Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here?

[zedicus]

Zerlan's rants, demeaning his customers, shows that kind of contempt.
Yifu's statements lately have had the same underpinnings.

Or maybe we just get tired of whiny, entitled little brats screaming and crying for attention. I wonder which is more plausible.

 Yeah, going to have to say that we should allow to continue with various vendor hate around here until the vendors themselves start behaving in such a way that does not produce feelings of hate due to their own conduct.

 Chicken, egg, so on and so forth...

...and here's the same chicken(or egg) acknowledging through his actions that he still needs these forums to maintain his supply of fresh victims customers.

3 @ 7.75

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=284843.0;topicseen

I believe that bitcointalk.org administrators would gain instant respect by simply deleting or blocking that bid.

^^ Indeed! But clearly respect does not power this forum.

At one point there was a thread to raise btc so we could outbid a certain asic vendor and i believe it was posted in custom hardware but it got moved to the woodworks somewhere in the forum where nobody would see it..  (remember the "WARNING ads")

It wasn't theymos who moved it .. it was a mod if my memory serves me correctly but i may be mistaken. I cant believe i forgot the name of the guy who started the thread. He was someone who was ripped off by bitfloor during the first fiasco. ( ill remember eventually, he saved me from the second bitfloor fiasco when he was urging people to jump ship. )


Anyway .. the issue is how do we fund the this forum with regular advertising revenue, ala outbidding the scammers who clearly have used the freedoms in this forum to prey on bitcoin and participants.

Clearly if we were to replace the regular revenue stream im sure theymos wouldn't care if there were 0 ads on this forum as long as he got his.

Blaming theymos for trying to keep the lights on wont get anywhere.  


I think the forums biggest asset is its freedom of speech, we should preserve that and be an example to other community's. The trolling can be curtailed by adding a feature that after certain amount of ignores you get a temp ban from the thread.. Even if its 1 day or 2 days.. Maybe a known troll tag wouldn't hurt either.

Hate is just a feeling like love .. we cant have one without the other so its important to tread carefully.

To be honest i dont mind the contrast.. i love when people get intellectually muted and its always good to "listen" to opposing arguments as long as its constructive..

You know what they say... "If everyone is thinking the same then someone isn't thinking!"    


So moving forward lets find a way to power this forum with respect by eliminating the ability for asic vendors to prey on unsuspecting participant of bitcoin by plastering their ads all over the forums. Also if we could stop Asic vendors from creating multiple threads.

Every asic vendor should have a single thread for questions, comments, concerns & inquiry's. Maybe one other thread for support!

So max two threads for asic vendors!


Usually when vendors hear discontent from customers they try to oblige but here people are angry and throwing tomatoes and instead of catering to the issues the asic vendors just start a new thread! If they are quarantined to a two thread setup, one for general and one for support then they are a bit more obligated to deal with the issues then to let it boil and turn to hate!

Because once the hate machine start churning in a thread its likely to result in loss of customers.






 

[1714921513]

1714921513

[1714921513]

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[1714921513]

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[creativex]

...and here's the same chicken(or egg) acknowledging through his actions that he still needs these forums to maintain his supply of fresh victims customers.

3 @ 7.75

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=284843.0;topicseen
I believe that bitcointalk.org administrators would gain instant respect by simply deleting or blocking that bid.

 Won't happen until Theymos is removed as owner of these forums; not likely to happen any time soon.

 He's too busy playing Scrooge McDuck swimming in his piles of Bitcoins from all the advertising revenue Butterfly Labs has paid him. He's not going to kill his golden goose.

 Theymos is just as much of a problem as BFL, as far as these forums and community are concerned.

BFL's relevance is dwindling anyway(funny how garbage business practices do that). Josh's foaming at the mouth rants don't garner the same newbie adoration they once did. Knc and others are taking the lead on gobbling up ad space. Theymos can keep his pile of ill gotten gains AND do the right thing.

[DPoS]

Do what most other forums do.  Contain it to one thread.  When a poster makes post after post that follow closely the same line of conversation of another thread.  Close it and have the last response point to the other thread that is already covering that topic.

Moderators need to use their opinion as to whether the subject deserves a new topic or not.  But in this way, you are not removing what anyone is saying, you are simply consolidating where the conversation is happening into the proper thread. 

I agree, we don't need frothing BFL hate in a KnC thread, for example.

We also don't need frothing BFL love in there either

[DPoS]

[ANN] Tin foil group buy!

0.2 BTC per roll.

 brilliant.... well played

[2112]

Capitalism is the gathering of resources to accomplish a common purpose.  For example, people in a town may all chip in $500 to build and stock a dry goods store.
It may, or may not, have a separate profit motive.

You started with a tendentious quotation of my post, then followed with "capitalism is ..." and described some mixture of syndicalism and a cooperative. Writing like this would get you flunked out of pretty much any policical economy class. What are you trying to achieve?
 

Ripping people off is just psychopathic behavior, and it can occur in any economic system.

Yes, that is true. But you seem to be making an assumption than the "psychopathic behavior" is exclusively on the part of the "ripper-s". What about the "psychopathic behavior" of the "victim-s/rippee-s". This second case is probably the most common one here on this forum: in the role of the "ripper" we have "mathematics", "laws of physics", "random carelessness and inattention" and other ethically neutral mechanisms.

[2112]

Yes, so other people may be ignorant or ill-informed, especially those in the newbie forums. That doesn't give anyone an excuse to insult them, or otherwise hurl abuse. Leave them in peace, or gently show them the error of their ways and point them to a useful source of fact and/or considered opinion.

This. I am a newbie to bitcoin, been involved for a few months. When I first started posting here, a couple of people were extremely helpful, and a few were extremely abusive. I'm not in any way a newbie to fora, in fact they were called  electronic bulletin board services when I started with posting lo these several decades ago. As time passes, they seem to become less civil.

Heated discussion is one thing, newbie bashing is another. We all were a newbie at whatever it is we do at some point.

I agree with both of you that the default treatment for a newbie shouldn't be "bashing". But you can't allow yourselves to bunch all newbies into a single group, because there is a whole spectrum of newbie-tude.

I read a few of Biomech's earliest posts and I rate him "neutral", because he didn't start with trying to sell or organize something.

Now lets take a look at the extreme-positive rating: helveticoin, a wannabe vendor who is a well-prepared newbie.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=82676;sa=showPosts

Now lets focus on "sie": extremely negative newbie/wannabe-vendor in Bitcoin, but clearly claiming not to be a newbie in electronic design, fabrication, assembly, etc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148463;sa=showPosts

Again, you can't just put all newbies into a single "protected" group that by default gets a "kid gloves" treatment.

[Biomech]

Yes, so other people may be ignorant or ill-informed, especially those in the newbie forums. That doesn't give anyone an excuse to insult them, or otherwise hurl abuse. Leave them in peace, or gently show them the error of their ways and point them to a useful source of fact and/or considered opinion.

This. I am a newbie to bitcoin, been involved for a few months. When I first started posting here, a couple of people were extremely helpful, and a few were extremely abusive. I'm not in any way a newbie to fora, in fact they were called  electronic bulletin board services when I started with posting lo these several decades ago. As time passes, they seem to become less civil.

Heated discussion is one thing, newbie bashing is another. We all were a newbie at whatever it is we do at some point.

I agree with both of you that the default treatment for a newbie shouldn't be "bashing". But you can't allow yourselves to bunch all newbies into a single group, because there is a whole spectrum of newbie-tude.

I read a few of Biomech's earliest posts and I rate him "neutral", because he didn't start with trying to sell or organize something.

Now lets take a look at the extreme-positive rating: helveticoin, a wannabe vendor who is a well-prepared newbie.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=82676;sa=showPosts

Now lets focus on "sie": extremely negative newbie/wannabe-vendor in Bitcoin, but clearly claiming not to be a newbie in electronic design, fabrication, assembly, etc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148463;sa=showPosts

Again, you can't just put all newbies into a single "protected" group that by default gets a "kid gloves" treatment.

, hell, I can't even organize my life! But I agree with you in general. Some people just walk in with "kick me" plastered on their forehead.

In a totally unrelated matter, does your screen name refer to Rush's 2112? If so, there's a subject I've not been a newbie on since 1978

[2112]

In a totally unrelated matter, does your screen name refer to Rush's 2112? If so, there's a subject I've not been a newbie on since 1978

90125 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZqTueAaqU

[Syke]

Does anyone have any great ideas?

Tag the worst vendors as scammers and/or ban them.

As long as you permit these crap vendors to run amuk, there is going to be non-stop well-justified hate towards them.

Here's another example of BFL failing to meet deadlines and refusing refunds.

Unfortunately considering the lack of positive news on peoples refunds, I have not gone down that route.  My time is worth much more than calling BFL daily for nothing.

If some success actually happens in the community then my priorities will obviously change.

EDIT: No one should have to be in the position I am in right now.

[FUKT]

Capitalism is the gathering of resources to accomplish a common purpose.  For example, people in a town may all chip in $500 to build and stock a dry goods store.
It may, or may not, have a separate profit motive.

You started with a tendentious quotation of my post, then followed with "capitalism is ..." and described some mixture of syndicalism and a cooperative. Writing like this would get you flunked out of pretty much any policical economy class. What are you trying to achieve?
 

Ripping people off is just psychopathic behavior, and it can occur in any economic system.

Yes, that is true. But you seem to be making an assumption than the "psychopathic behavior" is exclusively on the part of the "ripper-s". What about the "psychopathic behavior" of the "victim-s/rippee-s". This second case is probably the most common one here on this forum: in the role of the "ripper" we have "mathematics", "laws of physics", "random carelessness and inattention" and other ethically neutral mechanisms.

This is the sort of post that represents a large portion of everything that is wrong with this forum and to a larger degree western/anglo forums. The usual tit for tat, my ego is greater than your ego, youre stupid and I'm smart. Notice the use of the word "You" in a almost accusatory role, this then creates tension and opens the door for further retorts etc. I'm sick of seeing posts that escalate from nothing to pages upon pages of arguing over the origins of M5 hex screws or some inane banal drivel. Try visiting a Chinese or nearly any other Asian technical forum and translate their conversations and you will be very surprised, its a lot different from Anglo forums where individual ego almost certainly outweigh collective common.

On another note, I dont have a problem with BFL advertising on this forum, the problem I have is that some people are clicking the links and actually ordering. BFL wouldnt be advertising if they didnt already know that they would get orders through that method.

[2112]

This is the sort of post that represents a large portion of everything that is wrong with this forum and to a larger degree western/anglo forums. The usual tit for tat, my ego is greater than your ego, youre stupid and I'm smart. Notice the use of the word "You" in a almost accusatory role, this then creates tension and opens the door for further retorts etc. I'm sick of seeing posts that escalate from nothing to pages upon pages of arguing over the origins of M5 hex screws or some inane banal drivel. Try visiting a Chinese or nearly any other Asian technical forum and translate their conversations and you will be very surprised, its a lot different from Anglo forums where individual ego almost certainly outweigh collective common.

On another note, I dont have a problem with BFL advertising on this forum, the problem I have is that some people are clicking the links and actually ordering. BFL wouldnt be advertising if they didnt already know that they would get orders through that method.

What you just wrote is just a truism in cultural studies: language mirrors the society in which it is used. In egalitarian societes direct communication prevails. In hierarchical societies the polite communication is the norm. You should really broaden your knowledge of non-western/non-anglo forums by looking at what's going on in the Russian/cyrillic forums or maybe some latin-alphabet/Central-Eastern European language forums like Romanian (and their representative for the English-speaking word: MPOE-PR). Or even better: jump into Hebrew/Israeli forums. Only then you can understand that the English way is actually the middle-of-the-road.

Vladimir actually tried to start a Bitcoin Disneyland forum on his own and foresworn visiting bitcointalk.org. Go see the forum.bitcoin.org.uk or wherever is his tumbleweed city.

Please feel free to follow his experiment; set up bitcoinu-talku.or.jp and practice your humble speech, polite language there. We'll see you back here in a year or two.

Edit: or if obtaining the knowledge in the linguistic way is too hard then do it the old way: volunteer for the military service or start competing in some group sports. That's the quickest way to develop some fortitude.

Edit2: be glad that BitcoinTalk doesn't attract women and especially Israeli women who served in the IDF. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

Edit3: on a second thought: a girl with a Sten is not the best illustration for my argument. Let me try using a men reading a poster on a wall: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashkvil

[Bicknellski]

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/04/154287476/honest-truth-about-why-we-lie-cheat-and-steal

On how our cashless economy may encourage cheaters

"The moment something is one step removed from money ... people can cheat more and [still] feel good about themselves. It basically relieves people from the moral shackles. And, the reason this worries me so much is because if you think about modern society, we are creating lots of cashless economy. We have electronic wallets, we have mortgage-backed securities, we have stock options, and could it be that all of those payment modalities that as they get more and more further from money become easier for us to cheat and be dishonest with them."


Some people are relieved of those moral shackles more easily than others it seems and that is where the angry mob of pitchfork wielding townies is coming from in this community and it is being directed squarely at those that are lying and cheating on fairly large scale. Freedom to lie is not freedom of speech. We all cheat... some just do it on grand scale and have Zero remorse and that is the problem here.


http://www.npr.org/2012/04/27/150818706/why-do-we-cheat

[creativex]

Thank you theymos. Take back any bad things I thought about you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=284843.msg3105242#msg3105242

[shapemaker]

Thank you theymos. Take back any bad things I thought about you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=284843.msg3105242#msg3105242

BFL just lost the auction since others outbid Josh. theymos didn't in any way indicate BFL shouldn't/couldn't bid on that, so nothing has changed in that regard.

Don't be so quick to say "all is well".

Funny to see Josh whine in that thread though

[creativex]

Dang. Yer rite, I got it stuck in my head there were 10 spots up for auction.

[mruiter]

Re: Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here?


YES

BFL sucks
BFL Josh = Assh....
BFL Jody = Conn Artist that blogs (ok but she at least tries...)

[creativex]

Don't forget Nasser's nonsensical posts lately. Minirig lines that aren't slowed down, but are delayed? He doesn't even seem to read Jody's blog before he waxes stoopit...it's unreal. BFL reps are like comic book villains that have had too much hemlock.

Safe to say as long as this scam is going on and people are being looted wholesale there will be plenty of anger directed at them.

[DyslexicZombei]

This is the sort of post that represents a large portion of everything that is wrong with this forum and to a larger degree western/anglo forums. The usual tit for tat, my ego is greater than your ego, youre stupid and I'm smart. Notice the use of the word "You" in a almost accusatory role, this then creates tension and opens the door for further retorts etc. I'm sick of seeing posts that escalate from nothing to pages upon pages of arguing over the origins of M5 hex screws or some inane banal drivel. Try visiting a Chinese or nearly any other Asian technical forum and translate their conversations and you will be very surprised, its a lot different from Anglo forums where individual ego almost certainly outweigh collective common.

On another note, I dont have a problem with BFL advertising on this forum, the problem I have is that some people are clicking the links and actually ordering. BFL wouldnt be advertising if they didnt already know that they would get orders through that method.

What you just wrote is just a truism in cultural studies: language mirrors the society in which it is used. In egalitarian societes direct communication prevails. In hierarchical societies the polite communication is the norm. You should really broaden your knowledge of non-western/non-anglo forums by looking at what's going on in the Russian/cyrillic forums or maybe some latin-alphabet/Central-Eastern European language forums like Romanian (and their representative for the English-speaking word: MPOE-PR). Or even better: jump into Hebrew/Israeli forums. Only then you can understand that the English way is actually the middle-of-the-road.

Fascinating! Thank you both for your cultural insights and contributions to what's turned into a deep and meaningful discussion.

As an amateur historian that is a product of East and West, and someone that lives at a junction of East and West: Hawaii, AKA Fortress Central Pacific (unofficial PACOM motto: "Ain't gonna be 'nother Pearl Harbor sneak attack on our watch") in a time where it has increasing geopolitical and strategic importance in any potential illogical showdown between China & the US in this century, I welcome insights such as this as I know and welcome the fact that I *don't* know everything and cannot possibly be an expert in *everything*. Human knowledge is just too broad and too deep for any one of us to be an expert in more then a handful of things. If you're semi-enlightened or even semi-aware of others, you value everyone's insights and welcome everyone's meaningful contributions.

I minored in linguistics in college as language & how it's used has always fascinated me; I hate to be simplistic but it truly can be used for Good or Evil (yet another concept that may simply be a human construct). As I don't speak any of those languages I truly appreciate your insight as seen through the rose tinted glasses of the host languages you mention. I speak Spanish (poorly) and also what linguists call HCE or Hawaii Creole English AKA Pidgin English; what would be considered it's own language or sub-language. An example you've probably heard stereotyped in shows like Hawaii 5-0: "Howzit, brah!" I slip into it and out of it easily and simply depending on who I'm talking to in the state of Hawaii. Another fun example: "You goin' stay or you stay goin'?"

HCE or Pidgin English came about because it was the Lingua franca of many different groups of migrants from around the world who came to Hawaii to seek their fortunes and send money home to the motherland. At this point in the 21st century, English is the Lingua fraca of the Western World and will remain so unless the current Chinese PM has his way (which could not be out of the realm of possibility, in a parallel universe; because I love a good alt. history story).

===========

I, for one, appreciate the free speech and wide latitude here. At least around here, no one cares much for the heavy hand of censorship. I feel that the venting and ribbing we see around here serve as a community service by simply *allowing* people to vent and joke about things, because to gripe and make fun of things is about as intrinsic to human nature as breathing. And let's be honest: some people have invested and lost tens of thousands of dollars (or more!). Ergo, they should be pissed off! My grandfather fought Nazis and Italians in WW2 as part of the 442nd Regiment of Japanese-American volunteers so that they *could* have the right to be pissed! Gramps carried around a .30 cal Browning automatic that was ripped out of a damaged airplane in Italy and later brought it with him to Southern France. Here's a little more about Grandpa: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ka8kp/iama_99_year_old_woman_who_helped_her_mother_make/cbn16qb

I truly don't think the young 'uns realize just how close run of a thing World War 2 really was; if we don't get really lucky at the Battles of: Britain (thankfully British engineers had the foresight to install Radar combined with the fact that Hitler was a terrible Strategist), Pearl Harbor (no carriers in harbor at attack; fuel bunkers otherwise untouched as well), and Midway (outnumbered but caught Japanese carriers with pants down (ordnance lying all over the deck) with JPN navy at it's peak strength and USN still at its ebb; Honolulu would have followed), the Free World may have had to have made peace with evil German or Japanese dictatorships in control of large swathes of the world and its populace. 50-60 MILLION people had to die around the world to defend freedom and we, their descendents in all countries, pay them a huge disrespect if we forget this. Although people in the Western World may see Chinese and Russians as potential enemies, I recognize and respect the huge losses Russia and China sustained in WW2. There's simply no way World War 2 is won without the manpower and contributions of both countries.

I'm delighted to be in a spacetime with such amazing opportunities - and pitfalls to be sure - that are afforded us for those that have the wherewithal and resources to invest in ventures such as Bitcoin, Bitcoin mining, and related hardware and businesses. I feel very, very fortunate to be along for the ride wherever this BTC protocol is going.

===

BTW, to bring it back On Topic, I'm running an interesting experiment with my small miner's co-op of 15 members where we all vote on major things; so far, so good! They voted to move our Baby Jet from a pro colo site in Missouri to a really, really good amateur colo site of a member in NY! I didn't even have to vote in either major vote we did and I tried to lay out the pros/cons of various hosting options as pragmatically as possible.

There's no way the paragraph above is even possible just five years ago because Bitcoin itself was still in Satoshi's brain whether that was one brain or several people's brains...and irony alert, as a product of an egalitarian society who's interested in linguistics, I'm completely aware of all the use of "I" and "You" throughout this post.  

Cheers mates!

[shapemaker]

Fascinating! Thank you both for your cultural insights and contributions to what's turned into a deep and meaningful discussion.

[...]

Cheers mates!

What is this I dont even...

A post with historical references, logical argumenting, linguistics, good grammar, even some humour. You even managed to tie in a larger reference with WW2, free world and how we stand on the shoulders of giants.

I must ask that the mods ban you for a week or so for daring to put so much sense in a single post

[DyslexicZombei]

Fascinating! Thank you both for your cultural insights and contributions to what's turned into a deep and meaningful discussion.

[...]

Cheers mates!

What is this I dont even...

A post with historical references, logical argumenting, linguistics, good grammar, even some humour. You even managed to tie in a larger reference with WW2, free world and how we stand on the shoulders of giants.

I must ask that the mods ban you for a week or so for daring to put so much sense in a single post

Hahhaah! Why, thank you.

With that said: I'm heading to the local sports bar soon to watch young men batter the crap out of each other for obscene amounts of money!    

I love sports and the strategy behind sports (I enjoy the coaching match behind the scenes in many sports). Interesting to note that Mayweather's fight game is 95% mental...much like BTC investing and ASIC pre-orders is 100% mental! I have no bet in this game, I'm just enjoying the chess match and fireworks.

If Rome is burning, I want a front row seat and a pocket full of BTC.

And popcorn.

Edit: I'll call it now: Canelo may have a puncher's chance and has a shot at flooring Mayweather for the first time in his career even if he doesn't win.  

9/15 update: Was right about the mental part as far as the fight; Failed as far as the outcome. Lesson: Great defense still beats good offense.