[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[ffssixtynine]

I said what I wanted to say. What ken posted was clearly and intentionally misleading and he never replied to anyone until now despite numerous people asking about what was shipped and so on.

Now if he has a good reason (and he may) then he should come out with it, but having dealt with ken I expect it was for the reason I suggested, to help protect the company. That doesn't make it less illegal. Securities fraud includes spreading misleading information through the internet. You cannot get out of it by saying he didn't explicitly say miners, mentioned delayed chips, and so on. You can't claim it was a good pr job. He had plenty of time to put people right as well.

That doesn't mean he won't come good or that this the business is a scam, and for the record I don't believe this to be the case. However, it reflects extremely badly on the CEO and creates a legal minefield.

All bitcoin securities are in a legal grey area and particularly if based in Belize, but the sec do care about fraud or investors losing money. They would likely only make a move if it got serious enough and they thought they could wade through the grey areas, which is unlikely to be easy.

Even so, this cannot happen again and it's appalling that it happened in the first place. It was an incredibly stupid and risky thing to do.

I really hope he comes through in the next few weeks with a lot of good news.

Ken, for fuck's sake, you just have to tell it straight sometimes.

[minerpart]

He shipped product. Deal with it man.

Did he say he shipped miners? No.

Does he have to correct speculation on this thread? No.

'Case closed.'

[Vigil]

Why would you ship empty cases in wait for cards that you knew were not even on the horizon?

[SebastianJu]

See my post above Seb.

My personal view - it was chips from a first batch that were shipped. They would have some value and we clearly don't seem to be hashing with them so Ken filled an early order. If they met the advertised spec the customer will be happy - if not they would have got them at a discount I'm sure.

I really dont believe that. It would mean tapeout already happened. Ken once let it sound in IRC like we would have done a successful test with a prototype but since then nothing was heard from that miner. So i doubt there are chips at all yet. Tapeout should be the most expensive part in the Asic-Game and i dont think that he first develops a chip and then develops the next. If there was a tapeout for the old chips already then it would be cheap to create more of the old chips and we would already mine.
So i dont think he shipped chips. It would simply be too expensive to test 2 designs of chips. He mentioned no miner was shipped so it wasnt a prototype either. That let me asking what happened to the prototype. Or was there never one? And shipping empty cases for 8000USD? I would be angry if i get an empty case when i await running miners. Not one single customer complained about something like that.

Maybe he shipped some cables or stickers or so but nothing that would be worth mentioning in a status update and letting it sound that "the product" starts shipping. This is a miner producer so the product are miners. I agree that it would be really misleading when no own asic chips or miners were shipped.

[JoTheKhan]

Can you even call it a product if the full package hasn't been sent? Can I send you just a power supply when you order the whole PC and I say that I have shipped a product?

You guys need to stop acting biased, you're not helping anyone. Take your emotions out of the equation and look at the situation straight.

[Flashman]

Again he definitely invites and potential customer or shareholder to come meet with him

What? Jedi mind tricks don't work over the internet?

Just kidding, it's the way you write it.

[Thumper650]

The CEO is not allowed to mislead shareholders or buyers. The law is very strict on this.

I agree with the law. However I disagree that he has intentionally misled anyone. The language he used is very clear and concise. He said we had shipped 'products'. He did not say we had shipped miners!
...

ROFL

Didn't crumbs say exactly the same thing?  Back then the shrewd financiers of this thread called it FUD, now they're using the same words to save face.
And, to keep the lulz coming, Bargraphics tells everyone that he got good feels from Ken.  Almost as good as he got from the Terrahash kids.

How To Invest Like A Pro, by Bargraphics:

1.  Give all of your money to a guy on the internet.
2.  After half a year goes by, everything turns to shit, and there is no chance left to unload your shrewd investment, find out what you invested in with a personal visit.
3.  ? ? ?
4.  Profit!

[minerpart]

I lose all hope sometimes in this thread.

You could attack any company on Wall Street by finding 'exaggerations' in their news releases. Business is very often all about talking up your own company's product or sales or forecasts. Do you all live in a cave? Do any of you know how real business operates in the real world?

When a business releases a vague or exaggerated statement they do so to create good PR. Look at the statement from Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne today:

"I've been hearing from people all over the world — cult followers of Bitcoin — who say they are going to shift all of their shopping to Overstock.com,"

Do any of you actually believe that is true? Do you even think it has to be true to prevent him ending up in court? It's PR - something that makes the company look good.

Now please continue to talk down the company you hold shares in. Who needs Trolls when we have you lot.

[zumzero]

I said what I wanted to say. What ken posted was clearly and intentionally misleading and he never replied to anyone until now despite numerous people asking about what was shipped and so on.

Now if he has a good reason (and he may) then he should come out with it, but having dealt with ken I expect it was for the reason I suggested, to help protect the company. That doesn't make it less illegal. Securities fraud includes spreading misleading information through the internet. You cannot get out of it by saying he didn't explicitly say miners, mentioned delayed chips, and so on. You can't claim it was a good pr job. He had plenty of time to put people right as well.

That doesn't mean he won't come good or that this the business is a scam, and for the record I don't believe this to be the case. However, it reflects extremely badly on the CEO and creates a legal minefield.

All bitcoin securities are in a legal grey area and particularly if based in Belize, but the sec do care about fraud or investors losing money. They would likely only make a move if it got serious enough and they thought they could wade through the grey areas, which is unlikely to be easy.

Even so, this cannot happen again and it's appalling that it happened in the first place. It was an incredibly stupid and risky thing to do.

I really hope he comes through in the next few weeks with a lot of good news.

Ken, for fuck's sake, you just have to tell it straight sometimes.

What the fuck are you playing at FFS69? Do you think this shit stirring is doing any of us any favours?  You sold your shares and fucked off remember?  So now you are back to get Ken in trouble with the law and that serves the current shareholders interests, how exactly?  What exactly IS your game?  So answer me, did you and your merry band of Advisors sell your ActM shares before or after you all resigned your positions and fucked off to NEO?

I'm reading the language in your posts and in between the lines I'm smelling bullshit.

"I really hope he comes through in the next few weeks with a lot of good news.".  These are your words, now tell me why do you, '"..really hope..".  Is it because as a NON shareholder you have shareholders best interests at heart?  I think not.

[ffssixtynine]

Sorry zum, I know how you feel and I know this is probably aggravating you which I don't mean. I have no interest beyond wanting to see ken do things right and people not be mislead.

I also think ken himself needs telling not to be so daft sometimes. He will likely admit it himself. What he did here was a serious error of judgement and is another example of why he needs some help.

However much you believe in ken, you cannot have the CEO making mistakes like this. Perhaps he should hire you to help!

[minerpart]

What he did here was a serious error of judgement IMHO

Fixed that for you.

[kslaughter]

Sorry zum, I know how you feel and I know this is probably aggravating you which I don't mean. I have no interest beyond wanting to see ken do things right and people not be mislead.

I also think ken himself needs telling not to be so daft sometimes. He will likely admit it himself. What he did here was a serious error of judgement and is another example of why he needs some help.

However much you believe in ken, you cannot have the CEO making mistakes like this. Perhaps he should hire you to help!

I see that you did not say what your timing was when you sold your shares.  Mostly likely you sold because of being on the board and having inside information. 

[Bitdust]

Sorry zum, I know how you feel and I know this is probably aggravating you which I don't mean. I have no interest beyond wanting to see ken do things right and people not be mislead.

I also think ken himself needs telling not to be so daft sometimes. He will likely admit it himself. What he did here was a serious error of judgement and is another example of why he needs some help.

However much you believe in ken, you cannot have the CEO making mistakes like this. Perhaps he should hire you to help!

I see that you did not say what your timing was when you sold your shares.  Mostly likely you sold because of being on the board and having inside information. 

This is an Inception layer cake of stupid.

[minerpart]

lol good one Ken. He is the Pot calling the Kettle black.



F-Off Bitdust, you are not even a shareholder.

[zumzero]

I asked the question twice and on both times got no response from FFS69.  Just goes to show that for some people it's easier to call some dishonest than display attributes of honesty themselves.

[Bitdust]

lol good one Ken. He is the Pot calling the Kettle black.



F-Off Bitdust, you are not even a shareholder.

No one with an IQ out of the single digits is a "shareholder" in this ridiculousness.

[minerpart]

Fine, so why you here?

Please don't answer that - just F-Off.

[CanadianGuy]

Sorry zum, I know how you feel and I know this is probably aggravating you which I don't mean. I have no interest beyond wanting to see ken do things right and people not be mislead.

I also think ken himself needs telling not to be so daft sometimes. He will likely admit it himself. What he did here was a serious error of judgement and is another example of why he needs some help.

However much you believe in ken, you cannot have the CEO making mistakes like this. Perhaps he should hire you to help!

I see that you did not say what your timing was when you sold your shares.  Mostly likely you sold because of being on the board and having inside information. 

You're getting yourself into more trouble again.     The board was never intended to have inside information, you said that yourself when you started it.

[minerpart]

I think it was a joke dude. You are just too slow to get it. FF69 said last week in a large post on here he had no more info that the rest of us. All the ex-Board members have said the same. They advised about strategic decisions. The only stuff they knew about was potential product line choices and that was to advise on it.

[ffssixtynine]

I said months ago that I sold them when I quit and I have had no ActM shares since then.

I'm also not going to get into an argument with you ken because despite what you may think, I actually want you to make this work. However, it's depressing seeing a mistake like that happen and it's a symptom of you needing help running your business rather than it all being on your shoulders. This is the kind of mistake that shouldn't be happening.