GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[Chef Ramsay]

So... when do people think GBTC shares will actually go for sale? For some reason I got the impression it was going to be yesterday/today.

It looks like no one really knows an answer. All we can do at this point is guess and trust people who have some experience in this field. I think it should happen within the next month, but I'm really not familiar with the processes required for such a trade.

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

If you check bitcoinwisdom, you can see that the market doesn't give a shit about this. And for good reason.

I'd give it a week before concluding what the market thinks about this.

Yeah, only now can these guys get into their accounts and decide what they want to do. I suspect some of them, at least, haven't been keeping up on things lately in their year long escapade like most of us have so it'll take some time to drum up a sound decision at this point.

[Biodom]

So... when do people think GBTC shares will actually go for sale? For some reason I got the impression it was going to be yesterday/today.

It looks like no one really knows an answer. All we can do at this point is guess and trust people who have some experience in this field. I think it should happen within the next month, but I'm really not familiar with the processes required for such a trade.

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

If you check bitcoinwisdom, you can see that the market doesn't give a shit about this. And for good reason.

I'd give it a week before concluding what the market thinks about this.

Yeah, only now can these guys get into their accounts and decide what they want to do. I suspect some of them, at least, haven't been keeping up on things lately in their year long escapade like most of us have so it'll take some time to drum up a sound decision at this point.

Smart GBTC investors will buy 'real' bitcoin while selling their "GBTC-bitcoin". At the minimum, they would be able to 'capture' loss, while fully replacing the underlying bitcoin.
Wash sale rule will probably not apply because they will be buying bitcoin, but selling a different asset (GBTC).
It is also possible that they will be able to sell GBTC at a higher price due to the interest from funds.

[jehst]

So... when do people think GBTC shares will actually go for sale? For some reason I got the impression it was going to be yesterday/today.

It looks like no one really knows an answer. All we can do at this point is guess and trust people who have some experience in this field. I think it should happen within the next month, but I'm really not familiar with the processes required for such a trade.

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

If you check bitcoinwisdom, you can see that the market doesn't give a shit about this. And for good reason.

I'd give it a week before concluding what the market thinks about this.

Yeah, only now can these guys get into their accounts and decide what they want to do. I suspect some of them, at least, haven't been keeping up on things lately in their year long escapade like most of us have so it'll take some time to drum up a sound decision at this point.

Smart GBTC investors will buy 'real' bitcoin while selling their "GBTC-bitcoin". At the minimum, they would be able to 'capture' loss, while fully replacing the underlying bitcoin.
Wash sale rule will probably not apply because they will be buying bitcoin, but selling a different asset (GBTC).
It is also possible that they will be able to sell GBTC at a higher price due to the interest from funds.

Smart GBTC investors will sell their shares and get as far away from Barry as possible. If they want BTC, buy it and keep it on Gemini or a bank if they are incapable of securing their own coins.

[Bitcoinreminder.com]

Site is offline for maintainance...

EDIT: Online again...

[Chef Ramsay]

So... when do people think GBTC shares will actually go for sale? For some reason I got the impression it was going to be yesterday/today.

It looks like no one really knows an answer. All we can do at this point is guess and trust people who have some experience in this field. I think it should happen within the next month, but I'm really not familiar with the processes required for such a trade.

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

If you check bitcoinwisdom, you can see that the market doesn't give a shit about this. And for good reason.

I'd give it a week before concluding what the market thinks about this.

Yeah, only now can these guys get into their accounts and decide what they want to do. I suspect some of them, at least, haven't been keeping up on things lately in their year long escapade like most of us have so it'll take some time to drum up a sound decision at this point.

Smart GBTC investors will buy 'real' bitcoin while selling their "GBTC-bitcoin". At the minimum, they would be able to 'capture' loss, while fully replacing the underlying bitcoin.
Wash sale rule will probably not apply because they will be buying bitcoin, but selling a different asset (GBTC).
It is also possible that they will be able to sell GBTC at a higher price due to the interest from funds.

Agreed but it seems like most of these people were attracted towards GBTC for the expressed reason of not having to secure them themselves. Fast forward to now and it's way too easy to get them on your own.

[Alley]

So shareholders have instructions on how to transfer shares to there account...  How long does that take lol.  If its instant we should see some asks on Monday.

[travwill]

So shareholders have instructions on how to transfer shares to there account...  How long does that take lol.  If its instant we should see some asks on Monday.

It should be pretty instantly available, just depends on then the internal/review process at Grayscale to make the available.

It seems a little timed to be at end of Friday, setting up for Monday trades.  I think if you see a little higher volume this weekend and run up on price, it was manipulated this way for internal individuals to snatch up regular Bitcoins at low price before GBTC drives its up further - but then a dump is possible, but I think they would hold a while...  It is harder for a lot of people to be able to buy over weekend as they would have to wait for additional fiat to deposit/clear at exchanges...

[jehst]

So shareholders have instructions on how to transfer shares to there account...  How long does that take lol.  If its instant we should see some asks on Monday.

It should be pretty instantly available, just depends on then the internal/review process at Grayscale to make the available.

It seems a little timed to be at end of Friday, setting up for Monday trades.  I think if you see a little higher volume this weekend and run up on price, it was manipulated this way for internal individuals to snatch up regular Bitcoins at low price before GBTC drives its up further - but then a dump is possible, but I think they would hold a while...  It is harder for a lot of people to be able to buy over weekend as they would have to wait for additional fiat to deposit/clear at exchanges...

Nope. Grayscale doesn't have any control over when the shares are held "in street name." That is handled by the Depository Trust Company (DTC).  That's why this has been taking forever.

[Chef Ramsay]

I think the best advice at this time is just for everyone to dump the hell out of this thing and let the believers pick up the pieces. Or, hang on and buy the shit out of this pricing in a bold testament to the future of how things will look later this summer and so on. Certain folks want to accumulate so do the right thing and let them sneak in your back door and kick you to the curb and wash your hands of this historical relic.

[Cconvert2G36]

I think "clients have instructions to add shares to their brokerage accts" means several days or a business week. Hang on to your butts, and place dump catching bids in the interim.

[bobabouey2]

I think "clients have instructions to add shares to their brokerage accts" means several days or a business week. Hang on to your butts, and place dump catching bids in the interim.

I think it could be quicker.  Based on the prior tweet "UPDATE: @BitcoinTrust's DTC process is now complete" I think it means DTC now has the shares registered on their system, in "Direct Registration" format.  Meaning it is tied to the individual investors. 

Now, the investors just need to instruct DTC to transfer their shares to a broker where it is then held in Street Name (i.e. the broker controls the shares for the benefit of the investor.)  Brokers can then trade the shares.

All of that is done electronically. 

Here is a general description of the DTC service:  http://www.dtcc.com/asset-services/securities-processing/direct-registration-system.aspx

And here are generic instructions to investors who have had their shares transferred to DRS / DTC, probably similar to what Grayscale has provided to its investors:  http://www-us.computershare.com/Content/download.asp?docId=%7BE034FEA2-973D-44FB-900E-0CABA3AB9B72%7D&cc=US&lang=es&bhjs=0&fla=0&theme=cpu

[JorgeStolfi]

It would be indelicate to point out that the DTC does for BIT shares precisely what the bitcoin network is meant to do for bitcoins, only centralized, nominal, with a trusted authroity etc....  So I will refrain from pointing that out. 

[Alley]

Well Monday morning and still no trades...  Not sure what to make of this.  Still moving shares I guess. 

[David Rabahy]

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

I did indeed receive the instruction email late on Friday; it is marked such that I may not copy it here for review.  I have done my best to figure it out and then submitted the transfer form https://evantage.trustetc.com/forms/Trustetc_Forms/accnttransfer.pdf (others will use the form from their broker/custodian); btw, the fax # for Continental is 212-616-7617.  We shall see.

[teek]

Sounds like they can be sold any minute now!

https://twitter.com/GrayscaleInvest/status/591713454400139265

I did indeed receive the instruction email late on Friday; it is marked such that I may not copy it here for review.  I have done my best to figure it out and then submitted the transfer form https://evantage.trustetc.com/forms/Trustetc_Forms/accnttransfer.pdf (others will use the form from their broker/custodian); btw, the fax # for Continental is 212-616-7617.  We shall see.

based on what you read / your understanding of the documents,  what do you expect turn around time to be?

[David Rabahy]

based on what you read / your understanding of the documents,  what do you expect turn around time to be?

They don't indicate timeframes per se but I am guessing it might take 5 business days or even more until I can actually post a sell.  I did not see any obvious ways to take advantage of the techniques to speed things up, e.g. pay for wire transfers, etc.  Then again I am not interested in selling at this time.  I suppose I could sell a small amount just to prove that it works.

Again, these are just some of my Roth IRA funds; I also have non-retirement Bitcoins that I hold in a few different wallets myself; easy enough.  Unfortunately holding Bitcoin in retirement accounts is not easy ... yet.  To do so I am obliged to trust a custodian although I haven't finished investigating the so-called self-directed checking-IRA.

[bobabouey2]

based on what you read / your understanding of the documents,  what do you expect turn around time to be?

They don't indicate timeframes per se but I am guessing it might take 5 business days or even more until I can actually post a sell.  I did not see any obvious ways to take advantage of the techniques to speed things up, e.g. pay for wire transfers, etc.  Then again I am not interested in selling at this time.  I suppose I could sell a small amount just to prove that it works.

Again, these are just some of my Roth IRA funds; I also have non-retirement Bitcoins that I hold in a few different wallets myself; easy enough.  Unfortunately holding Bitcoin in retirement accounts is not easy ... yet.  To do so I am obliged to trust a custodian although I haven't finished investigating the so-called self-directed checking-IRA.

From looking at your form, there is an expedited option that, so a motivated seller could be ready to trade much sooner than 5 days.

Also, I am wondering if your situation is a little more complicated as you are dealing with an IRA.  Someone holding directly and transferring to a broker may be able to do things quicker.

[ensurance982]

Concerning all these delays and uncertainties: If the first trades have gone through at some point, will the process of selling shares be quicker from there on or is it possible that even future sellers may run into these hurdles and have to wait for weeks to get their shares actually sold successfully? I know this ETF isn't perfect and it's quite remarkable things have moved this far, but if these delays persist, it's a really less-than-perfect way to trade BTC.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I know this ETF isn't perfect and it's quite remarkable things have moved this far, but if these delays persist, it's a really less-than-perfect way to trade BTC.

They are patently NOT trading bitcoin.

[Cconvert2G36]

Updated.

Code:

Maxim Group LLC		   	   100  40.00
Puma Capital, LLC		   100	38.00
Canaccord Genuity Inc		   100	37.50
Citadel Securities		   100	36.00
KCG Americas LLC		   100	35.55                   
Wedbush Securities Inc		   100	31.50
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co             100  25.00
Merriman Curhan Ford & Co	   100	20.00