Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[SwissMiner]

Let's see the lawsuit options:

.. you don't know Swiss OR, do you?

[matt4054]

Let's see the lawsuit options:

.. you don't know Swiss OR, do you?

Errrr... "OR" is the German abbreviation for the Swiss Criminal Code (Obligationenrecht, code des obligations, could go on in Italian if you really wanted to). Did you care to follow my two links above?

Tell us exactly how you would sue someone for a late delivery when the contract states exactly what happens in case of late delivery, and the delivering party complies with its obligations?

[SwissMiner]

.. just take a look at OR 102 ff    here: http://www.aarejura.ch/download/schuldnerverzug.pdf

.. criminal code  




.. are you familiar with "criminal code" 


We are hearing more reports of CEX.IO accounts being hacked after promises from the representatives of CEX.IO informed us that the matters had been dealt with and new security policies in place. However, Mentaso was also promised by email, a list of CEX.IO employees and photos, plus other business information to clear the confusion of who is the owner of CEX.IO. As of yet, we have received nothing except empty promises.


News like this can become another nail in the coffin for Bitcoin as it shows a lack of responsibility in conducting business on the Internet. So we urge all users who have had funds stolen from their CEX.IO accounts to report the thefts directly to law enforcement officials as well as letting Mentaso know, so we can keep track of the thefts from CEX.IO.

The last thing we would like to believe is that these thefts are an inside job, so hopefully, CEX.IO will offer its users who have been victims a detailed explanation and also the case number of the reported theft. Surely CEX.IO is reporting these issues directly to law enforcement, as to do otherwise would be reckless and not have its users best interest at heart.

If you have had funds stolen, please report them to your local law enforcement official and also to Scotland Yard as the company is based in London.
You can report the incident here https://online.met.police.uk/ and use the CEX.IO information below.

Details of CEX.IO as follows.


Registrant

Alex Luts
CEX.IO LTD
SUITE 319-3, 32 THREADNEEDLE STREET
LONDON
UN

[dp379]

Well I'm not exactly happy that it took 4 - 5 days to respond to my email nor am I happy that they haven't even started production of my device yet that I was expecting to be delivered Week 5 but I just thought I would share the response that I received with everyone else monitoring this thread. I just hope that bitmine a) Get their act together, b) deliver devices at the expected speeds (including turbo mode!!).

Anyway, here is the response I received this afternoon:



I am really sorry for the delay on responding in your email but we are receiving hundreds of emails every day and it takes time to respond.
The Coincraft Rig production shall start the by the end of the next week,though I do not have so far an exact date.
As soon as It is announced to me the exact date of production for Rigs,I will be able to announce you the exact date that your order will be ready for shipping.
Thank you for your patience and your understanding.

Thanks
for your interests in our products.

Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime

Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service

[Wolke]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

[alfabitcoin]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

[Wolke]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

yes, i think thats possible -> but it would makes me happy if i know whats the problem....  only to say, sry -> you have to wait 2 additional weeks....
i thinks thats not right... 

[Keefe]

Hey be patient friends i am in the same boat. just endure another 2 weeks or so. At least not in another 2 month waiting like BFL.  

Apparently we´re not in the same boat; I have ordered the very first Avalon Clones - then upgraded to Coincraft Rigs - at a time where BTC traded below 100$.

I can´t accept the in-transparent way of communication from bitmine anymore - we are nearing a 3 months delay due to a official 3 week shipping delay of a sub-contractor?!? Yeah right - that´s so credible. I am going to be patient and put my rose-tinted glasses on and see what happens. NOT

It´s not that hard to (officially) prove where the time during production was lost - and I will not hesitate to initiate a lawsuit to find that out.

Where does the 3 months delay come from? It has always been clearly stated on the product page that shipping would start from the 16th of December, as such as of today we are just 7 weeks late, a little bit less than 2 months and, again, we are going to pay that delay to our customers with our customer protection plan by adding free hashing power.

Well IF you start shipping Rigs in week 8 - it comes very close to 3 months.

You were always stating that delivery(!! not production) started at 3rd of december - and 95% will be done by 17th of december.
How about you check your own blog -

http://bitmine.ch/?p=1920

"..shipping queue will continue to be filled till we reach the limits of our production capacity, although 95% of all deliveries will commence between December 3rd and December 17th"

Also I am not complaining about the high BTC rate - I am only complaining about not getting informed by what´s really going on with my orders.

This blog post is being taken into account so often, so it's better to clarify it once for all: that post was based on our best predictions at that time but was in no way binding like the purchase agreement is when you place the order and agree to the stated terms. At that time, we were thinking that we could have anticipated production in respect of what was the official terms, but unfortunately it turned out we couldn't. This fact does not automagically change the legally binding shipping terms to the predicted one, that one will always stay "starting from the 16th of December" as it was very clearly written in the product description page.

giorgiomassa: Is Dec 16 the "agreed shipment date" for my Oct 13 order (ship queue #188)? And is Feb 15 the 61st day, so I can request a refund on Feb 15? I still have not received an answer about my "agreed shipment date" from your support team, despite asking many times.

[georgem]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

I assume that turbomode isn't working as advertized?

[Wolke]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

I assume that turbomode isn't working as advertized?

maybe.... that can or that can not -> only bitmine know that....

if this is the problem -> my solution -> give everbody more moduls to have the tubromode performance in the normal mode... i think all people are happy ?!....

[georgem]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

I assume that turbomode isn't working as advertized?

maybe.... that can or that can not -> only bitmine know that....

if this is the problem -> my solution -> give everbody more moduls to have the tubromode performance in the normal mode... i think all people are happy ?!....

Yes, I would think atleast one free modul would be appropriate in that case.

[Wolke]

I think it's time for a response from bitmine!

what exactly takes 2 weeks longer?

chips -> done, my info is -> they have enough
psb -> I think finished
case -> done, you can see it on the picture
psu -> I hope they have enough, i think they have -> look at the picture

did i forget something?

Maybe something still does not work as advertised, so they need additional time.

I assume that turbomode isn't working as advertized?

maybe.... that can or that can not -> only bitmine know that....

if this is the problem -> my solution -> give everbody more moduls to have the tubromode performance in the normal mode... i think all people are happy ?!....

Yes, I would think atleast one free modul would be appropriate in that case.

only one free modul by lose 500 Gh/s ? example for a full desk -> on extra unit is not enough.... 1 modul nominal makes 200 gh/s...  in this case -> i think 3 extra units are fair...  plus the units for late delivery...

if i have ordered a car with 4 wheels and trailer hitch, i would like to get this....

[grv]

its easy to calculate shipping date:
just follow bitcoin difficulty rise, once mining becomes borderline unprofitable, hardware will start shipping (getting rid of useless rigs).
if difficulty isnt rising as fast as predicted, there will be more shipping delays - possibly even end of february, beginning of march (with all the usual excuses, "design problems", "chip instability", "dog ate some chips", etc)

[georgem]

its easy to calculate shipping date:
just follow bitcoin difficulty rise, once mining becomes borderline unprofitable, hardware will start shipping (getting rid of useless rigs).
if difficulty isnt rising as fast as predicted, there will be more shipping delays - possibly even end of february, beginning of march (with all the usual excuses, "design problems", "chip instability", "dog ate some chips", etc)

Interesting theory... go on...

[RetroGamer]

Hello Bitmine
take an example at KNC Miner!

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=6d9133088733c220dff716f59&id=cceb80a9ec&e=96173853ac

Due to their delay I have 240 BTC can not generate these are 151 776 EUR
How would it be if they also plan B? for customers
My BTC address for Plan B:

1L2MJBi9Hi9avyC3qX3eJgu7c3MvNtAx2H

Wanted to give their customers something that has never been done before a provider?

Here they could do be the first!

[Wolke]

i feel as a customer of bitmine from day to day lost 


knc -> that is support at their customer, great!

[oatmo]

I have a Feb week 2 batch 2 order. I guess it's time to pay. They claim they are not going to be late. Unlikely that they will be on time. I'm assuming if I pay now I get the purchase protection which says that I get a certain percentage extra for every week late.

Oatmo

[RetroGamer]

I have a Feb week 2 batch 2 order. I guess it's time to pay. They claim they are not going to be late. Unlikely that they will be on time. I'm assuming if I pay now I get the purchase protection which says that I get a certain percentage extra for every week late.

Oatmo

and do not forget
10 days after the Delivery Date does not begin until the distortion!
that's shit
for example:
delivery Date 21/12/2013
plus 10 days
01/01/2014 start until my protection plan

[ISAWHIM]

OMG, STFU... lol

You whine like a bunch of little female dogs in heat...

If you paid, you are getting a miner (whenever that is), before anyone-else who has not even paid yet. You knew the risk when you made your "PRE-ORDER", and for transparency (Which is not even a legal requirement), you were told "Expected delivery dates", and "Have been informed of delays".

What the delays are, is irrelevant. Do you want a daily play-by-play of production? Did Microsoft or Sony or any video-game company ever do that? No. They just announced that shipping would be delayed, and offered another "Estimated shipping date".

What things could cause delays after getting the chips...
- PCB redesigns
- Component-replacement of failed parts
- Software issues
- Being overworked
- Stalled or Frozen funds (Due to people demanding refunds and trying to stop-payment.)
- Certification process approval for UL/CE or other things
- ISO quality assurance checking, to ensure parts are up to their own ISO standards that they claim
- Burn-in cycle, to ensure one bad component does not cause whole-device failure (Not all components are created equally)
- Variance testing, to ensure end-results are producing in-spec (Something that CPU producers no longer do.)
- Packaging and shipping delays (Sure they will pick-up one or two packages, but when you tell them you have 1000, they have to schedule a truck that is available to pick-up. Then, if 1000 a day/week, they need to schedule a whole schedule.)

Then, to top that off... There is losses to deal with. Produce 100, lose 10, and you have to rework those, or scrap them, and replace those with production that was intended for the next orders, which place you 20+ units behind. (10 lost + 10 made-up + What went wrong)

Why say 3 more weeks until shipping? Because they don't know if you are order #1 or order number #1000. Because they think it will take a week, but to be generous, they say 3, to cover all grounds. Someone will get it sooner, someone will get it later. In the end, everyone who ordered one, will get one.

If you wanted it earlier, you could have.... Done nothing... none existed before now.
If you couldn't handle the risk, you could have... Not made the purchase... others will gladly buy your order-number/place from you.
If you needed the money back, you could have... Asked for a refund... they do give refunds.

As for not returning a ROI... That is a crock of crap. These things will produce more value then you spent on them, and more value than you spend to operate them, for the next two years, easily. Stop looking at the price now. Look at the price when you will be cashing-out. If you cash-out as you earn, you are the reason you are not getting any ROI. Every time you cash-out, you lower the value and lower your next return. Try using a value of $6000/BTC for your btc-calculators, which is when you will most-likely be cashing-out, or $2000/BTC if you are stupid. $150,000/BTC if you are smart, and in this for the long-haul. (Well after you have stopped mining.)

Why do you think people are spending billions on these things? Yes, billions have been spent on hardware, farms, services, and flat-out buying BTC. You jump in the game late, you pay more and gain less. But, we all have a lot to gain for years to come still.

There was, and has always been, the option to just buy BTC directly. Which, honestly, is more profitable than mining any coins at all. Miners no-longer determine the price of the coin, only the floor of the coin.

Why buy a miner? Because BTC is not the best coin to mine. It is great to be given, but all other coins are better to mine. Simply because they are easier to mine and have not matured yet. Those other coins will do exactly like BTC has done, and go 10x, 100x, 1000x, 10000x, in time. That is where you want to mine, instead of buy. (Actually you want to do both.) The values of alt-coins will never rise if you don't mine them. The more you mine them, the more others have to ask for value. Because they get less, and have less to cash-in. Then there is "new coins", that have not been created yet. With these miners, you get a prime front-row seat to a majority of the volume, compared to bitcoins, where you barely get a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a coin in return. (Again, the secret it so hold even when value seems the worst. Then buy, when it is the worst, to raise the value of your held-coins and "cut losses" or "increase value" of held coins.)

You are in the game... It is time you started learning how to play it. Otherwise you are just a spectator with a toy, standing in the game-field.

P.S. $1200/BTC... That was NOT the spike... That was the prelude to the spike. Slightly premature and high, but not the spike for this coin-year. The spike is coming over the next three months. There is still time to get a decent miner by that time. (The coin-year is not aligned with the normal year. It is off by a few months. Wait until income-tax refunds start rolling-in.)

P.P.S. What that chart above actually shows, is that we are reaching our technology limit and also a "production limit" of units in-hand. (Not to mention dissipation across more valuable coins than BTC. Others figured that out, and soon the rest will too.) Translation, difficulty is still climbing, but it is slowing down. Thus, actually falling off projection. Until 100PHs units come. If they come. Thus, perfect time to be buying all these THs machines like mad. That just extended your returns and shortened your ROI projections. Going from 35% expansion to only 19% expansion per difficulty change, and slowing down until we all own THs units. (Remember, as each new THs unit comes online, several GHs units go offline.)

[tranquille]

OMG, STFU... lol

You whine like a bunch of little female dogs in heat...

If you paid, you are getting a miner (whenever that is), before anyone-else who has not even paid yet. You knew the risk when you made your "PRE-ORDER", and for transparency (Which is not even a legal requirement), you were told "Expected delivery dates", and "Have been informed of delays".

What the delays are, is irrelevant. Do you want a daily play-by-play of production? Did Microsoft or Sony or any video-game company ever do that? No. They just announced that shipping would be delayed, and offered another "Estimated shipping date".

What things could cause delays after getting the chips...
- PCB redesigns
- Component-replacement of failed parts
- Software issues
- Being overworked
- Stalled or Frozen funds (Due to people demanding refunds and trying to stop-payment.)
- Certification process approval for UL/CE or other things
- ISO quality assurance checking, to ensure parts are up to their own ISO standards that they claim
- Burn-in cycle, to ensure one bad component does not cause whole-device failure (Not all components are created equally)
- Variance testing, to ensure end-results are producing in-spec (Something that CPU producers no longer do.)
- Packaging and shipping delays (Sure they will pick-up one or two packages, but when you tell them you have 1000, they have to schedule a truck that is available to pick-up. Then, if 1000 a day/week, they need to schedule a whole schedule.)

Then, to top that off... There is losses to deal with. Produce 100, lose 10, and you have to rework those, or scrap them, and replace those with production that was intended for the next orders, which place you 20+ units behind. (10 lost + 10 made-up + What went wrong)

Why say 3 more weeks until shipping? Because they don't know if you are order #1 or order number #1000. Because they think it will take a week, but to be generous, they say 3, to cover all grounds. Someone will get it sooner, someone will get it later. In the end, everyone who ordered one, will get one.

If you wanted it earlier, you could have.... Done nothing... none existed before now.
If you couldn't handle the risk, you could have... Not made the purchase... others will gladly buy your order-number/place from you.
If you needed the money back, you could have... Asked for a refund... they do give refunds.

As for not returning a ROI... That is a crock of crap. These things will produce more value then you spent on them, and more value than you spend to operate them, for the next two years, easily. Stop looking at the price now. Look at the price when you will be cashing-out. If you cash-out as you earn, you are the reason you are not getting any ROI. Every time you cash-out, you lower the value and lower your next return. Try using a value of $6000/BTC for your btc-calculators, which is when you will most-likely be cashing-out, or $2000/BTC if you are stupid. $150,000/BTC if you are smart, and in this for the long-haul. (Well after you have stopped mining.)

Why do you think people are spending billions on these things? Yes, billions have been spent on hardware, farms, services, and flat-out buying BTC. You jump in the game late, you pay more and gain less. But, we all have a lot to gain for years to come still.

There was, and has always been, the option to just buy BTC directly. Which, honestly, is more profitable than mining any coins at all. Miners no-longer determine the price of the coin, only the floor of the coin.

Why buy a miner? Because BTC is not the best coin to mine. It is great to be given, but all other coins are better to mine. Simply because they are easier to mine and have not matured yet. Those other coins will do exactly like BTC has done, and go 10x, 100x, 1000x, 10000x, in time. That is where you want to mine, instead of buy. (Actually you want to do both.) The values of alt-coins will never rise if you don't mine them. The more you mine them, the more others have to ask for value. Because they get less, and have less to cash-in. Then there is "new coins", that have not been created yet. With these miners, you get a prime front-row seat to a majority of the volume, compared to bitcoins, where you barely get a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a coin in return. (Again, the secret it so hold even when value seems the worst. Then buy, when it is the worst, to raise the value of your held-coins and "cut losses" or "increase value" of held coins.)

You are in the game... It is time you started learning how to play it. Otherwise you are just a spectator with a toy, standing in the game-field.

P.S. $1200/BTC... That was NOT the spike... That was the prelude to the spike. Slightly premature and high, but not the spike for this coin-year. The spike is coming over the next three months. There is still time to get a decent miner by that time. (The coin-year is not aligned with the normal year. It is off by a few months. Wait until income-tax refunds start rolling-in.)

P.P.S. What that chart above actually shows, is that we are reaching our technology limit and also a "production limit" of units in-hand. (Not to mention dissipation across more valuable coins than BTC. Others figured that out, and soon the rest will too.) Translation, difficulty is still climbing, but it is slowing down. Thus, actually falling off projection. Until 100PHs units come. If they come. Thus, perfect time to be buying all these THs machines like mad. That just extended your returns and shortened your ROI projections. Going from 35% expansion to only 19% expansion per difficulty change, and slowing down until we all own THs units. (Remember, as each new THs unit comes online, several GHs units go offline.)

OMG - you have to be the chosen on - the prophecy.

You project bitcoin prices like it´s a sure thing they will reach 150k/btc.
That´s hilarious!

And sure altcoins will all reach unsurmountable highs; you better bet your house on dogecoin then - right?

If you didn´t realize by now that the value lies in the network rather than in the algorithm - you didn´t understand much imho. Algorithms can be changed. It´s more likely that mining altogether will be switched out to a entirely different proof-of-work mechanism or maybe just another hashing algorithm than for some alt-coins to succeed.
But go on - keep ignoring the risks involved!

Regarding bitmine - everyone knows what could be the reason for delays. The whole point is to keep your customers informed. They (bitmine) engage a whole customer support team and claimed to overdeliver all along - but are not able to write frequent blogposts that might answer most customer´s questions.
THAT´s the worst example of customer support - and everyone who has ever started a company knows that support is brutal but immensely important.

How about you keep it to facts rather than your sole opinions?