Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[lajz99]

Actually I feel a little better about BA after reading the last dozen posts.

It sounds like it was a complete cluster-f--k at the time, but:

1- they did right by the customers in fixing all the boards

2- they definitely aren't going to make that mistake again

3- the previous mistake was probably rather costly to them, and undoubtedly chewed into margins and overall production, productivity, and sales. After that, they were still around and probably learned a hell of a lot in the process. During it, they communicated and dealt with the shitstorm.

Now with all that having been said, BA, how are my orders coming along?   :-)

EDIT: I also consider the other recent communication a very positive reflection on the company -- where they came out and said, "hey we can't make this hash at the rate we want at the power level we wanted, but we're making good on our word by dropping the clock rage and bumping the number of cores." 

That is a company I want to be involved with. Transparent and doing right by the customer.

You are incorrect, BA did NOT fix the boards.  Would you send your boards back to a company that already fucked them up once?  I wouldn't.  The boards were fixed by a 3rd party.  By the time the issue was discovered the majority of boards were already shipped to consumers and had to be shipped to various people around the world to be fixed.

[drewster]

Actually I feel a little better about BA after reading the last dozen posts.

It sounds like it was a complete cluster-f--k at the time, but:

1- they did right by the customers in fixing all the boards

2- they definitely aren't going to make that mistake again

3- the previous mistake was probably rather costly to them, and undoubtedly chewed into margins and overall production, productivity, and sales. After that, they were still around and probably learned a hell of a lot in the process. During it, they communicated and dealt with the shitstorm.

Now with all that having been said, BA, how are my orders coming along?   :-)

EDIT: I also consider the other recent communication a very positive reflection on the company -- where they came out and said, "hey we can't make this hash at the rate we want at the power level we wanted, but we're making good on our word by dropping the clock rage and bumping the number of cores." 

That is a company I want to be involved with. Transparent and doing right by the customer.

You are incorrect, BA did NOT fix the boards.  Would you send your boards back to a company that already fucked them up once?  I wouldn't.  The boards were fixed by a 3rd party.  By the time the issue was discovered the majority of boards were already shipped to consumers and had to be shipped to various people around the world to be fixed.

Hmm well that blows then.   So what, the boards had to be fixed elsewhere at the buyer's expense? Or how was that handled?

Thanks

[jedimstr]

Actually I feel a little better about BA after reading the last dozen posts.

It sounds like it was a complete cluster-f--k at the time, but:

1- they did right by the customers in fixing all the boards

2- they definitely aren't going to make that mistake again

3- the previous mistake was probably rather costly to them, and undoubtedly chewed into margins and overall production, productivity, and sales. After that, they were still around and probably learned a hell of a lot in the process. During it, they communicated and dealt with the shitstorm.

Now with all that having been said, BA, how are my orders coming along?   :-)

EDIT: I also consider the other recent communication a very positive reflection on the company -- where they came out and said, "hey we can't make this hash at the rate we want at the power level we wanted, but we're making good on our word by dropping the clock rage and bumping the number of cores."  

That is a company I want to be involved with. Transparent and doing right by the customer.

You are incorrect, BA did NOT fix the boards.  Would you send your boards back to a company that already fucked them up once?  I wouldn't.  The boards were fixed by a 3rd party.  By the time the issue was discovered the majority of boards were already shipped to consumers and had to be shipped to various people around the world to be fixed.

Hmm well that blows then.   So what, the boards had to be fixed elsewhere at the buyer's expense? Or how was that handled?

Thanks

BA manufactured boards for Drillbit systems and were accused of using shoddy/fake parts that weren't the ones specified by Drillbit.  Drillbit paid for shipping and repairs around the world for the customers eating the costs.  BA didn't do a thing.  No one knows if they apologized or compensated Drillbit in any way.

For the next run, Drillbit said they were going go elsewhere local and under more control for manufacture.

[BlackArrow Matt]

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I'm not sure how...

Could have been bad or fake parts, could have been bad workmanship putting the parts on. As for the design, we are almost 100% sure that the chosen parts were right and the design sound, but i guess its possible that they just weren't up for the job. On paper there was plenty of overhead in there. Its kind of impossible to say really. But hey, we've found a way around and the boards now work. Thats the main thing.

equates to...

I wish you all the best with obtaining products that actually work, however, based on how bad Black Arrow fucked up the Drillbit board production using sub-par components I wouldn't plug in anything produced by this company.  

As for any updates, I'm trying to get a solid answer on where we're at. I'm going to start pressing the issue with our other teams. I will let you know what I find as quickly as possible. I'm sorry for the delays here, we've had a hectic few weeks.

Well Matt, maybe the "wouldn't plug in anything produced by this company" was a little extreme, but, I'm glad to see you didn't try to deny using sub-par parts and completely jacking up the boards causing at least 3 weeks in lost mining time.  I suppose that's not something you can really deny, eh?

Just wanted everyone to know who they're working with and the quality they should expect from you guys...

There's more to the story than what's only on the surface. I'm not going to point fingers at anyone but I will say that Black Arrow assembled what we were given. Our production facilities are top of the line and we still have bitfury boards for sale that work very well.

[BlackArrow Matt]

asking for an update on your thousands of dollars is not puerile.  it's common f-ing sense.  

If a corporation had invested tens of thousands in a similar situation and was getting the runaround like this, they'd be in touch with their lawyers and, more likely, they'd be on a plane demanding an inspection of the plant and hard evidence of progress to date.  customers have sent BA what is likely several hundred thousand dollars, if not more.  That's not the type of money for which you just tell people they have no right to know what the hell is going on.

no-one in their right mind just shuts up and lets the other party just stonewall when this sort of money is involved, unless they're a damn fool.

There's a difference between stonewalling and not having any further information. We have allowed customers as well as Bobsag3 visit our facilities and post photos. We really have nothing to hide but we also have nothing to report at the moment either.

As I said earlier, I'm looking for more information. I will speak with our engineering team to see where we're at.

I appreciate that everyone is eager to learn more about where we're at.

edit: I also wanted to say that just because my status here shows me as being online does not mean I'm looking at this thread. I have this tab open all the time so whenever I'm on this machine I'm shown as online here. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring anyone when it shows me as being online but not posting.

[Stedsm]

 I would argue there is difference between not having new info and not being allowed to repeat or given new info as I suspect is the case. Either the Minion has taped out or it hasn't. Both answers would be new info for us but maybe BA just doesn't put any importance to it like most other manufactures.

Maybe you could answer this;is the quote by Dyslexiczombie from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339163.0  true or false?



"I assisted in the launch of the BA Bullet Run and our co-op holds the rights to the exclusive Group Buy for x-3 Prospero GBs in February. They're not 3rd party boards - its a nearly complete test of the new BA Prospero design being launched in late February.

This allowed them to do a limited size test of their entire design and assembly process sans the Minion chip, while working with bobsag3 to troubleshoot problems and iron out issues (it also allowed our co-op members access to Bullet Run Prosperos 3-4 months ahead of the full launch).

The main difference is that this Bullet Run that's currently hashing uses 55nm Bitfury chips, while the February Prosperos will be using their own 28nm Minion ASIC. Everything I've seen/heard so far is that they still appear to be on track for a late February launch of their Minion Prosperos (in fact, absolutely no promises and don't hold this as holy gospel, but I understand that this is a conservative target date; as there's been too much over promising and underdelivery in this industry, as a whole)."
   

[Syke]

There's a difference between stonewalling and not having any further information. We have allowed customers as well as Bobsag3 visit our facilities and post photos. We really have nothing to hide but we also have nothing to report at the moment either.

Unfortunately, no news means you have not taped-out. Please explain how you can still be on track. There's a limit to how fast wafers can be produced.

[Cheshyr]

There's a difference between stonewalling and not having any further information. We have allowed customers as well as Bobsag3 visit our facilities and post photos. We really have nothing to hide but we also have nothing to report at the moment either.

Unfortunately, no news means you have not taped-out. Please explain how you can still be on track. There's a limit to how fast wafers can be produced.

No news means they haven't gotten an update from their foundry; it doesn't mean nothing is happening.  That said, CNY always throws a wrench in things.  Seeing as it's 4:30a in China right now, we can probably give Matt a few hours rest this weekend, and wait for him to get news from the engineers.

[Cheshyr]

Both Matt's and Blackarrow's "local time" on their profile is 8:30PM, so it sounds like they're in Europe, not China.

Blackarrow may be in Europe, but I believe their foundry is in China.  Regardless, I doubt Matt works in the foundry, and I'd be surprised if anyone was answering phone calls or emails at 8:30p on a Saturday, so the point remains the same.

[Syke]

No news means they haven't gotten an update from their foundry; it doesn't mean nothing is happening.  That said, CNY always throws a wrench in things.  Seeing as it's 4:30a in China right now, we can probably give Matt a few hours rest this weekend, and wait for him to get news from the engineers.

You think their foundry taped-out weeks ago and put the wafers into production yet never notified them? Seriously?

[Cheshyr]

No news means they haven't gotten an update from their foundry; it doesn't mean nothing is happening.  That said, CNY always throws a wrench in things.  Seeing as it's 4:30a in China right now, we can probably give Matt a few hours rest this weekend, and wait for him to get news from the engineers.

You think their foundry taped-out weeks ago and put the wafers into production yet never notified them? Seriously?

I think they made revisions to their design to meet their efficiency goals, took them back to their foundry and said 'change the masks to make this happen, and please do it quickly'.  I have no other insight into the communication protocols or expectations they have established with their foundry, so I'm not going to hazard a guess.  Maybe he has information, maybe he doesn't.  I can think of a number of non-technical reasons why they wouldn't announce their tapeout here.  I don't think we're going to hear anything from him in the next 36 hours regardless.

[merv77]

I'm sure that BlackArrow is in Shenzhen China and as you know they're in CNY mode.  China shuts down from the 26th for I think a couple of weeks

[Adrians__]

I was planning picking my up at the factory the 24. of February.
But with the news in this thread I am not sure booking a ticket is such a good idea.

[erk]

I was planning picking my up at the factory the 24. of February.
But with the news in this thread I am not sure booking a ticket is such a good idea.

I bet you were not. Nobody can be that noob, even with only 5 posts.

[terrapinflyer]

I was planning picking my up at the factory the 24. of February.
But with the news in this thread I am not sure booking a ticket is such a good idea.

I bet you were not. Nobody can be that noob, even with only 5 posts.

erk strikes again!

[Unacceptable]

I was planning picking my up at the factory the 24. of February.
But with the news in this thread I am not sure booking a ticket is such a good idea.

I bet you were not. Nobody can be that noob, even with only 5 posts.

erk strikes again!

LMAO    You tell that newbie erk!!!!!!!!!!   

[karanveer]

why the x-1 miner for purchase a minimum of 10???
and its for the home miner?
shouldn't you bring that down?

[erk]

why the x-1 miner for purchase a minimum of 10???
and its for the home miner?
shouldn't you bring that down?

It's called wholesale. Get 10 home users to buy one each, or go to one of the Black Arrow resellers like normal people do.

[BlackArrow Matt]

why the x-1 miner for purchase a minimum of 10???
and its for the home miner?
shouldn't you bring that down?

It's called wholesale. Get 10 home users to buy one each, or go to one of the Black Arrow resellers like normal people do.

Actually if you get 10 users to buy one each that'd be a group buy... which isn't allowed. Our resellers are the only option if you want fewer than 10 X-1's.

I'm still digging for information guys. Sorry about the delay.

[erk]

why the x-1 miner for purchase a minimum of 10???
and its for the home miner?
shouldn't you bring that down?

It's called wholesale. Get 10 home users to buy one each, or go to one of the Black Arrow resellers like normal people do.

Actually if you get 10 users to buy one each that'd be a group buy... which isn't allowed. Our resellers are the only option if you want fewer than 10 X-1's.

I'm still digging for information guys. Sorry about the delay.

Yeah, but you wouldn't know it was a group buy with only one person placing the order for 10.