  Like say you're a feb-aug 2013 mini rig or singles guy.

Get a refund. 

 They're still stuck on June last year and barely moving so you're looking at march before you get your gear.  

Get a refund. 

So basically anyone who ordered a mini rig or a single this year thinks rayed be better off then swapping their gen one for gen 2 and nearly tripling their hash power and they'd still end up getting their gen 2 at the same time if not sooner.

That is why they should get a refund. 

Of course, the risk is that BFL is gonna do the same thing they've done all this time and keep moving the time-line out until June 2014 hits.  That would be a huge mistake and if that happens I think they're gonna fold cause there's sure to be lawsuits at that point and at least 2-4 real competitors shipping real gen 2 ASICS.

If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[smoothie]

I look at BFL's Monarch card as the following statement in their own mind:

"We need to get a piece of the pie that all other ASIC vendors are trying to get so let's slap a photoshopped image together post it on our website and put a nice price and date of delivery on it and the customers are surely to come to us and not our competition. Did I mention we still need to spam google ads still?"

Anyone buying this card will likely lose money on their investment (in BTC terms).

[Bicknellski]

I look at BFL's Monarch card as the following statement in their own mind:

"We need to get a piece of the pie that all other ASIC vendors are trying to get so let's slap a photoshopped image together post it on our website and put a nice price and date of delivery on it and the customers are surely to come to us and not our competition. Did I mention we still need to spam google ads still?"

Anyone buying this card will likely lose money on their investment (in BTC terms).

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that most customers of BFL at this point are going to lose money considering they can't easily get refunds and switch to a competitor, nor have most of the customers received their products to mine with? Love to see that infographic.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that most customers of BFL at this point are going to lose money considering they can't easily get refunds and switch to a competitor, nor have most of the customers received their products to mine with? Love to see that infographic.

Denial is a powerful thing.  Customers who contact FTC or Attorney General have a reasonable chance of getting their money back.  It is a pretty open and shut case.  Under UCC a "sale" is when customer is shipped the product in exchange for payment (or promise to pay -aka purchase order).   For customers which haven't received any goods no "sale" has occured.  BFL is perfectly within their right to state "all sales are final" however it is meaningless since sales haven't occurred. 

 Those that do it early are more likely to recover funds as initially it is in BFL interest to make the refund to close the case with FTC as they have no leg to stand on.  As more and more requests pile up though BFL won't have an option as they will reach a point where the amount requested to be refunded is more than they can pay.  So act early and decisively.  Of course that requires the customer to accept reality that they already are a victim looking at a significant loss and their only realistic option to make a recovery is via legal action.  Like I said denial is a hard thing and BFL has that card perfectly. If in Oct 2012 they told people most customer won't get their gear until Oct 2013 the pot would have boiled over,  instead they just stringed customers along making promises that they knew were false, to give customers enough hope that they didn't pursue other options.

[Bicknellski]

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that most customers of BFL at this point are going to lose money considering they can't easily get refunds and switch to a competitor, nor have most of the customers received their products to mine with? Love to see that infographic.

Denial is a powerful thing.  Customers who contact FTC or Attorney General have a reasonable chance of getting their money back.  Those that do it early are more likely (as BFL have simply agree to refund to close the issue).  Of course that requires the customer to accept reality that they have already been scammed and their only option to make a recovery is via legal action.  Like I said denial is a hard thing and BFL has played it smart.  If in Oct 2012 they told people most customer won't get their gear until Oct 2013 people would have taken action possibly even funded some lawyers and gone for a class action.  They stringed customers along with just enough hope to keep the pot from boiling over.

There is a cliff face at some point. Be it for the customer or BFL either way this will be in a courtroom.