[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

[Stelios]

All current BitFunder users who are not United States persons or entities must supply the information required to obtain "Verified" status on their linked WeExchange account before November 1, 2013. Any such users who fail to provide the necessary information will not be able to enter into or sell positions on the BitFunder website as of November 1, 2013.

So basically, prove you're not US, or be treated as US.

[mgio]

This is really really bad. Neo Bee is already trading at well under IPO price on Bitfunder and I imagine it will continue to drop. I'm considering transferring to Havelock but most like I will sell before Havelock gets shut down too. This might just be the end of Bitcoin securities.

[mgio]

Any chance Neo & Bee will cancel the IPO and we can get our money back. A lot of investors are going to be very unhappy.

[fr33d0miz3r]

Any chance Neo & Bee will cancel the IPO and we can get our money back. A lot of investors are going to be very unhappy.

Nah. I'm still happy, because:

1. I'm not from US;
2. I'm a long term investor here. I'm interested in future dividends, not in the shares price;
3. I still want to be a part of something new and huge.

[Stelios]

Any chance Neo & Bee will cancel the IPO and we can get our money back. A lot of investors are going to be very unhappy.

Nah. I'm still happy, because:

1. I'm not from US;
2. I'm a long term investor here. I'm interested in future dividends, not in the shares price;
3. I still want to be a part of something new and huge.

Same here, In fact I just took the opportunity to buy some more

[klee]

Any chance Neo & Bee will cancel the IPO and we can get our money back. A lot of investors are going to be very unhappy.

Nah. I'm still happy, because:

1. I'm not from US;
2. I'm a long term investor here. I'm interested in future dividends, not in the shares price;
3. I still want to be a part of something new and huge.

Aren't the dividends calculated based on the shares price?

[pedrog]

Any chance Neo & Bee will cancel the IPO and we can get our money back. A lot of investors are going to be very unhappy.

Nah. I'm still happy, because:

1. I'm not from US;
2. I'm a long term investor here. I'm interested in future dividends, not in the shares price;
3. I still want to be a part of something new and huge.

I'm in the same boat, but there are a lot of investors in the USA, that's a lot of liquidity lost!

[fr33d0miz3r]

Aren't the dividends calculated based on the shares price?

Dividends are calculated based on the company profits.

[mgio]

How can I transfer shares to Havelock?

It says:

"How to Transfer Shares:
Simply push the amount of shares to the issuer account on the source exchange, then send an e-mail to tat.investments@gmail.com noting your account name on the destination exchange you have chosen. Please use the same e-mail address you have registered with the source exchange for verification purposes."

What is the name of the issuer account on bitfunder I have to push the shares to?

Also, how do I go about paying the 1 BTC fee? Who do I send it to?

[GreenBits]

wait.


everyone chill out and WAIT to see what the asset issuer is going to do about the matter. selling shares at a loss at this point is ill informed and premature. surely NEOBEE will have a contingency/ backup plan for this unforseen circumstance. im pretty sure the response is being carefully crafted at this time (unlike the announcement that initiated this shitstorm). surely they are aware of this.

Green

[ThickAsThieves]

wait.


everyone chill out and WAIT to see what the asset issuer is going to do about the matter. selling shares at a loss at this point is ill informed and premature. surely NEOBEE will have a contingency/ backup plan for this unforseen circumstance. im pretty sure the response is being carefully crafted at this time (unlike the announcement that initiated this shitstorm). surely they are aware of this.

Green

This. I need to have a meeting with Danny to discuss our next steps. Due to time zone differences we will need some time to sync up.

Generally speaking, the shares still represent what they always did. Choosing to sell at loss now is no different than before the announcements.

I will sync up with Danny on Wednesday hopefully, and we'll update everyone once we have confirmed how we are proceeding.

[N_S]

This. I need to have a meeting with Danny to discuss our next steps. Due to time zone differences we will need some time to sync up.

Generally speaking, the shares still represent what they always did. Choosing to sell at loss now is no different than before the announcements.

I will sync up with Danny on Wednesday hopefully, and we'll update everyone once we have confirmed how we are proceeding.

A nice calm, rational response void of any bold, over-sized font.

Thanks, TAT - look forward to the update.

[Choroid Plexus]

Damn, too bad about BitFunder. Amazing how not one but two major disruptions have now occurred during this IPVO!   Then again, after BTC-TC shuttered (presumably from SEC pressure) it seemed pretty within the realm of possibility that other exchanges would try to distance themselves from US customers. One would hope that TAT and cryptocyprus have held this in the back of their minds as well and have been at least thinking about different contingency plans if the need should arise.

Lots of NEOBEE panic selling right now on BitFunder, likely due to US customers quickly divesting. But this seems very premature. I hope TAT and/or cryptocyprus can tell us soon how they plan to proceed, I will look forward to their announcement. In the meantime, we can start discussing about the merits various contingency plans.

As I see it, converting BitFunder shares to Havelock shares for US persons (or just persons who wish to retain more anonymity), or migrating old BTC-TC shares to Havelock for these persons, seems somewhat unwise perhaps. Who's to say that Havelock won't be the next exchange to require that their customers prove they are not American? Perhaps there just isn't a safe haven right now. If migrating to Havelock *is* what TAT/cryptocyprus recommend for US persons or anonymity-conscious persons who don't wish to divest, perhaps the 1 BTC exchange transfer fee could at least be reduced or eliminated temporarily as these are unique circumstances.

Maybe the best solution right now would be to let people convert to direct shares though. I think this is a good solution for US persons or anonymity-conscious persons who think they'd like to hold onto shares more long-term. Direct shares do have the disadvantage of lower liquidity (as it's more cumbersome to sell them), but I think the direct shares probably can just be a holding pattern for now. In time, it should be possible to migrate these shares to newer, and better securities exchange systems when they are developed (like a distributed, coloured coin-based platform, for instance).

How about it, TAT and cryptocyprus? Can direct shares be another option for now? Anyone with shares on BitFunder would simply need to sign a message using their public BTC address in order to demonstrate ownership.

I guess on the positive side, all these troublesome developments are occurring before dividends have started to roll in. That would probably complicate matters a lot more. Let's hope we can arrive at a more permanent solution for share issuing before all the real fun begins.

[pedrog]

How can I transfer shares to Havelock?

It says:

"How to Transfer Shares:
Simply push the amount of shares to the issuer account on the source exchange, then send an e-mail to tat.investments@gmail.com noting your account name on the destination exchange you have chosen. Please use the same e-mail address you have registered with the source exchange for verification purposes."

What is the name of the issuer account on bitfunder I have to push the shares to?

Also, how do I go about paying the 1 BTC fee? Who do I send it to?

If it's because what is happening with Bitfunder:

We have discussed with our lawyers our situation and options for us to proceed in setting up Havelock as a long-term viable enterprise.  We are now pursuing these options, but cannot provide a firm time frame as of now.  We were hoping that we could be more specific but this is all the information we can provide at this time.

[cryptocyprus]

I am now awake, just waiting for TAT's return so we can make official announcements.

We had discussed contingency plans and have our own ideas that can again move Bitcoin onto another level of legitimacy.

[Luckybit]

Damn, too bad about BitFunder. Amazing how not one but two major disruptions have now occurred during this IPVO!   Then again, after BTC-TC shuttered (presumably from SEC pressure) it seemed pretty within the realm of possibility that other exchanges would try to distance themselves from US customers. One would hope that TAT and cryptocyprus have held this in the back of their minds as well and have been at least thinking about different contingency plans if the need should arise.

Lots of NEOBEE panic selling right now on BitFunder, likely due to US customers quickly divesting. But this seems very premature. I hope TAT and/or cryptocyprus can tell us soon how they plan to proceed, I will look forward to their announcement. In the meantime, we can start discussing about the merits various contingency plans.

As I see it, converting BitFunder shares to Havelock shares for US persons (or just persons who wish to retain more anonymity), or migrating old BTC-TC shares to Havelock for these persons, seems somewhat unwise perhaps. Who's to say that Havelock won't be the next exchange to require that their customers prove they are not American? Perhaps there just isn't a safe haven right now. If migrating to Havelock *is* what TAT/cryptocyprus recommend for US persons or anonymity-conscious persons who don't wish to divest, perhaps the 1 BTC exchange transfer fee could at least be reduced or eliminated temporarily as these are unique circumstances.

Maybe the best solution right now would be to let people convert to direct shares though. I think this is a good solution for US persons or anonymity-conscious persons who think they'd like to hold onto shares more long-term. Direct shares do have the disadvantage of lower liquidity (as it's more cumbersome to sell them), but I think the direct shares probably can just be a holding pattern for now. In time, it should be possible to migrate these shares to newer, and better securities exchange systems when they are developed (like a distributed, coloured coin-based platform, for instance).

How about it, TAT and cryptocyprus? Can direct shares be another option for now? Anyone with shares on BitFunder would simply need to sign a message using their public BTC address in order to demonstrate ownership.

I guess on the positive side, all these troublesome developments are occurring before dividends have started to roll in. That would probably complicate matters a lot more. Let's hope we can arrive at a more permanent solution for share issuing before all the real fun begins.

Converting shares to havelock wont help. Havelock and all centralized exchanges will be blocking US investors. US investors will have to go to direct shares and a decentralized exchange until crowdfunding law takes effect.

Bitcoin can be legitimate and a Bitcoin stock market can work if its part of the blockchain itself. Instead of people looking for the next point of failure exchange people should be looking at how to remove that point of failure using technology. Bitcoin would never have existed if people thought about how to regulate it before innovating. You innovate first and think about how to regulate it after you innovate.

Mastercoin seems to have the right idea. The blockchain itself has every necessary component to allow for issuing shares in a decentralized way. As long as the shares can be tracked to some digital signature nothing else is needed. Any exchange asking for your full name and address is probably doing that to try to block you if you're a US investor.  All any issuer needs is a Bitcoin address and a digital signature. Bitcoin itself allows for digital signing so the best idea is to get out of all centralized exchanges, it's over.

I will not buy any shares in anything until it's built into the blockchain.  I would buy shares in NeoBee. Out of every Bitcoin company out there I think NeoBee is the most important but I wont be able to trust anything like Bitcoinfunder so unless they will do direct shares, go decentralized via the mastercoin protocol, or wait for the SEC laws to take effect, I cannot invest.

[jedunnigan]

Converting shares to havelock wont help. Havelock and all centralized exchanges will be blocking US investors. US investors will have to go to direct shares and a decentralized exchange until crowdfunding law takes effect.

Bitcoin can be legitimate and a Bitcoin stock market can work if its part of the blockchain itself. Instead of people looking for the next point of failure exchange people should be looking at how to remove that point of failure using technology. Bitcoin would never have existed if people thought about how to regulate it before innovating. You innovate first and think about how to regulate it after you innovate.

Spot on!

Mastercoin seems to have the right idea. The blockchain itself has every necessary component to allow for issuing shares in a decentralized way. As long as the shares can be tracked to some digital signature nothing else is needed. Any exchange asking for your full name and address is probably doing that to try to block you if you're a US investor.  All any issuer needs is a Bitcoin address and a digital signature. Bitcoin itself allows for digital signing so the best idea is to get out of all centralized exchanges, it's over.

I will not buy any shares in anything until it's built into the blockchain.  I would buy shares in NeoBee. Out of every Bitcoin company out there I think NeoBee is the most important but I wont be able to trust anything like Bitcoinfunder so unless they will do direct shares, go decentralized via the mastercoin protocol, or wait for the SEC laws to take effect, I cannot invest.

I hear you on the decentralized exchange, but in this case it won't help the company issuing the shares skirt US laws. They would have to make sure that US custies couldn't get their hands on the shares. That will be near-impossible with decentralized exchange where the investors hold the shares themselves.

I am now awake, just waiting for TAT's return so we can make official announcements.

We had discussed contingency plans and have our own ideas that can again move Bitcoin onto another level of legitimacy.

Honestly you should host the exchange yourself, don't leave the fate of your stock in the hands of a 3rd party!

[grimholt]

Ok, so as the idiot I am I chose Bitfunder as my exchange. Since it's now going to hell, would it be possible to change my choice and send you a follow-up email with my Havelock information?

[wizzardTim]

Bitfunder drew gov's attention due to its heavy volume and lots of assets. I don't believe the same will happen to Havelock. The future may prove me wrong, but for the time being I think Havelock is the best option.

[drawingthesun]

US investors will have to go to direct shares and a decentralized exchange until crowdfunding law takes effect.

Considering that these Bitcoin based stock exchanges may soon be legal, I am sure they can continue to operate in the time before this law passes similar to what happened to the Citigroup merger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup#Citicorp_and_Travelers_merger

Of course a very good lawyer will have to pull it off, letting the system run for the future until its actually legal. Maybe this cannot be done...