Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[Its About Sharing]

In browsing the official AT forums (looking for perhaps good news which has been missed), instead I noticed that it's been mentioned this week that the units will no longer be standalone. Now, I might've missed that in an update, but isn't that kindof defeating the majority of the original design?

They were supposed to be rack mountable, or stackable however you want, simply provide a power cable and your mining details. Totally self sufficient, including wifi or ethernet. Now they're not only wired but there's no central comptroller. You'll have to connect them to a computer or another similar device. So they're acting like really large gridseed / blade units basically.

I half expect to hear they'll be shipping soon, but that you'll need your own reflow oven to put them together. Projected shipping date is no later than 31 July.

I would hope the guys at AT set out with good intentions and that the mistakes made along the way were just that and due to being in a new field.
The wording of the contract is worrying but unfortunately it is a tried and true method, but still not right.

Now ALL the posts of Fiaz have been deleted and my normal "in the middle" outlook has shifted. They have to really have a unit before they see my money, or something that gives me the confidence to send it to them. And even then, LTC is not doing well, so this is a bit deeper now. Still, no announcement that I have seen regarding the posts being deleted and the AT forum is awfully quite, so I wonder about posts being deleted there as well.

Regarding the rack mountable - I think we have to thank the guys here, I forget who first mentioned the CE certification, but that appears to be the reason for the change (PS on outside). What is odd and conflicting is that AT says we are not consumers but are businesses. Well, if that is true, should they have rack mountable (easily) units? I am not sure on the units going in racks now. Not an issue with me, or even most here I would think, but a bit ironic.

Not true about connecting them to a computer, you don't need to. You will be able to SSH in to the units as far as I understand. They took it off the table and then put it back on (minus some other bells and whistles), so I think you are talking about that first announcement (I hope). I don't feel like going through the Raspberry Pi again, was fun at first but I want things simpler, like I agreed to here.

Again, the next 2 weeks or so are going to be huge. If this were the early days of mining gear most would not be as alarmed, but since problems have abounded people are being more careful with their money.

IAS

[vesperwillow]

If you read their last update once more you can find that, the statement self says the shipment will only start on 31July.

Like I said, this was from Fiaz on his own forum lastnight. Just going by what he claims.

Regarding the rack mountable - I think we have to thank the guys here, I forget who first mentioned the CE certification, but that appears to be the reason for the change (PS on outside). What is odd and conflicting is that AT says we are not consumers but are businesses. Well, if that is true, should they have rack mountable (easily) units? I am not sure on the units going in racks now. Not an issue with me, or even most here I would think, but a bit ironic.

I think I was the first to mention that. But you know what's sad? THEY didn't think about it/realize it. They're the one designing equipment to go round the world, and they weren't aware of a basic requirement of electronics engineering for their own country? I don't even live in the UK and I'm aware. Does that speak volumes about them or what?

Speaking of rack mountable, go look at the picture of their final design for their systems on their website. It shows a 1U design. Then look at their case design in their forum, it looks like an ATX case. Totally not the same design. In fact, with them placing PCIE connectors on the outside of the box/edge, it sounds like they're using a KNC design, go look at the Jupiters from lastyear. That's how the Viper case design looks.

They're literally piecing this together as they go along, flying by the seat of their chair. There was no long term design, and if there was they had no idea what they were doing.

Not true about connecting them to a computer, you don't need to. You will be able to SSH in to the units as far as I understand. They took it off the table and then put it back on (minus some other bells and whistles), so I think you are talking about that first announcement (I hope). I don't feel like going through the Raspberry Pi again, was fun at first but I want things simpler, like I agreed to here.

I'm going off of what Fiaz said lastnight (6/24) in one of the updates / questions part of their forum. They took out the comptroller (the device you could ssh into). Another person on their forum asked how it would be controlled, and it was mentioned that it would likely be connected to a computer. He mentioned that the webgui was coming back. I think I'm even being confused as to what they're including and excluding at this point, because they took the webgui out awhile back.

[s1gs3gv]

I forget who first mentioned the CE certification, but that appears to be the reason for the change (PS on outside).
IAS

There was a brief exchange on the KNC thread about CE certification or the absence of it with the Neptune and the conclusion of it was that the EU directive requiring CE certification wasn't applicable to 12 volt devices. I'm not an expert in the area so I haven't come to a conclusion. However, when discussing these things it would be good to provide links or references to the actual requirements so that the facts of the matter can be determined.

Hearsay and assumptions are wonderful things ...

[allcoinminer]

Unlike other companies who just does the manufacturing themselves expect chip,
this miner is completely manufactured in india by a company and ships it to alfaT as un-assembled parts.
AlfaT may not be getting proper updates from them. They may not give anything regarding manufacturing process.
That may be the reason for these confusions.

[brian_23452]

Unlike other companies who just does the manufacturing themselves expect chip,
this miner is completely manufactured in india by a company and ships it to alfaT as un-assembled parts.
AlfaT may not be getting proper updates from them. They may not give anything regarding manufacturing process.
That may be the reason for these confusions.

A better explanation is that Alpha T doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and they're just making it up as they go along. 

[vesperwillow]

I forget who first mentioned the CE certification, but that appears to be the reason for the change (PS on outside).
IAS

There was a brief exchange on the KNC thread about CE certification or the absence of it with the Neptune and the conclusion of it was that the EU directive requiring CE certification wasn't applicable to 12 volt devices. I'm not an expert in the area so I haven't come to a conclusion. However, when discussing these things it would be good to provide links or references to the actual requirements so that the facts of the matter can be determined.

Hearsay and assumptions are wonderful things ...

I agree. The CE cert stuff can easily be found on google, and it lists the categories, methods and requirements. There's even self certification paths. Even small USB Block Erupters are CE certified. Without the sticker, customs has played havoc in the past on mining equipment. Cointerra apparently ran into an issue with their devices, despite them being 12volt.

It's why I said that it's possible for AT to self-certify. Either way they have to measure emissions, check for potential failure faults, document all of it, etc. Customs may (should) then ask for this documentation for proof.

From what I understand, if they can document that all of the components in use are already CE certified, then all they have to do is provide that documentation and show they're using a case (to shield the system). If not all of their components have CE documentation already, they may be asked to provide it. Even though it's under 70VDC, it's a mass produced "finished" product for use by the public, so it will fall under some level of scrutiny.

Case in point, even the RaspberryPi ran into this exact same issue. It uses no more than 5VDC, but its distribution was barred in the UK until they certified it. Sources: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/raspberry-pi-needs-ce-certificatio-70202 & http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/03/first-batch-of-35-linux-computer-arrives-in-uk-awaiting-ce-compliance-testing/

As to the Drexcel comment from allcoin, I'd like to believe that, but wouldn't that mean Drexcel is being unprofessional? And they're handling the chip design, not everything else. AT is handling everything else.. overall design, project milestones, case, power supplies, software, etc. Drexcel's involvement doesn't excuse everything else, especially how they're ignoring folks lately, and changing/removing their official responses.

[vesperwillow]

I'll add that if they've done their homework and have been working on this from day 1, documenting all components, etc, then self certification or even getting a waiver, would cause no major delay.

[Pug]

-

[allcoinminer]

I suggest Alfa-T to to cut their PSU from the device "bundle" and allow the users to get their own PSU.
They are cut the price a little or add some extra Ghs or so with respect to the PSU price.
A lot of minors may already have PSU in hand.

The other thing I'm now thinking is whether they are with in the ROI projection ?
I never did the math for them since its scrypt. I'm more into btc.

[Searing]

Unlike other companies who just does the manufacturing themselves expect chip,
this miner is completely manufactured in india by a company and ships it to alfaT as un-assembled parts.
AlfaT may not be getting proper updates from them. They may not give anything regarding manufacturing process.
That may be the reason for these confusions.

A better explanation is that Alpha T doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and they're just making it up as they go along.  

this likely the case...i never doubted they were trying to pull this off but do doubt the expertise to do so and ship something between july 15th and aug 1st

anyway I see they STILL have no way to pay by credit card (they extended the time line) (this may have changed?)

anyway as far as me I asked for my amex card to refund the 30% on the Vyper 50mh...so far the only thing of note is that paypal flagged my account
and added a dispute w/o me initating it (I assume it was amex) and paypal anyway is treating it as fraud...had to reset all my stuff on paypal...so
still no info from Amex but looks like they are just gonna run with the situation as fraud in that I put 30% down via paypal and have no $$$ back
even if I did want to pay the remaining 70% w/o cc option or paypal...well the amex lady really really did not seem to like that as an option

er also called amex they say that paypal is out of it (or maybe I should say me) they are doing all the leg work i have to do nothing with paypal
(at least at this time again i'm pretty much in the dark)

but again no idea but where it stands now...by the time amex gets around to fixing this 4-6 weeks it likely will be moot ....i don't have a lot
of hope I will get any money back (except i can declare it a biz loss and eventually get 25% back) other then that I'm llikely out $400 usd.

Will let you all know if/when any of this is resolved but it is all Amex I'm in the dark (what else is new!)

hate these 'pesky' life lessons

Searing

[vesperwillow]

anyway I see they STILL have no way to pay by credit card (they extended the time line) (this may have changed?)

The last word on that I believe is their most recent update which "guarantees" they will have one up and running before the end of June. Fiaz also confirmed this in their forum in a few posts, saying that they actually expect it any hour, any day now. I think they said that there would be timeframe beyond that which people could pay.

[Searing]

anyway I see they STILL have no way to pay by credit card (they extended the time line) (this may have changed?)

The last word on that I believe is their most recent update which "guarantees" they will have one up and running before the end of June. Fiaz also confirmed this in their forum in a few posts, saying that they actually expect it any hour, any day now. I think they said that there would be timeframe beyond that which people could pay.

what made me jump was stringing everyone along on cc option till the 5 months  you get nothing back..on refund according to their own TOS..at that point i 'punted"...i paid with cc and paypal and according to the above rules i would have had to do a bank/wire xfer on the last 70% w/o any risk on their part..no cc anymore no paypal...i came in on one set of rules in order to get my $$  back the rules completely change so they have "no" risk....

also who in their right mind expects anyone to wait w/o a prototype no cc the phone stopped working (at least for awhile) no real info (at the point i dumped on amex was like middle of may last update) ...so i am 'supposed' to pay the last 70% w/o any redress 2 weeks before you ship product ...no chips no pics and no chance of refund if/when i pay of any of it at that point? I mean really!

naw....will take my chances with amex still have seen nothing to change my mind..they may pull it off but from the above it is like they did everything they could to get people to punt and try to keep the 30% down payment

not saying that is true..but don't look to hot imho

Searing

[Its About Sharing]

anyway I see they STILL have no way to pay by credit card (they extended the time line) (this may have changed?)

The last word on that I believe is their most recent update which "guarantees" they will have one up and running before the end of June. Fiaz also confirmed this in their forum in a few posts, saying that they actually expect it any hour, any day now. I think they said that there would be timeframe beyond that which people could pay.

Well, that is certainly good news and what many of us want. No reason for the customer to take any more risks.
If they have that unit running then I am very likely to take part. I can't excuse some of the practices, posts, their deletions, etc. but at least I hope they get some units running with proper certification (if necessary.)

Thx,
IAS

[retro72]

Well another week has gone by without a payment processor. Alpha have until Monday to meet their "Guarantee" of a CC payment option before July.

There have been wholesale thread deletions on the Alpha forum. I was following a thread earlier in which a customer, who claimed to have been a payment processor salesman for an ISO, asked why Alpha was finding it so hard to get a merchant account. He said it should take 2 days if Alpha passed the risk checks, but also offered a link to a list of payment processors who deal with high risk ventures. This thread was very quickly deleted.

If Alpha are on track and have nothing to hide why are they deleting threads, not replying to basic questions and are AWOL from their own forum (apart from when they pop in to delete threads and ban people).

I'm surprised there isn't more outrage from Alpha customers. Maybe they are waiting until Alpha actually miss the July shipping date. If that is the case be aware that for many of you the 5 month deadline will have passed and Alpha will refuse to refund you any of your money. If you are a consumer you will probably have to sue, if you are a business, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

[vesperwillow]

There have been wholesale thread deletions on the Alpha forum. I was following a thread earlier in which a customer, who claimed to have been a payment processor salesman for an ISO, asked why Alpha was finding it so hard to get a merchant account. He said it should take 2 days if Alpha passed the risk checks, but also offered a link to a list of payment processors who deal with high risk ventures. This thread was very quickly deleted.

Yeah.. I was wondering the same myself, and posted that up as a concern awhile back. There should be no issue getting a processor, unless there's something really wrong, or they're trying to hold out past their timeframe.

If the latter, this would let them "cancel" many unpaid orders, freeing the parts up for the orders they need to fulfill, and would reudce their overhead while providing them with essentially free donations (the now-lost deposits of customers).

[brian_23452]

Well I know I mentioned it before but the "guarantee" was obviously a lie.  They told their customers that they were trying to get a payment processor but that it was completely beyond their control, and then in the same breath said they guaranteed one by July.  Obviously one of those mutually exclusive declarations had to be a lie.  
I am going to stand by my original speculation that they never had any intention of getting a payment processor.  Taking credit cards means they have to do refunds as they would be forced by the CC company.  Not allowing credit cards allows them to play this "you're a business" game and make it as difficult as possible to get a refund, after luring in unsuspecting customers who thought they were protected with the refund guarantee.  

[vesperwillow]

And for anyone who doesn't believe a "worst case" scenario is actually possible, go research the Black Arrow fiasco. They've actually produced gear in the past, but this recent order has been a cluster of epic proportions. Including bum chips.

[retro72]

Worryingly, Alpha have changed their terms and conditions again.

Their original terms:

Payment:

"30% advance payment to be paid along with booking and registration. Balance payment of 70% shall be collected 8-10 weeks before shipment date. The exact shipment date shall be notified on our website."

This has been totally removed from their terms Notice "EXACT SHIPMENT DATE" will be posted on their website.

Google cache from 24 June :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

Payment:

"Regarding the remaining balance we will contact you and ask you to make payment, which you can pay using Bank Transfer, Bitcoins and a debit/credit card payment processor (if applicable to your country). You do not have to use the same method as you used to pay the deposit.

You will have 2 weeks to make the payment. If payment is not made within that period, we treat your order as cancelled, and the cancellation provisions set out below will apply. If you are outside of the permitted cancellation period at the point your order is cancelled for non-payment, we will refund 25% of the deposit, less the cancellation fee."

This states you have 2 weeks to pay and will receive 25% of your deposit after the 5 month deadline, and can pay by credit card.

Their terms today: https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/

Payment:

"As you are pre-ordering, you only have to pay a 30% deposit at the time you place your order. Regarding the remaining balance we will contact you and ask you to make payment. You will have 1 week to make the payment. If payment is not made within that period, we treat your order as cancelled, and the cancellation provisions set out below will apply."

Not only do you now have one week to pay, you will lose all of your deposit if you fail to pay after 5 months and the credit card option has been removed.

Still think these guys are legit?


 

[brian_23452]

See?  This is what I was talking about.  I know the ordinary average person pays little mind to TOS's and contracts and such, but companies meticulously plan every detail that goes into them.  This is what I was trying to say earlier, if a company put something in the contract, you can be certain they will take advantage of it if at all possible. 

[vesperwillow]

I'm confident they'll post something on Monday night. It'll include some major hardware update, and I bet they'll be requiring payments. And if they have a credit processor by then, they'll likely have some piece of hardware to show off to allay anyone's fears.

We'll see..