Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[Searing]

Agreed that they really need to provide a bit more proof of tech before collecting balances. I'm leaning towards not paying mine and seeing what happens.

use a cc you get 45 days with amex (i think another 15 or so after you file a dispute)

what I am doing.....gives me protection thru July if they can't/late/or won't ship in time

Searing

 (only prudent 30% paypal cc ..last 70% w/no paypal option cc card)

Hey Searing, could you clarify the Amex protection?

I'm not sure how it works in the states but in the UK, not all CC companies are jointly liable when using chargeback, its not the same as section 75 of the consumer credit act where they are.

What this means is you have to recover the money from the company, through their bank.. The CC company is not legally required to pay it back themselves. This means if Alpha dispute your claim, ie they say their terms and conditions state delivery in Q2/ Q3 not specifically July, or they go bankrupt and the money is not recoverable. You may not receive a penny.

You should also note that Alpha are claiming they only sell to businesses and you are not a consumer it their eyes, so you should ask Amex to clarify its position on chargebacks for business purchases.

Any UK customers need to keep this in mind when paying with a credit card. You also need to know, going through a third party processor ie paypal or payza negates section 75 protection and possibly chargeback protection so check with your CC company.

you are likely correct...I am looking at it more from the point if they pull a BFL intentional or otherwise and CAN'T SHIP IN JULY....if it ships end of July and I won't get it till August actual..I will likely get Amex to dump for not getting item according to timeline

that much will likely work

as to the bankruptcy etc..yeah I'm screwed....and the cc they have going is going thru a bank..so prob should ask amex if that makes a diff ..going thru a bank and UK and also ask if a biz etc..but really I'd think if they don't ship in July Amex would honor me with a refund for not gettting it on time...they actually said 'if you don't get the item on time' you can cancel

anyway always a risk...but only real option I have now unless I write off $450 bucks of the 667.18 already sent to them

anyway it is the only 'card' i have left to play protection wise if it all goes south

(the fun and drama of bitcoin....jeez)

Searing

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[9600]

Okay. So I'm right there with everyone else. Not paying a dime until we get a little more feedback from Alpha. (It's been over two weeks without an update during a time when updates are absolutely essential!) But, can we also talk about the fact that ROI might not happen on the principle that the Altcoin ecosystem won't be able to handle the sheer number of coins generated by the release of incredibly powerful SCRYPT asics?

If it looked like a merchant processor such as Coinbase or Bitpay was going to start taking LTC then I would imagine some growth in value. But even with Charles Lee working at Coinbase since July, there is no clear-cut plan to introduce Litecoin as it's simply too confusing for the consumer.

That aside, who is going to buy all of these altcoins on the market when miners inevitably want to wash them away to a more secure crypto or pull out to fiat later this year?

The BTC eco system can't really be used as a case study for asic introduction as by the time FPGAs and ASIC miners were on sale, we already had relatively wide-scale merchant adoption.

[brian_23452]

That aside, who is going to buy all of these altcoins on the market when miners inevitably want to wash them away to a more secure crypto or pull out to fiat later this year?
The BTC eco system can't really be used as a case study for asic introduction as by the time FPGAs and ASIC miners were on sale, we already had relatively wide-scale merchant adoption.

The same exact people who are buying them now I assume.  Not really sure why that would change.  At one point I wondered why people would continue to buy shitcoins that were obviously going nowhere, ever, but then, I also thought the same thing about preorders and yet here we are 

[Phorna]

Okay. So I'm right there with everyone else. Not paying a dime until we get a little more feedback from Alpha. (It's been over two weeks without an update during a time when updates are absolutely essential!) But, can we also talk about the fact that ROI might not happen on the principle that the Altcoin ecosystem won't be able to handle the sheer number of coins generated by the release of incredibly powerful SCRYPT asics?

If it looked like a merchant processor such as Coinbase or Bitpay was going to start taking LTC then I would imagine some growth in value. But even with Charles Lee working at Coinbase since July, there is no clear-cut plan to introduce Litecoin as it's simply too confusing for the consumer.

That aside, who is going to buy all of these altcoins on the market when miners inevitably want to wash them away to a more secure crypto or pull out to fiat later this year?

The BTC eco system can't really be used as a case study for asic introduction as by the time FPGAs and ASIC miners were on sale, we already had relatively wide-scale merchant adoption.

Well, good thing is that supply of coins won't be changed with new asics arrival. Only difficulty will go up. Supply is the same if the coin is mined just by one geek with old laptop or by hundreds of mega asics farms.

[MadisonC]

A lot I information is in the updates.

[vesperwillow]

2 Weeks without any word from them.

No discussion of the CE issue. (has anyone asked them on their forum?)

They didn't even come back here to talk about payment options, only mentioned that the CC option should eventually work.

As that user said 2 pages back, the silence is deafening.

[lucaing]

i sent them an email 2 days ago to cancel my order that i still didn't pay and to ask for a refund of the pre order.

No answer yet!

 

[Cleveland Evans]

July is fantastic news.  So excited for a low heat summer.

[lajz99]

July is fantastic news.  So excited for a low heat summer.

Have you lost your damn mind son?

[Cleveland Evans]

Wait and see, thanks

[retro72]

I've been lurking on their forums again, an IP ban is pretty easy to get around.

I managed to shame Fiaz into posting on the "Chip status" thread before getting banned again. It really wasn't worth it though. Here's what he wrote:

"Apologies for the delay, we are very busy with orders but very soon we will have a big update releasing fulls specs and more details".

Not too busy to spend all day on the forums arguing and banning people, just too busy to answer a really important thread.  Looks like more stall tactics from Alpha until they can scrape together enough money to pay the bills.

By the way I talked to the Citizens Advice Bureau again today. I updated them on the situation. They have flagged the case "criminal withholding of consumer rights" and passed it on to Trading Standards. They'll contact me in 5-10 working days if they decide the case has merit. Anyone who is NOT A BUSINESS and has or is having their refund, partially or fully withheld should contact them direct on 08454 040506 or fill out the form on their website

https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

You need to complain. Not just post on forums. The more people who bring this to their attention the faster it will get resolved.

Some of us got together on the Cointerra forum and complained to the Better Business Bureau and they issued a warning to the press (http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-bbb-bitcoin-warning-20140605-story.html). Cointerra were getting slammed so hard they had to shut their forums down and guys who had been waiting months are finally getting refunded.


Just to be clear. If you are not a business customer you are entitled to a 100% REFUND UNDER UK LAW.

If you are unhappy with the refund situation contact the CAB and complain. Unlike the BBB, Trading Standards has the ability to bring criminal charges. They take this sort of thing very seriously in the UK.

[vesperwillow]

Well done retro, a service to the community. Hopefully this is helpful.

[Meanotor]

In my mind these have become synonyms:

"We have a big announcement"

"We have another empty promise"

"We want to make fun of you once again"

n e hoooo
I have my own business but for the life of me i can't remember being asked that question when i purchased.
What reinforces this memory is many people who purchased did not know the offer was for business only, so to speak.
so what are my options? I don't care about the refund, all i want is them to deliver or being someone's GF behind bars.

[brian_23452]

In my mind these have become synonyms:

"We have a big announcement"

"We have another empty promise"

"We want to make fun of you once again"

n e hoooo
I have my own business but for the life of me i can't remember being asked that question when i purchased.
What reinforces this memory is many people who purchased did not know the offer was for business only, so to speak.
so what are my options? I don't care about the refund, all i want is them to deliver or being someone's GF behind bars.

No one knew because these things WEREN'T for businesses.  It is fairly obvious to an impartial observer that these were marketed to consumers not businesses and to claim it is for businesses is just a flimsy attempt to get around consumer protection laws. 

[AnaSardinha]

In my mind these have become synonyms:

"We have a big announcement"

"We have another empty promise"

"We want to make fun of you once again"

n e hoooo
I have my own business but for the life of me i can't remember being asked that question when i purchased.
What reinforces this memory is many people who purchased did not know the offer was for business only, so to speak.
so what are my options? I don't care about the refund, all i want is them to deliver or being someone's GF behind bars.

I'm sorry, I've been distracted for a while but I'm back to monitoring Alpha, and just wanted to ask, what is this about the offer being for business? I don't see any new posts on their forum, I'm suspecting something happened? Did they refuse a refund saying it was for businesses only that option? Sorry if I'm confusing everything but just want to make sure I know what's going on

[brian_23452]

In my mind these have become synonyms:

"We have a big announcement"

"We have another empty promise"

"We want to make fun of you once again"

n e hoooo
I have my own business but for the life of me i can't remember being asked that question when i purchased.
What reinforces this memory is many people who purchased did not know the offer was for business only, so to speak.
so what are my options? I don't care about the refund, all i want is them to deliver or being someone's GF behind bars.

I'm sorry, I've been distracted for a while but I'm back to monitoring Alpha, and just wanted to ask, what is this about the offer being for business? I don't see any new posts on their forum, I'm suspecting something happened? Did they refuse a refund saying it was for businesses only that option? Sorry if I'm confusing everything but just want to make sure I know what's going on

Retro may be able to explain it better but, Alpha was only ever offering partial refunds for cancelled orders, with the exact amount being determined by when you cancel.  But this is apparently against consumer protection laws in the UK; they are required by law to provide a full refund.  When he mentioned this, Alpha responded that consumer protection laws only apply to consumers, not businesses, and that these products were not intended for consumers, only for businesses, and so the law doesn't apply. 
Naturally though, it doesn't much matter what Alpha considers you, but rather what the regulatory agency considers you, and while I am not especially familiar with UK law I can't imagine that this excuse will have much credibility.

[AnaSardinha]

In my mind these have become synonyms:

"We have a big announcement"

"We have another empty promise"

"We want to make fun of you once again"

n e hoooo
I have my own business but for the life of me i can't remember being asked that question when i purchased.
What reinforces this memory is many people who purchased did not know the offer was for business only, so to speak.
so what are my options? I don't care about the refund, all i want is them to deliver or being someone's GF behind bars.

I'm sorry, I've been distracted for a while but I'm back to monitoring Alpha, and just wanted to ask, what is this about the offer being for business? I don't see any new posts on their forum, I'm suspecting something happened? Did they refuse a refund saying it was for businesses only that option? Sorry if I'm confusing everything but just want to make sure I know what's going on

Retro may be able to explain it better but, Alpha was only ever offering partial refunds for cancelled orders, with the exact amount being determined by when you cancel.  But this is apparently against consumer protection laws in the UK; they are required by law to provide a full refund.  When he mentioned this, Alpha responded that consumer protection laws only apply to consumers, not businesses, and that these products were not intended for consumers, only for businesses, and so the law doesn't apply. 
Naturally though, it doesn't much matter what Alpha considers you, but rather what the regulatory agency considers you, and while I am not especially familiar with UK law I can't imagine that this excuse will have much credibility.

Ty for that explanation! Didn't knew that and it may come in handy 

[lucaing]

I've been lurking on their forums again, an IP ban is pretty easy to get around.

I managed to shame Fiaz into posting on the "Chip status" thread before getting banned again. It really wasn't worth it though. Here's what he wrote:

"Apologies for the delay, we are very busy with orders but very soon we will have a big update releasing fulls specs and more details".

Not too busy to spend all day on the forums arguing and banning people, just too busy to answer a really important thread.  Looks like more stall tactics from Alpha until they can scrape together enough money to pay the bills.

By the way I talked to the Citizens Advice Bureau again today. I updated them on the situation. They have flagged the case "criminal withholding of consumer rights" and passed it on to Trading Standards. They'll contact me in 5-10 working days if they decide the case has merit. Anyone who is NOT A BUSINESS and has or is having their refund, partially or fully withheld should contact them direct on 08454 040506 or fill out the form on their website

https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

You need to complain. Not just post on forums. The more people who bring this to their attention the faster it will get resolved.

Some of us got together on the Cointerra forum and complained to the Better Business Bureau and they issued a warning to the press (http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-bbb-bitcoin-warning-20140605-story.html). Cointerra were getting slammed so hard they had to shut their forums down and guys who had been waiting months are finally getting refunded.


Just to be clear. If you are not a business customer you are entitled to a 100% REFUND UNDER UK LAW.

If you are unhappy with the refund situation contact the CAB and complain. Unlike the BBB, Trading Standards has the ability to bring criminal charges. They take this sort of thing very seriously in the UK.

Thank you very much for the informations!!
The law is valid for EU citizens only or even for extra EU citizens? i think it's valid for everyone because their business is located in UK, am i right?

[retro72]

@lucaing. Yes you are right.

What brian_23452 said is pretty much spot on. They are dishonestly claiming the products are only for business use, even though they are selling to consumers. Furthermore this position has evolved, as when initially asked why full refunds weren't given, they said on Jan 10: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.msg94545#msg94545


"In regards to DSR. 7 days after you RECEIVE your product you are entitled to a FULL refund including deposit. This is once final payment is made.

That has no relevance with deposits pre final payment and pre shipping. If a customer decides after agreeing to our set agreements to pay the deposit. And then decides they do not want the product or want to pay final payment. They forfeit the deposit and by law we are allowed to take full deposit. But once again as a courtesy we are giving back deposits as well.

Please do your due diligence and full research. We have checked and confirmed all our rules via the international regulations.

You should contact the DSR and any authorities regarding this case for your self satisfaction.

Alpha Technology Team"

This is complete bullshit and was quickly discredited, so they changed it to this on March 24: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg5875510#msg5875510

"You are not classed as a consumer to us. Our devices are sold and are classed for business use, cryptocurrency mining earnings in the UK is classed as income and is taxable, our units are used purely for mining, therefore every customer is classed as a business-user. It is your duty to register as a business and class your mining earnings from our devices to the relevant governing bodies. As we are selling for business use only therefore our terms of conditions are what you have to comply by as you accepted before you ordered."

More bullshit. None of this is in even in their T&C's. Even if it was, it doesn't matter. As Alpha are selling to consumers. What the product could be used for is irrelevant. If you are not buying through a business and the product is for your own private use, YOU ARE CLASSED AS A CONSUMER.

As alpha are not strictly a B2B supplier pretty much EVERYTHING in their T&C's is irrelevant and superseded by UK law.

You can see a clear evolution as they make up policy as they go along to avoid paying refunds and flout UK consumer law.
As they are a UK registered company they are bound by the law of the UK. In this case the Distance Selling Regulations 2000. Even if you do not live in the UK or the EU, the law applies as Alpha are based in the UK.

Email Alpha stating that you had intended to use the product for private personal use and not for business. If they are a decent, honest company they should void your order and issue a full refund. They won't of course but you will have their reply on record. I hope this helps

[AnaSardinha]

@lucaing. Yes you are right.

What brian_23452 said is pretty much spot on. They are dishonestly claiming the products are only for business use, even though they are selling to consumers. Furthermore this position has evolved, as when initially asked why full refunds weren't given, they said on Jan 10: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859.msg94545#msg94545


"In regards to DSR. 7 days after you RECEIVE your product you are entitled to a FULL refund including deposit. This is once final payment is made.

That has no relevance with deposits pre final payment and pre shipping. If a customer decides after agreeing to our set agreements to pay the deposit. And then decides they do not want the product or want to pay final payment. They forfeit the deposit and by law we are allowed to take full deposit. But once again as a courtesy we are giving back deposits as well.

Please do your due diligence and full research. We have checked and confirmed all our rules via the international regulations.

You should contact the DSR and any authorities regarding this case for your self satisfaction.

Alpha Technology Team"

This is complete bullshit and was quickly discredited, so they changed it to this on March 24: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg5875510#msg5875510

"You are not classed as a consumer to us. Our devices are sold and are classed for business use, cryptocurrency mining earnings in the UK is classed as income and is taxable, our units are used purely for mining, therefore every customer is classed as a business-user. It is your duty to register as a business and class your mining earnings from our devices to the relevant governing bodies. As we are selling for business use only therefore our terms of conditions are what you have to comply by as you accepted before you ordered."

More bullshit. None of this is in even in their T&C's. Even if it was, it doesn't matter. As Alpha selling to consumers. What the product could be used for is irrelevant. If you are not buying through a business and the product is for your own private use, YOU ARE CLASSED AS A CONSUMER.

As alpha are not strictly a B2B supplier pretty much EVERYTHING in their T&C's is irrelevant and superseded by UK law.

You can see a clear evolution as they make up policy as they go along to avoid paying refunds and flout UK consumer law.
As they are a UK registered company they are bound by the law of the UK. In this case the Distance Selling Regulations 2000. Even if you do not live in the UK or the EU, the law applies as Alpha are based in the UK.

Email Alpha stating that you had intended to use the product for private personal use and not for business. If they are a decent, honest company they should void your order and issue a full refund. They won't of course but you will have their reply on record. I hope this helps

Let me just say: Ty for your awesomeness!!
(I'm too tired to be more articulate but wanted to show my appreciation for this  )