Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[georgem]

This looks like 8 chips of 25 Ghs making up a 200 Ghs Modul of a coindesk.

However, I do believe the hashpower of these machines will EXCEED what we think they will be,

This is because the original hashpower quotes were based off of a nominal speed of 20Gh/s per chip, when in fact the chips run at 25GH/s per chip, that's a 25% increase right off the bat.

Code:

2) The nominal hashing power is 25 GH/s and not 20 GH/s as initially announced, this is due to some last minute optimizations that have been made with the design, a free 25% increase!

See: http://bitmine.ch/?p=2226 Posted on October 15, 2013


This combined with what will be essentially a 60 day delay in shipping means that your say 1 TH/s order should provide 1.25TH(initial) + 0.96 TH/s (bonus 10% * 50 days/10) = 2.21 TH/s in nominal mode

and 40/25 * 2.21 TH/s = 3.536 TH/s in turbo mode... of course they may omit the 25% boost on orders placed after the 15th of October.

But this really depends on the integrity of this company, if they provide less chips than they initially planned in order to rush out orders and don't compound the 10% hashrate increase as is standard then it could be much lower.

If they do that then I will seriously consider taking my business elsewhere for the next generation.

I am sure those are 8 chips running at 25 Ghs each (total of 200 Ghs), and not (as you would like) 10 chips running at 20 Ghs (totalling 200 Ghs) that will be able to run in turboboost of 250 Ghs.
So forget this.

[vic0]

Thank you Giorgio for the update.

To all of you who are whining about delays, you implicitly agreed that Customer Protection Plan would make up for any delay when you ordered.
Please stop complaining, it's not helping anybody, and Bitmine is not going to give you free stuff.

If you are looking for drama, I'll invite you to hang out on the HashFast thread.
You might find it fun to look for useful information throughout the 300+ pages of b*tching around.

Cheers

[georgem]

Thank you Giorgio for the update.

To all of you who are whining about delays, you implicitly agreed that Customer Protection Plan would make up for any delay when you ordered.
Please stop complaining, it's not helping anybody, and Bitmine is not going to give you free stuff.

If you are looking for drama, I'll invite you to hang out on the HashFast thread.
You might find it fun to look for useful information throughout the 300+ pages of b*tching around.

Cheers

Nothing like a 1 post user registered today, telling us how to behave.

If you don't complain, the producer may think that everything is alright, and that he can relax forever....

[akumaburn]

This looks like 8 chips of 25 Ghs making up a 200 Ghs Modul of a coindesk.

However, I do believe the hashpower of these machines will EXCEED what we think they will be,

This is because the original hashpower quotes were based off of a nominal speed of 20Gh/s per chip, when in fact the chips run at 25GH/s per chip, that's a 25% increase right off the bat.

Code:

2) The nominal hashing power is 25 GH/s and not 20 GH/s as initially announced, this is due to some last minute optimizations that have been made with the design, a free 25% increase!

See: http://bitmine.ch/?p=2226 Posted on October 15, 2013


This combined with what will be essentially a 60 day delay in shipping means that your say 1 TH/s order should provide 1.25TH(initial) + 0.96 TH/s (bonus 10% * 50 days/10) = 2.21 TH/s in nominal mode

and 40/25 * 2.21 TH/s = 3.536 TH/s in turbo mode... of course they may omit the 25% boost on orders placed after the 15th of October.

But this really depends on the integrity of this company, if they provide less chips than they initially planned in order to rush out orders and don't compound the 10% hashrate increase as is standard then it could be much lower.

If they do that then I will seriously consider taking my business elsewhere for the next generation.

I am sure those are 8 chips running at 25 Ghs each (total of 200 Ghs), and not (as you would like) 10 chips running at 20 Ghs (totalling 200 Ghs) that will be able to run in turboboost of 250 Ghs.
So forget this.

So greed wins again eh? Shame...

Still think the doubling hashpower would be a good idea, even if we don't get the "free 25% increase"..

They have the capacity to produce many boards in a short time and they said they have more than enough chips lined up.. (in fact they are still taking orders for chip delivery...).

[georgem]

bitmine.ch:
2) The nominal hashing power is 25 GH/s and not 20 GH/s as initially announced, this is due to some last minute optimizations that have been made with the design, a free 25% increase!

I am sure those are 8 chips running at 25 Ghs each (total of 200 Ghs), and not (as you would like) 10 chips running at 20 Ghs (totalling 200 Ghs) that will be able to run in turboboost of 250 Ghs.
So forget this.

So greed wins again eh? Shame...

Still think the doubling hashpower would be a good idea, even if we don't get the "free 25% increase"..

They have the capacity to produce many boards in a short time and they said they have more than enough chips lined up.. (in fact they are still taking orders for chip delivery...).

Yep, they made the "last minute optimization" (the free 25% increase) for themselves, so to speak, not for us muppets.
But why did they post this in october as some kind of "news for the customer" ... I don't understand...

Don't get me wrong, I like all good news for the company, I like that they win distributors in USA and that they improve the circuits etc... it looks like the company is growing and doing well... but when the customers keep on waiting for the products... it makes the company look like she's growing on the back of the customers...

[Fireminer]

Akumaburn: an excellent post (Today, 06:56:10 PM) on hinting Bitmine to give a bit more to customers that actually were misled by promises of early delivery.

Giorgiomassa: We all understand diffciulty of making such machines, and really appreciate efforts of you guys! But please understand us: it is not a small investment many made (pre-pay!) and expected timely delivery after this gentelmen's agreement. Would be nice if now, when production is about to start, Bitmine makes a noble gesture and gives something in return (I mean more hashpower). This may help in raising your PR from substandard level (sorry, but you would agree). So that this is not a country of cows and clock and engineers make good machines, but also of noble people.

What if we all here support the suggestion of Akumaburn by posting one line of support - with the hope that Bimine would react to this 'voice of people'... Too naive you think? Let's try.  

[georgem]

....  Bitmine makes a noble gesture and gives something in return (I mean more hashpower). ....

If that were to happen.... I would absolutely order additional units in the near future.

But we all know what is written in the contract, and I fear that more promises are not going to help anyone of us.

[vic0]

Thank you Giorgio for the update.

To all of you who are whining about delays, you implicitly agreed that Customer Protection Plan would make up for any delay when you ordered.
Please stop complaining, it's not helping anybody, and Bitmine is not going to give you free stuff.

If you are looking for drama, I'll invite you to hang out on the HashFast thread.
You might find it fun to look for useful information throughout the 300+ pages of b*tching around.

Cheers

Nothing like a 1 post user registered today, telling us how to behave.

If you don't complain, the producer may think that everything is alright, and that he can relax forever....

I'm a bit disappointed that my first post had to be this to be honest. It just doesn't make sense to ask for this or that when you agreed in the first place with the terms of the deal, and when the only thing you can do is wait for Bitmine to do their job.
It seems FUD makes people irrational.
By the way, the 25% hashrate increase is for the chips. If you ordered a 200Gh/s unit, I guess that's what you will get...
Plus, more frequent updates doesn't necessarily mean quicker production (remember BFL?).

In other news, things don't look that good for turbo mode at the moment: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.msg4613821#msg4613821
@giorgiomassa : What happens if the chips are not able to hash at 37.5Gh/s (turbo mode for the Desk) ?

[akumaburn]

Thank you Giorgio for the update.

To all of you who are whining about delays, you implicitly agreed that Customer Protection Plan would make up for any delay when you ordered.
Please stop complaining, it's not helping anybody, and Bitmine is not going to give you free stuff.

If you are looking for drama, I'll invite you to hang out on the HashFast thread.
You might find it fun to look for useful information throughout the 300+ pages of b*tching around.

Cheers

Nothing like a 1 post user registered today, telling us how to behave.

If you don't complain, the producer may think that everything is alright, and that he can relax forever....

I'm a bit disappointed that my first post had to be this to be honest. It just doesn't make sense to ask for this or that when you agreed in the first place with the terms of the deal, and when the only thing you can do is wait for Bitmine to do their job.
It seems FUD makes people irrational.
By the way, the 25% hashrate increase is for the chips. If you ordered a 200Gh/s unit, I guess that's what you will get...
Plus, more frequent updates doesn't necessarily mean quicker production (remember BFL?).

In other news, things don't look that good for turbo mode at the moment: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.msg4613821#msg4613821
@giorgiomassa : What happens if the chips are not able to hash at 37.5Gh/s (turbo mode for the Desk) ?

They have extra board producing capacity... and they have tons of extra chips.. why the heck not compensate their first batch customers who've been forced to wait over a month?

I'm pretty sure the cost to them is negligible compared to how much profit they've made and stand to make..
Honestly with their production capacity this shouldn't slow them down one bit...

Dealing badly with your customers stays with a company for life,
Sure they might save a few bucks and make themselves look awesome for their stock holders in
Q4 2013 -> Q1 2014.. but it is better to have a  

Strong Q4 2013 -> Q4 2014

compared to:

Very Strong Q4 2013 -> Q1 2014
Weak Q2 2014 - Q3 2014
and liquidated in Q4 2014..


They will not last as a company if they don't value their customers.. they will end up like BFL except without their popularity which will ultimately lead them to liquidating their assets and closing down.

Just hoping they'll listen and throw in an extra bone for their customers.. it'll do wonders for their PR which isn't very good at this moment..

[tranquille]

They have extra board producing capacity... and they have tons of extra chips.. why the heck not compensate their first batch customers who've been forced to wait over a month?

I'm pretty sure the cost to them is negligible compared to how much profit they've made and stand to make..
Honestly with their production capacity this shouldn't slow them down one bit...

Dealing badly with your customers stays with a company for life,
Sure they might save a few bucks and make themselves look awesome for their stock holders in
Q4 2013 -> Q1 2014.. but it is better to have a  

Strong Q4 2013 -> Q4 2014

compared to:

Very Strong Q4 2013 -> Q1 2014
Weak Q2 2014 - Q3 2014
and liquidated in Q4 2014..


They will not last as a company if they don't value their customers.. they will end up like BFL except without their popularity which will ultimately lead them to liquidating their assets and closing down.

Just hoping they'll listen and throw in an extra bone for their customers.. it'll do wonders for their PR which isn't very good at this moment..

Exactly that!
This is one of very few reasonable scenarios that could help save bitmine´s image and keep early customers reasonably pleased imo.

[Fireminer]

Fully agreed.
And, again, I think if we all support here your post, then who knows - maybe it may have some effect.
(I think every day - why on Earth they could not have done just a bit of better PR? Their email responses people quote here are quite reasonably formulated).
Anyway - let's see how it develops in the coming days.

[Daveb0]

Hi giorgiomassa

Nice to hear from you again.
And it is great to hear, that you did some serious progress.
Actually you posted today more in your official thread than in the past four weeks (sorry for this one, but just could not resist )

There's just a few things I would like to clarify.
I assume most of your customers were somekind of expecting a delay - especially the ones who have done some engineering projects themselves
You just can say how much time it takes to find proper solutions to all the nuts to crack and after once you're finished with you first draft one can just guess on how long the bugfixing period will be.
However:

Everybody in the EE industry knows how long it takes to manufacture 4 layers board prototype, have them assembled and do research and measures on each board revision to find issues

this is exactly the point that bothers me here. Once you communicated the three week delay on Dec. 10^th or at least with you first samples you picked up on Dec 31^st you must have known, that a three week delay will most probably not gonna happen.
So I would highly appreciate If the official communication of bitmite with their customers would be more frequent and more transparent.
Sure it would not have been nice  to hear that after the second try also the third PCB still has some flaws, but without any news, we don't even know wether the chips won't explode after 15minutes of hashing
So even if you are afraid of posting "bad" news which might make some users nervous, I think you would be suprised on how much support you would get in this forum If you would communicate more openly. Most of your customers are not dissapointed because of the delay but the way the communication works at the moment.

Which brings me to the next topic.
Obviously you are still debugging the PCB(s) (since I assume there will be different ones for Desks and Rigs).
Based on your post here:

Remember that these are from a pilot run of the IC packaging, our guys in China have done several further optimizations in the meantime like the glue and the wires used inside the IC, also we did tweak some parameters with the foundry for future wafers, so the chips are going to be definitely much better in production run (coming probably next week already) than these samples.

you were also improving the A1 chips themselves. Did you already revieve some samples of the new version? If yes, did they bring the expected improvements?
And the third hardware related question would be the Turbo mode. To my understanding after some weekend and overnight work (a big thank to your Engineering team this point) you managed to get up to 10 chained A1 chips to operate in a way where they scale (almost) linear. However based on this experience and the findings posted in the thread mentioned above it looks like the turbo mode might be an issue. Did you already try to operate these Babys in turbo mode or was this not possible yet due to the flaws in the sample chips and PCB(s)?


If I combine these two main topics, I would like to propose the following.
Consider to make a sort of list with all the main topics which you need to resolve in order to start with assembly/production on your end and provide an update on this list twice or three times a week in this thread. This could for example look like the following:
to all users: I just made up these points to visualize my proposal, so don't take this as any kind of truth - and don't start flood this thread with posts calling this FUDing, since it is just an example!

• [OPEN] resolve parasitic interferences on the PCB created by the high switching currents of the DCDC. A more radical re-routing of the board layout has been performed these last days and we're awaiting the fourth generation of the PCB(s) for mid this week.
• [OPEN] the heat dissipation of the chips needs to be improved. The packaging process (glue & wiring) has been improved. New samples have arrived today and are currently under assessment. results will be posted by mid week.
• [OPEN] verify that the boards&chips can be operated stable in turbo mode for at least 48hours. waiting for final PCB Version (see above)
• [OPEN] place the order for bulk PCB production. waiting for all open PCB issues to be closed.  Once ordered we recieve the first PCBs after 4 working days with a capacity of about 250PCBs per day
• [OPEN] place the order for bulk chip production & packaging. waiting for heat dissipation assessment of new packaging version. Once ordered we recieve the first fully packaged chips after 8 working days (3 days chip production, 5 days packaging) with a capacity of about 3k chips per day
• [CLOSED] get the chips to work in chains longer than two chips. Introducing a clock divider in PCB rev 2 resolved the problem
• [CLOSED] recieve first sample chips from packaging facility.

to all users: I just made up these points to visualize my proposal, so don't take this as any kind of truth - and don't start flood this thread with posts calling this FUDing, since it is just an example!

Would this be an idea worth taking up?

regards

[RetroGamer]

Hi giorgiomassa

Nice to hear from you again.
And it is great to hear, that you did some serious progress.
Actually you posted today more in your official thread than in the past four weeks (sorry for this one, but just could not resist )

There's just a few things I would like to clarify.
I assume most of your customers were somekind of expecting a delay - especially the ones who have done some engineering projects themselves
You just can say how much time it takes to find proper solutions to all the nuts to crack and after once you're finished with you first draft one can just guess on how long the bugfixing period will be.
However:

Everybody in the EE industry knows how long it takes to manufacture 4 layers board prototype, have them assembled and do research and measures on each board revision to find issues

this is exactly the point that bothers me here. Once you communicated the three week delay on Dec. 10^th or at least with you first samples you picked up on Dec 31^st you must have known, that a three week delay will most probably not gonna happen.
So I would highly appreciate If the official communication of bitmite with their customers would be more frequent and more transparent.
Sure it would not have been nice  to hear that after the second try also the third PCB still has some flaws, but without any news, we don't even know wether the chips won't explode after 15minutes of hashing
So even if you are afraid of posting "bad" news which might make some users nervous, I think you would be suprised on how much support you would get in this forum If you would communicate more openly. Most of your customers are not dissapointed because of the delay but the way the communication works at the moment.

Which brings me to the next topic.
Obviously you are still debugging the PCB(s) (since I assume there will be different ones for Desks and Rigs).
Based on your post here:

Remember that these are from a pilot run of the IC packaging, our guys in China have done several further optimizations in the meantime like the glue and the wires used inside the IC, also we did tweak some parameters with the foundry for future wafers, so the chips are going to be definitely much better in production run (coming probably next week already) than these samples.

you were also improving the A1 chips themselves. Did you already revieve some samples of the new version? If yes, did they bring the expected improvements?
And the third hardware related question would be the Turbo mode. To my understanding after some weekend and overnight work (a big thank to your Engineering team this point) you managed to get up to 10 chained A1 chips to operate in a way where they scale (almost) linear. However based on this experience and the findings posted in the thread mentioned above it looks like the turbo mode might be an issue. Did you already try to operate these Babys in turbo mode or was this not possible yet due to the flaws in the sample chips and PCB(s)?


If I combine these two main topics, I would like to propose the following.
Consider to make a sort of list with all the main topics which you need to resolve in order to start with assembly/production on your end and provide an update on this list twice or three times a week in this thread. This could for example look like the following:
to all users: I just made up these points to visualize my proposal, so don't take this as any kind of truth - and don't start flood this thread with posts calling this FUDing, since it is just an example!

• [OPEN] resolve parasitic interferences on the PCB created by the high switching currents of the DCDC. A more radical re-routing of the board layout has been performed these last days and we're awaiting the fourth generation of the PCB(s) for mid this week.
• [OPEN] the heat dissipation of the chips needs to be improved. The packaging process (glue & wiring) has been improved. New samples have arrived today and are currently under assessment. results will be posted by mid week.
• [OPEN] verify that the boards&chips can be operated stable in turbo mode for at least 48hours. waiting for final PCB Version (see above)
• [OPEN] place the order for bulk PCB production. waiting for all open PCB issues to be closed.  Once ordered we recieve the first PCBs after 4 working days with a capacity of about 250PCBs per day
• [OPEN] place the order for bulk chip production & packaging. waiting for heat dissipation assessment of new packaging version. Once ordered we recieve the first fully packaged chips after 8 working days (3 days chip production, 5 days packaging) with a capacity of about 3k chips per day
• [CLOSED] get the chips to work in chains longer than two chips. Introducing a clock divider in PCB rev 2 resolved the problem
• [CLOSED] recieve first sample chips from packaging facility.

to all users: I just made up these points to visualize my proposal, so don't take this as any kind of truth - and don't start flood this thread with posts calling this FUDing, since it is just an example!

Would this be an idea worth taking up?

regards

Very nice statement @ Daveb0
Unfortunately, they have it all early November gewust because there would have had to get their sample chips to be completed on schedule
also I have already reported several times
and now they still cheat us by 2 chips per board

[Syke]

I don't know if this was announce here but Technobit got their board working and has a limited number of pre-production A1 units for sale.

I just bought one €1500/2.5BTC delivered for 260GH. Not the bargain of the century but more interested in 1W/GH and Feb 10th shipping.

http://technobit.eu/index.php?id_product=61&controller=product&id_lang=1

That would be a decent price if they were actually in-stock and shipped immediately. But they're quoting 3-weeks until shipping, at which point it's a pretty bad deal.

[Syke]

Sure if everyone else delivers as promised but delays always crop up. Took BFL 6 months to sort out their chip and board problems last time.
A mining machine in the hand is worth two the bush, thats why they sell for double on eBay. 

That's why Bitmain is the go-to manufacturer. They are shipping 180-200 GH/s units immediately, for 1.9 BTC. Why pay more for something delivered nearly a month from now?!

[dplusf]

I don't know if this was announce here but Technobit got their board working and has a limited number of pre-production A1 units for sale.

I just bought one €1500/2.5BTC delivered for 260GH. Not the bargain of the century but more interested in 1W/GH and Feb 10th shipping.

http://technobit.eu/index.php?id_product=61&controller=product&id_lang=1

hope it goes well for you.

i bought 10 usb miner from technobit.eu in november for 2nd week december delivery and till today now answer, no nothing.
i call it SCAM.

And if you read the other thread there were plenty of people bargaining....

[wttbs]

I have faith in Bitmine but I am also worried...

1) weird thing is they don't communicate to their customers by email, how difficult is it to send an email to your customers with an update on the situation?
2) there is more communication from Bitmine on this forum than on their official website.

Regarding the Customer Protection Plan...

I ordered on october 10 2013 a CoinCraft Desk 200Gh/s, shipping would be from december 16 december + 10 days (queue)= december 26 2013.
I upgrade on december 10 2013 with 4 200GH/s modules, they promised modules will be installed for free in the Desk and would delay shipping.
Final ordered configuration: Coincraft Desk with 5 200Gh/s modules = 1TH/s (1000GH/s)

For each subsequent 10 days of late shipping, we will add for free 10% more hashing power to your order as penalty.

january 05 2014 : +10%
january 15 2014 : +10%
january 25 2014 : +10%

it's january 21 now, don't expect shipping on saturday 25th, extra hashing power + 30%
30% of 1000Gh = 300 Gh/s , should be 1 extra Coincraft Desk unit + 1 extra module = 400Gh/s system

february 4 2014 : +10%
february 14 2014: +10%
february 24 2014: +10%

when they do actualy ship on day 60 (1 day before 61 day limit = refund + 10%) you should get +60% hashing power
60% of 1000Gh = 600 Gh/s , should be 1 extra Coincraft Desk unit + 2 extra module = 600Gh/s system

After the 61st day of late shipment, you have the right to request a full refund and we will pay you an additional penalty of 10% of the initial order amount.

february 25 2014 = day 61 of late shipment. Now it gets exciting and this is what I really worry about the most: full refund + 10%.

When you paid with Dollar or Euro it's easy, You will probably get your refund in dollar/euro + 10%.

But what if you paid with Bitcoin ?
- 1 Coincraft Desk with 1 stock module 200GH/s on october 10 2013 costed $1499 = 11.9 BTC   will you get refund of 11.9 + 10% = 13,09 BTC ?
- or you will get f*cked (sorry for using this word) and get $1499 + 10% = $1648,9 * BTC-Rate(1 BTC= $859) = 1,9 BTC -> you loose 10 BTC !

you know I sometime have sleepless nights regarding the last scenerio....  if it will happen (I hope not) never accept refund and keep waiting for your miner and claim extra 10% hashing power every subsequent 10 days.

I just had to share my thoughts with you. I do hope Bitmine will deliver the miners a.s.a.p. and at least try to communicate in a better way with their customers.

[segaklon]

Antonio (Bitmine AG)

Jan 21 15:53

Dear Mr.Guzman,
 Our engineer team these days is making the final testing and tuning of the prototypes,
 the results are good but they want to try the machines in their limits depending the consuming,temperature and hashing power,
 in order to see if they can receive any better results from different set ups.
 When they are done with the further testing they will start the production of the miners and the shipping.
 At the moment I do not have an exact day of delivery for your order,but since we start the production and see the daily productivity I will be able to give you more information.
 Thank you for your patience and understanding.


Thanks
 for your interests in our products.

Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime

Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service

[blizzen]

I have faith in Bitmine but I am also worried...


But what if you paid with Bitcoin ?
- 1 Coincraft Desk with 1 stock module 200GH/s on october 10 2013 costed $1499 = 11.9 BTC   will you get refund of 11.9 + 10% = 13,09 BTC ?
- or you will get f*cked (sorry for using this word) and get $1499 + 10% = $1648,9 * BTC-Rate(1 BTC= $859) = 1,9 BTC -> you loose 10 BTC !

you know I sometime have sleepless nights regarding the last scenerio....  if it will happen (I hope not) never accept refund and keep waiting for your miner and claim extra 10% hashing power every subsequent 10 days.

+1

[Gaglam]

@segaklon: Do you think the February Batch Week 1 will be somehow in time?
Regards

Antonio (Bitmine AG)

Jan 21 15:53

Dear Mr.Guzman,
 Our engineer team these days is making the final testing and tuning of the prototypes,
 the results are good but they want to try the machines in their limits depending the consuming,temperature and hashing power,
 in order to see if they can receive any better results from different set ups.
 When they are done with the further testing they will start the production of the miners and the shipping.
 At the moment I do not have an exact day of delivery for your order,but since we start the production and see the daily productivity I will be able to give you more information.
 Thank you for your patience and understanding.


Thanks
 for your interests in our products.

Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime

Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service