-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[Threader]

Wish I could attend so I could do this when incubus opens his pie hole

[Xian01]

Wish I could attend so I could do this when incubus opens his pie hole
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bush-ducking.gif

 I'm almost tempted to make an offer of 5 BTC to anyone who attends the conference and re-creates this video with the shoe-target being our favorite COO. 10 BTC if the shoe connects ! ^*

 Furthermore, curious about the subject of his talk. "How to provide excellent customer service" ? "Effective scheduling and time management" ? "How to run a successful ASIC manufacturing enterprise" ? "How not to be a monumental asshole" ?

 I mean, he just knows so much !

* This offer is not available in your area

[Tehfiend]

Wish I could attend so I could do this when incubus opens his pie hole

The guy's gotta have major balls to show his face in public. It would take all of my will power not to spit in his face...

[Inaba]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetToughGuy

[Vlad2Vlad]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetToughGuy

Internet Tough Guy

Look, the troll came out of his basement to see what fresh blood to suck out of unsuspecting new customers.

Welcome, sir Troll-a-lot.

Are you ready for a class action?  Are you ready for a little prison time?

[Xian01]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetToughGuy
Internet Tough Guy

Look, the troll came out of his basement to see what fresh blood to suck out of unsuspecting new customers.
Welcome, sir Troll-a-lot.
Are you ready for a class action?  Are you ready for a little prison time?

 Joshua Zerlan, COO of Butterfly Labs, continues winning the hearts and minds of this community !

[Threader]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetToughGuy

Don't worry my shoes are too good to throw at the likes of you.

I'd sooner throw that worthless Jala you shipped 9 months late to me. At least that would be justice if it hit its mark.

Timely delivery.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Internet tough-guy - just like the Heroes at BFL hiding behind CGI vaporware and an old lady for the past 2 years.

Josh the Troll, I'm gonna make you a promise.   God help you and that con, Sonny, if I ever make any real money in these Cryptos.  There's a legion of angry men out here whom you have personally robbed and at whose expense you have unjustly enriched yourselves and there's nothing more these men would love than to see you and Sonny sobbing in court as you try to lie your way to freedom.

Cause if I do get enough money I will do anything in my power to assemble the finest class action suit this industry has ever seen.  And I don't know about everyone else, but I have kept all the wonderful emails and even the screenshots from BFL chat where you and gang repeatedly insult and lie to your customers, over and over and over again.

Winning a civil suit wouldn't be that hard - but I would go for Prison time, cause you and Sonny deserve some alone time with Bubba and Tyrone.  

[erk]

Internet tough-guy - just like the Heroes at BFL hiding behind CGI vaporware and an old lady for the past 2 years.

Josh the Troll, I'm gonna make you a promise.   God help you and that con, Sonny, if I ever make any real money in these Cryptos.  There's a legion of angry men out here whom you have personally robbed and at whose expense you have unjustly enriched yourselves and there's nothing more these men would love than to see you and Sonny sobbing in court as you try to lie your way to freedom.

Cause if I do get enough money I will do anything in my power to assemble the finest class action suit this industry has ever seen.  And I don't know about everyone else, but I have kept all the wonderful emails and even the screenshots from BFL chat where you and gang repeatedly insult and lie to your customers, over and over and over again.

Winning a civil suit wouldn't be that hard - but I would go for Prison time, cause you and Sonny deserve some alone time with Bubba and Tyrone.  

And what would be the grounds of this civil suit? A failure to supply the goods that were sold? Doesn't seem so, BFL are churning though their pre-orders, probably about only 25% of the speed they should be, but the bottom line is they are still getting though them. So I am curious as to what is the legal angle here you are claiming? Yes I know in the US you can sue for anything you can possibly think of in your wildest dreams, but lets keep it sensible.

[Threader]

Bernie looking for some new cellmates. He got some great investment schemes to delight josh & sonny with.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Internet tough-guy - just like the Heroes at BFL hiding behind CGI vaporware and an old lady for the past 2 years.

Josh the Troll, I'm gonna make you a promise.   God help you and that con, Sonny, if I ever make any real money in these Cryptos.  There's a legion of angry men out here whom you have personally robbed and at whose expense you have unjustly enriched yourselves and there's nothing more these men would love than to see you and Sonny sobbing in court as you try to lie your way to freedom.

Cause if I do get enough money I will do anything in my power to assemble the finest class action suit this industry has ever seen.  And I don't know about everyone else, but I have kept all the wonderful emails and even the screenshots from BFL chat where you and gang repeatedly insult and lie to your customers, over and over and over again.

Winning a civil suit wouldn't be that hard - but I would go for Prison time, cause you and Sonny deserve some alone time with Bubba and Tyrone.  

And what would be the grounds of this civil suit? A failure to supply the goods that were sold? Doesn't seem so, BFL are churning though their pre-orders, probably about only 25% of the speed they should be, but the bottom line is they are still getting though them. So I am curious as to what is the legal angle here you are claiming? Yes I know in the US you can sue for anything you can possibly think of in your wildest dreams, but lets keep it sensible.

How about holding people money against their will - extortion.  How about the millions lost by people as their money was locked up and they could not get a refund to buy ASICS which were shipping at the time.

There are lots of grounds for a civil suit - but it's the criminal I'm after.  And the awesome thing about federal charges and federal courts is that the proof doesn't have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The burden of proof is low enough that I think a conviction is possible for these thieving crooks.

[Cluster2k]

And what would be the grounds of this civil suit? A failure to supply the goods that were sold? Doesn't seem so, BFL are churning though their pre-orders, probably about only 25% of the speed they should be, but the bottom line is they are still getting though them. So I am curious as to what is the legal angle here you are claiming? Yes I know in the US you can sue for anything you can possibly think of in your wildest dreams, but lets keep it sensible.

You are correct that BFL is shipping products to customers.  BFL also never made predictions about being ready to ship products to end consumers in October 2012, November 2012, December 2012, January, February (swarm of locusts), March and April.  Those predictions about imminent shipping had no impact at all on potential customers deciding to order units that were time sensitive in their use.  BFL also never advertised a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 production mix that offered customers ordering that day to get units as they were produced.

Everyone loves a car analogy.  If you ordered a new car from a dealership that took your money on the day of order and then promised delivery within a week, but instead strung out the delivery to many months while the competition started to offer better deals, would you grin and bear it?  The dealership would also make you sign a statement that all sales are final and you just have to be patient and wait.

I don't have an open BFL order and will never make another.  

[dropt]

How about holding people money against their will - extortion.  How about the millions lost by people as their money was locked up and they could not get a refund to buy ASICS which were shipping at the time.

There are lots of grounds for a civil suit - but it's the criminal I'm after.  And the awesome thing about federal charges and federal courts is that the proof doesn't have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The burden of proof is low enough that I think a conviction is possible for these thieving crooks.

Be that as it may, you're most likely never going to see Josh or Sonny behind bars. They're protected by the corporation.

[Inaba]

And what would be the grounds of this civil suit? A failure to supply the goods that were sold? Doesn't seem so, BFL are churning though their pre-orders, probably about only 25% of the speed they should be, but the bottom line is they are still getting though them. So I am curious as to what is the legal angle here you are claiming? Yes I know in the US you can sue for anything you can possibly think of in your wildest dreams, but lets keep it sensible.

You are correct that BFL is shipping products to customers.  BFL also never made predictions about being ready to ship products to end consumers in October 2012, November 2012, December 2012, January, February (swarm of locusts), March and April.  Those predictions about imminent shipping had no impact at all on potential customers deciding to order units that were time sensitive in their use.  BFL also never advertised a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 production mix that offered customers ordering that day to get units as they were produced.

Everyone loves a car analogy.  If you ordered a new car from a dealership that took your money on the day of order and then promised delivery within a week, but instead strung out the delivery to many months while the competition started to offer better deals, would you grin and bear it?  The dealership would also make you sign a statement that all sales are final and you just have to be patient and wait.

I don't have an open BFL order and will never make another.  

To take your car analogy further, the dealer offered to refund your purchase price up until the time they actually started to manufacture your car.  So... if you "grin an bear it" you did it of your own volition, since you could easily have walked away at any time. Yes, BFL was late.  I've apologized for that numerous times. But the fact of the matter is, people could have elected to get a refund at any time up until we started to manufacture products in bulk and started to spend the pre-order money on product manufacturing.

How about holding people money against their will - extortion.  How about the millions lost by people as their money was locked up and they could not get a refund to buy ASICS which were shipping at the time.

There are lots of grounds for a civil suit - but it's the criminal I'm after.  And the awesome thing about federal charges and federal courts is that the proof doesn't have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The burden of proof is low enough that I think a conviction is possible for these thieving crooks.

Be that as it may, you're most likely never going to see Josh or Sonny behind bars. They're protected by the corporation.

You neglected to mention the fact that nothing illegal has transpired, either... but, we all know you can't tell the truth and are a consumate liar and troll, so that's not really surprising that you'd leave a relevant fact like that out.

[Puppet]

You neglected to mention the fact that nothing illegal has transpired

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:

the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

[Starlightbreaker]

To take your car analogy further, the dealer offered to refund your purchase price up until the time they actually started to manufacture your car.  So... if you "grin an bear it" you did it of your own volition, since you could easily have walked away at any time.

bullshit.

the dealer may have manufactured it, but somehow managed to create a new product line, yet the customer was offered to ditch the old one for the new one

so much for "manufacturing", huh?

[vesperwillow]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetToughGuy

The February issue is a classic, lots of collectors hold onto this one.

I'm glad to see Josh here; whether or not he's read the whole thread over time, I just like a good image jabbing.

Hopefully he'll stick around..

[donch]

To take your car analogy further, the dealer offered to refund your purchase price up until the time they actually started to manufacture your car.  So... if you "grin an bear it" you did it of your own volition, since you could easily have walked away at any time. Yes, BFL was late.  I've apologized for that numerous times. But the fact of the matter is, people could have elected to get a refund at any time up until we started to manufacture products in bulk and started to spend the pre-order money on product manufacturing.

If I bought a car in October 2012 and was in the middle of a long queue for that car and people at the front of the queue started receiving their cars in May 2013, but I didn't get mine until September 2013, I'd expect a refund up until the start of September. The argument that you bought all the parts in April 2013 for all the products that you had orders for is specious. Car manufacturers are smart and operate "just in time" supply chains, or "lean manufacturing" to use their parlance. Also the Toyota method. That is, they don't warehouse huge amounts of stock for all their orders. When the car enters the production line all the items for that car are ready, but nothing more.

If you really did order everything up front, then you are idiots. If you had confidence in your own products, you wouldn't worry about refunds, because you would know that you would be able to sell on your high quality goods to other buyers. The reality is that, at the end of April, you knew you had massively oversold a dud and outdated product that, if you continued refunds, you knew you'd never be able to sell.

Truth hurts. Stop lying.

[vesperwillow]

They likely ordered everything up front in order to get volume discounts--then lost money with some of the issues they faced. The lost time then cost them more money, and the time/backlog/money issue spiralled things further out of control. You'd need more people to overcome the backlog, but wouldn't be able to hire them due to lack of money. Just tossing in 2 cents of thought on that one.

Inaba, I won't be buying a BFL Monarch or any BFL product from you guys, but I am curious to know if you guys expect to have any delays/issues at all with rolling out the Monarch, whether similar to the ones experienced with previous products, or perhaps not as bad. I'm just super curious and part of my hobby is analysis of the entire cryptcoin revolution. You can PM me an answer if you want. As a disclaimer, I won't reveal your response (if any) to anyone.

I'm just a curious cat.

[donch]

They likely ordered everything up front in order to get volume discounts--then lost money with some of the issues they faced. The lost time then cost them more money, and the time/backlog/money issue spiralled things further out of control. You'd need more people to overcome the backlog, but wouldn't be able to hire them due to lack of money. Just tossing in 2 cents of thought on that one.

Their mistakes are well documented:

• Designing cases that were inadequate for ventilating the chips' heat output.
• Ordering PSU's that were unable to match the power requirements of their units.
• Designing cases and PCB's that require far too much human labour to assemble and test.

I'm sure there are more we don't know about. If they do have n thousand old Jalapeno cases sitting unused in their offices, then they are incompetent for designing and ordering a coffee warmer casing for a chip they didn't have a correct thermal simulation for.

Here's another bit of parlance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_off-the-shelf

The truth is by denying refunds they took no responsibility or penalty for their catalogue of mistakes. They did a bad job and still got the money. That's not a free, open and competitive market place.

They can't even get their ads right: