Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[masterOfDisaster]

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

This might sound like a rant and maybe it is one... but at least I try to stay at the facts

Are you counting a broken turbo mode as minor bug (or is it one of the reasons for the new firmware?) or do you count the broken power save mode as minor bug? Or is it something else?

I'm just asking because the only mode that seems to work as advertized is the normal mode. Here's my "fail overview" (this list might not be exhaustive)

• Turbo mode: more hash rate, but so much more HW errors that it effectively hashes slower - fail!
  
• Power save mode: throttles the hash rate by 25% and the power consumption by 25% (resulting in still 1 J/GH instead of ~0.5 J/GH!) - fail!
  That is completely different from what was advertized!
  
• Not refunding people within 30 days after refund is requested (according to "terms of sale" 5.4) - fail!
  
• Not processing a refund but sending hardware instead - fail!
  
• Still not having learned how to treat paying customers - fail!

@bcmine receiving a miner instead of getting the refund processed is for sure something that one can complain about

I'm only not calling it a SCAM because I can (with a lot effort!) see at least some delivered hardware.
...although that doesn't work like advertized and one might say: take your miner back, because it is broken and deliver what I've ordered - or if you can't give me my money back!

[SwissMiner]

Not refunding people within 30 days after refund is requested (according to "terms of sale" 5.4) - fail!

.. this is a crime .. and should be treated as a crime  

[goningtbp]

March 30 I applied for a refund of the BTC, and I was told to return them within 30 days. But on April 23 I received a notice that my order "completed."

This notice no room for the tracking.
Also, I ordered 5 miners on 200GH/s, in the notice that says get four miner 200GH/s and one miner on 600GH/s, although in terms of protecting customers said that I should get 50% of the power to each Miner (five miners by 300GH/s).

[Wolke]

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

This might sound like a rant and maybe it is one... but at least I try to stay at the facts

Are you counting a broken turbo mode as minor bug (or is it one of the reasons for the new firmware?) or do you count the broken power save mode as minor bug? Or is it something else?

I'm just asking because the only mode that seems to work as advertized is the normal mode. Here's my "fail overview" (this list might not be exhaustive)

• Turbo mode: more hash rate, but so much more HW errors that it effectively hashes slower - fail!
  
• Power save mode: throttles the hash rate by 25% and the power consumption by 25% (resulting in still 1 J/GH instead of ~0.5 J/GH!) - fail!
  That is completely different from what was advertized!
  
• Not refunding people within 30 days after refund is requested (according to "terms of sale" 5.4) - fail!
  
• Not processing a refund but sending hardware instead - fail!
  
• Still not having learned how to treat paying customers - fail!

@bcmine receiving a miner instead of getting the refund processed is for sure something that one can complain about

I'm only not calling it a SCAM because I can (with a lot effort!) see at least some delivered hardware.
...although that doesn't work like advertized and one might say: take your miner back, because it is broken and deliver what I've ordered - or if you can't give me my money back!

wow -> you test the power safe mode ? -> realy ? -> i had no time for this test at the moment -> the mode don't work ? .....

[masterOfDisaster]

.. this is a crime .. and should be treated as a crime 

I wouldn't call it crime, but at least breach of a contract.

It is quite simple (disclaimer: I am no lawyer!):
Bitmine can tell the customers to keep with the "terms of service".
But the customers can as well tell Bitmine to keep with the "terms of service".
Basically everything that can be demanded from each other is in that part of the contract...

If one of the parties of a contract encounters problems with the other party in terms of contractual things, it might be good to get someone involved in that whose business it is to solve this kind of problems (I'm not speaking of the Mafia here, but a lawyer (maybe a special sport of Mafia, though... )

[masterOfDisaster]

wow -> you test the power safe mode ? -> realy ? -> i had no time for this test at the moment -> the mode don't work ? .....

Sure, because due to "late" delivery this piece of hardware will very soon cost more money (thanks to the steep rising difficulty, caused by idiots like us who spend money for purchasing hardware...) for powering it than it will generate as BTC (and please may no one tell me about future price of BTC. If I'd bet on that I could as well buy them at an exchange... If someone orders hardware one might expect to mine with it in an economical efficient way, right?)

Without the power save mode working as advertized you will - depending on your energy cost per kWh - soon have an expensive piece of crap.

From the product description of the Coincraft Desk:
"Hashing speed in power-save mode of 150 / 300 / 450 / 600 / 750 GH/s.
Hashing speed in turbo mode up to 300 / 600 / 900 / 1200 / 1500 GH/s.
Total maximum power usage in power-save mode of 80 / 160 / 240 / 320 / 400 W.
Total maximum power usage in turbo mode: 375 / 750 / 1125 / 1500 / 1875 W."

...which already is different from the product announcement:
"with power usage figures as low as 0.35 W/GH in low power mode"

But as this power usage is for the chip only and there's some more hardware that needs to be powered, I'd be fine with the values from the product description.
But 25% less power for 25% less hash rate doesn't meet the specs at all...

Looks like vastly overpromised and underdelivered.
Pre-orders are risky - for the customers...

[monsters4r]

Sunday.

As I expected, no update on sunday. They didn't learn anything. After all the delays and promises I thought this time it would be different.
Why the hell do you always promise things and never hold the timeline?

yes, that's realy true -> i thought last week the same well or rahter a 50 / 50 chance that the update will come on sunday...

but it's very sad, you all can see that the clear promised date of released was yesterday... and nothing happened... no update no statement....
 

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

Giorgio Massa shut up and come here only when you have something real to say, you are completly unreliable.

[Wolke]

Sunday.

As I expected, no update on sunday. They didn't learn anything. After all the delays and promises I thought this time it would be different.
Why the hell do you always promise things and never hold the timeline?

yes, that's realy true -> i thought last week the same well or rahter a 50 / 50 chance that the update will come on sunday...

but it's very sad, you all can see that the clear promised date of released was yesterday... and nothing happened... no update no statement....
  

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

the day is nearly over - > without update...  

[Wolke]

Sunday.

As I expected, no update on sunday. They didn't learn anything. After all the delays and promises I thought this time it would be different.
Why the hell do you always promise things and never hold the timeline?

yes, that's realy true -> i thought last week the same well or rahter a 50 / 50 chance that the update will come on sunday...

but it's very sad, you all can see that the clear promised date of released was yesterday... and nothing happened... no update no statement....
  

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

the day is nearly over - > without update...  

überrascht? 

Erwarte von den Lügnern einfach gar nichts mehr.

ehrlich gesagt bin ich nicht überrascht -> es ist einfach eine frechheit... 

heute morgen übermorgen -> ach egal ... ^^

[locke916]

@ masterOfDisaster, you can add another item to your fail list. The extra hash power from the CCP will be delivered later in an extra shipment, most probably at a time when the miner is garbage.

My miner arrived today. I ordered 600 GHs and that is exactly what has been delivered. No extra modules inside. No explanation why the extra modules are missing.

[swissmining]

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

1 hour 50 minutes left. As we know, bitmine AG (I prefer sh*tmine AG) works 24/7, we don't have to worry to get an update today...

Either giogiomassa has a major lack of intelligence or he's so full of shit to an extent I've never seen before.

I asked for a refund earlier this month. After the 31th day, I'll give them a notice of default and set a short grace period of 5 days to refund me in USD. From this point, they have to pay default charges of 5% (in addition to the 10%). If they don't refund me by the end of the grace period, I'm going to file a lawsuit (Vermittlungsbegehren, afterwards lawsuit at the court of bellinzona). There's no such thing as a class action in Switzerland, but it's possible to file a lawsuit together (permissive joinder of parties).

I'm so fuc**** angry at this company! If they are going to scam me with the refund, I'm going to use every legal method (including press) to bring them (especially Giorgo) to justice! I'm also willing to help others enforcing the swiss law (I work in the law business).

I'll keep you updated if I get my refund in time or not.

[masterOfDisaster]

@ masterOfDisaster, you can add another item to your fail list. The extra hash power from the CCP will be delivered later in an extra shipment, most probably at a time when the miner is garbage.

My miner arrived today. I ordered 600 GHs and that is exactly what has been delivered. No extra modules inside. No explanation why the extra modules are missing.

AFAIR remember the CPP (I've become too lazy to look each detail up - and why should I? It seems that it is useless...) allows for later delivery if the additional hash rate doesn't fit into the ordered device. But it seems the 600 GH/s device is equipped with 3 modules. So there should be 2 empty spaces.
Maybe they had a shortage of compliant power supplies (I think I've read something by people who ordered 1 TH/s Coincraft Desk devices who chose shipment without a power supply as a sufficient one was not available)?
I don't know.
Ask bitmine if you want an answer but it seems they have as of late some issues answering in a timely manner...

And regarding your request to add another item to the fail list: I'm "pleased" to do that (oh what would I give if there were no such thing as a fail list with entries...). But instead of updating my last post that will age out, I chose to append an updated version here:

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

Here's an overview of known/supposed/alleged fails (this list might not be exhaustive):

• Turbo mode: more hash rate, but so much more HW errors that it effectively hashes slower - fail!
  
• Power save mode: throttles the hash rate by 25% and the power consumption by 25% (resulting in still 1 J/GH instead of ~0.5 J/GH!) - fail!
  That is completely different from what was advertized!
  
• Not refunding people within 30 days after refund is requested (according to "terms of sale" 5.4) - fail!
  
• Not processing a refund but sending hardware instead - fail!
  
• Still not having learned how to treat paying customers - fail!

• @ masterOfDisaster, you can add another item to your fail list. The extra hash power from the CCP will be delivered later in an extra shipment, most probably at a time when the miner is garbage.
  My miner arrived today. I ordered 600 GHs and that is exactly what has been delivered. No extra modules inside. No explanation why the extra modules are missing.
  

  - fail!

@bcmine receiving a miner instead of getting the refund processed is for sure something that one can complain about

I'm only not calling it a SCAM because I can (with a lot effort!) see at least some delivered hardware.
...although that doesn't work like advertized and one might say: take your miner back, because it is broken and deliver what I've ordered - or if you can't give me my money back!

[spiccioli]

I asked for a refund earlier this month. After the 31th day, I'll give them a notice of default and set a short grace period of 5 days to refund me in USD. From this point, they have to pay default charges of 5% (in addition to the 10%). If they don't refund me by the end of the grace period, I'm going to file a lawsuit (Vermittlungsbegehren, afterwards lawsuit at the court of bellinzona). There's no such thing as a class action in Switzerland, but it's possible to file a lawsuit together (permissive joinder of parties).

I'm so fuc**** angry at this company! If they are going to scam me with the refund, I'm going to use every legal method (including press) to bring them (especially Giorgo) to justice! I'm also willing to help others enforcing the swiss law (I work in the law business).

I'll keep you updated if I get my refund in time or not.

Nice to know,

I'm at the 41st day since I've filed my first refund, the second one is ready to be filed as soon as they're 61 days late, both for rigs' orders.

Keep us informed, please, because a lot of us don't know Swiss laws and so don't really know how to proceed and filing a fraud complaint in our own country could be less effective.

spiccioli


edit: is it possible to do something like this in Switzerland to remove Giorgio from BitMine and liquidate it?

[masterOfDisaster]

[...]I'm going to file a lawsuit (Vermittlungsbegehren, afterwards lawsuit at the court of bellinzona). There's no such thing as a class action in Switzerland, but it's possible to file a lawsuit together (permissive joinder of parties). [...]

@swissmining
As you seem to be familiar with swiss law: what is your assessment (I estimate that you are no lawyer, so I will not hold you accountable for your opinion) regarding "terms of serivice" and "customer protection plan"?
Is there anything special in swiss law (that you are aware of) or are the contract parties (bitmine, customer) each bound to these agreements (I'd expect the latter if these agreements don't harm superior law)?
I mean, no one was allowed to ask for a premature refund with reference to agreements.
If the customers are not allowed to do something that is out of the agreement, why the hell does bitmine think it is allowed to?

[Wolke]

one small question:

did anybody paid the shipping cost for the extra "CPP" units ?

[mo_mo]

@giorgiomassa
I've was promised I will get my credit for the PSU +shipping for the damaged module back, 2-3 weeks ago from your support, I still haven't heard anything back, no replies or credit. I've sent you my address and everything else.

[masterOfDisaster]

one small question:

did anybody paid the shipping cost for the extra "CPP" units ?

Do you anyone who has received extra CPP units? I only read about those who haven't even gotten their additional hash rate...

[masterOfDisaster]

Announcement:

Don't worry, we are releasing it today, we took the chance to fix some other minor bugs and delayed the release of one day.

Considering that there's no release in this thread, nothing on news at the bitmine.ch website and nothing in the "setup" area at bitmine.ch, I suppose this is another fail (not to mention that is was previously announced to be ready earlier without postponing it in time - or telling about it...). I think it is fair to let the day "today" end at swiss local time.
Maybe it is a good idea to tell _where_ the hell it is released...
FAIL!

[SwissMiner]

I asked for a refund earlier this month. After the 31th day, I'll give them a notice of default and set a short grace period of 5 days to refund me in USD. From this point, they have to pay default charges of 5% (in addition to the 10%). If they don't refund me by the end of the grace period, I'm going to file a lawsuit (Vermittlungsbegehren, afterwards lawsuit at the court of bellinzona). There's no such thing as a class action in Switzerland, but it's possible to file a lawsuit together (permissive joinder of parties).

I'm so fuc**** angry at this company! If they are going to scam me with the refund, I'm going to use every legal method (including press) to bring them (especially Giorgo) to justice! I'm also willing to help others enforcing the swiss law (I work in the law business).

I'll keep you updated if I get my refund in time or not.

I guess it's time to file a lawsuit together and liquidate bitmine 

[masterOfDisaster]

I guess it's time to file a lawsuit together and liquidate bitmine  

Maybe you are right. It seems that the lot of customers have been quite forgiving so far. But as this sad bitmine story goes on and on, one has to face up to the facts that there is little to no hope for a good ending of this story.
The worst of all things - at least in my opinion - is the complete lack of valid information on a regular basis.

Even blackarrowsoftware learned that lesson (and they are no swiss company which tries to bask in the sun of swiss reputation:"After all, Switzerland’s reputation for punctuality is not a myth!"; right at the end of that page...).

Despite all announcements the communiction beaviour of bitmine is... questionable.
Maybe they talk in a more dependable way if they don't talk to customers but lawyers instead.
Not being a lawyer myself I see little room for them to get away with that behaviour.

I only don't know why they force their customers to do this last step.
I mean, it doesn't need to end like this, does it?

They could as well perform a complete turnaround and finally start to do what they promised to do.
Then not everything would be fine, but it should end a lot better this way.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda...
But maybe I'm just too naive.