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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761529 times)
saladin89
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January 20, 2014, 10:20:08 PM
 #21541

The problem with modern democracy today is every idiot is allowed to vote. I actually believe that democratic systems of government will be severely restricted or abolished in the west in the future because the average citizen are getting more and more stupid.


This is a large topic in political science which I have studied and my conclusion is that for the system to come to wise decisions there must be a difference in voting power based on the wealth of participants or else you get to many idiots, resembling modern mass democracy where a professor is equal to a bum.


So you studied PolSci, and your conclusion is what this bloody planet has been fighting for equal rights for everyone, by mistaken ideas?
You should be able to distinguish feudalism when you see it, based on your studies mate.

A democracy is by definition the egalitarian system that ALLOWS a bum to have an equal say with a professor on subjects that would interfere with both their lives.
You are trying to tell us that a professor should always have more power than a bum?

Or are you trying to say that a professor in the classroom should have more power than a bum?



I will try to keep this civil, honestly do you know what feudalism means? This kind of thinking that any political system outside the one we have today is fascist or feudalism is really not a nuanced view. The democratic system has changed over time as well as our cultural values. In my view the west is commiting suicide because of democracy not in spite of it. The problem with democratic systems is that everyone has an equal vote while their abilities are unequal. I would rather the professor have more say than the bum because the professor has more knowledge, a more meritocratic system would suit me. One step to a more meritocratic system is to have votes based on wealth and to have that wealth residing in the country, therefore one cares about what happens to the country. Today we don't have democracy it is more about the media funded by the banks manipulating the people to vote for whoever they want. The people will always be manipulated. I myself am drawn to the idea of an enlightened philosoper king ala platos ideas on the polity. The problem here is how do we get rid of a bad ruler? Well if we had proper mechanisms in place we could have a sort of board of directors having oversight. And if the ruler did a bad job than someone else would take his place.  Bitcoin is in essence an anti-elitist project, but the masses will always have an elite anyways.

You should read moldbug, most of the people here are libertarians or anarchists I imagine, they should have a more realistic view of mans nature and be more like neoreactionaries.

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.no/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html

The advantage of libertarianism, from a practical political perspective, is that it has deep roots in the American value system, and it is hypothetically possible to persuade American voters to return to the values that their ancestors held in the 18th century. If they do this, they will become libertarians, vote for Ron Paul, return us to the gold standard, etc.

The disadvantage of libertarianism is (if I am right) that it is unsound as a principle of political engineering, that its historical roots are largely mythical and fantastic, and that there is no reason to think it is easy to change anyone's value system, let alone resurrect values held by distant ancestors.

The disadvantage of neocameralism is that it is completely alien to American voters, that it has no connection at all to any American value system, that no one has even heard of it at all, that it represents a complete rejection of the sacred American principle of democracy, and that it could be described, not utterly without grain of truth, as "corporate fascism" or some such similar epithet.

The advantage of neocameralism is (if I am right) that, unless you have a very perverse ethical system that glorifies violence, it can be justified logically in a few pages of text without reference to any Humean ought. It can be tested empirically, and arguably it already has been. In other words, neocameralism has no advantage except that it is a value-free proposition which is consistent with reality. Often, historically, this has been sufficient.

One way to illustrate neocameralism is to outline a strategy for restructuring Washcorp as an efficient, shareholder-owned operation. I am aware that I have promised an answer to this question before. However, this post is far too long already. Perhaps next week.
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pinarello
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January 20, 2014, 10:24:56 PM
 #21542

Well, the last 50 pages was a struggle. Does anyone else think that we need:

 - Rock solid idiot-proof multiplatform clients
 - User-friendly account numbers with error detection
 - An API that sites can develop against to safely accept nxt funds as payments
 - Money transfers using send-to-alias
 - Online wallet with security similar to blockchain.info
 
... before we need a perfect (which, so sorry, is not possible) voting system?

BC.NXT just send me a PM.

"Here's a fun game for the community. If you can go 20 pages without discussing VS I will reveal the first character of the password to the genesis block"

Challenge, guys.


Aw man you have the direct line with the man... awesome!

bitcoinrocks
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January 20, 2014, 10:26:03 PM
 #21543

Philosophy should not be confused with software development.  Let the software influence philosophy after it's been written.
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January 20, 2014, 10:27:34 PM
 #21544

As a stakeholder from day 1 I have no real issue on how to vote.
That said I cannot decide who is right or wrong here so it is a vicious cycle!

How to cut the Gordian knot?

utopianfuture
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January 20, 2014, 10:28:47 PM
 #21545

We are derailing from our goal.

If the voting system leads to this kinds of reactions and discussions in the community we have to set it aside till emotions calmed down.

Many of us our angry and with reason but not all founders have left us alone in the cold, we all know which ones where always there to support the community.

This is of importance to take into account and try to understand why people react like utopianfuture and many others

Not all wounds are healed. Give it some more time. We don’t have to punish the good with the bad.

Let us focus on the upcoming client and promotion campaigns for that, we pick the voting back up later when NXT is 10$


Pin


Hey I am pretty calm but at some point I had to make some forceful statements. Some people mistakenly thought we are Google with a secret algorithm that can be kept from the
eyes of the public forever. But it is not the case here as we are in an open source community. Maybe BCNext would try to delay the whole source code as far as he can. But more  
likely is  that the source codes will be out in 3 months or 6 month at the latest. Now let's say Litecoin was born only 6 months apart of Bitcoin, which one do you think would win ?

You can't prevent forks and I would say that's about as sure as any sure thing in this world. Now coming back to my earlier statement about me making a fork, well I won't be able to make one until it is as easy as making a clone in coingen. So you probably won't need to worry about me. But you would need to face that reality. Someone with good technical capability would come around and make a fork that can approach NXT's technical capability;  probably not FrictionlessCoin but someone else will.

Please dont let people see NXT as rich guy club. NXT should be a network for free people, for decentralization, for community involvement and against corrupted centralized governments. That image is everything. That is something an average user could aspire for. It could make NXT to be a sustainable movement as Bitcoin is. Voting issue is about a core feature of NXT as any other important features.

 




 



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smartwart
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January 20, 2014, 10:29:06 PM
 #21546

ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear that there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets-polls" is different category as "best button color-polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:
- min. permitted Account Deposit
- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)
- poll duration (Blocks)
- Voting Fee

Voting Models
- 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }
- 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}
- 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...


Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" ideas!!!
It makes sense to collect all to keep the overview.

The discussion about "selection options"  was already started by Anon136 and CIYAM...

NxT: 13574045486980287597
KLONE
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January 20, 2014, 10:31:29 PM
 #21547

KLONE has the very great honour of announcing our second genesis block inductee  ... PiNX


[ANN] PiNX :: descendant of NXT — So much YUM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=424202.0


Quote
PiNX is the first 100% Proof-of-Stake (PoS) currency designed EXCLUSIVELY for the Raspberry Pi

That's enough to get anyone excited!!

Welcome PiNX

You thoroughly deserve your '::' and your place in the KLONE genesis block is now secure!
gbeirn
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January 20, 2014, 10:32:15 PM
 #21548

As a stakeholder from day 1 I have no real issue on how to vote.
That said I cannot decide who is right or wrong here so it is a vicious cycle!

How to cut the Gordian knot?



Clearly, Gordian scissors.

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
okaynow
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January 20, 2014, 10:32:25 PM
 #21549

I will try to keep this civil, honestly do you know what feudalism means?

mate it can't get more civil than this.

and simple.

Do you understand that the professor of your example has his rights elevated only inside the classroom and only during the classroom sessions??

When your professor is on the streets, he is just another citizen. This is what our society has long fought for.
I can see you disagree with it, but do you understand the flaws of your own example?


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marcoslopez
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January 20, 2014, 10:33:26 PM
 #21550

My friends and trading colleagues asked why I chose to invest in Nxt so I made a video to explain the 3 main reasons I think someone should invest in NXT:

http://prisonorfreedom.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-invest-in-nextcoin-nxt/

Tai Zen


Nice video Tai, thanks for your support¡¡¡
punkrock
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January 20, 2014, 10:35:30 PM
 #21551

My friends and trading colleagues asked why I chose to invest in Nxt so I made a video to explain the 3 main reasons I think someone should invest in NXT:

http://prisonorfreedom.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-invest-in-nextcoin-nxt/

Tai Zen


Nice video Tai, thanks for your support¡¡¡

Yes, I liked every video he and his mate did.
Asian Prepper
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January 20, 2014, 10:38:30 PM
 #21552

My friends and trading colleagues asked why I chose to invest in Nxt so I made a video to explain the 3 main reasons I think someone should invest in NXT:

http://prisonorfreedom.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-invest-in-nextcoin-nxt/

Tai Zen


Nice video Tai, thanks for your support¡¡¡

Yes, I liked every video he and his mate did.

Don't know how to code so I'm just gonna do my part n help clear some of the confusion n BS about NXT when possible...

As of 2014-04-09 I no longer post as "Asian Prepper" and will post under my real name "Tai Zen" to eliminate confusion.

Founder of www.PrisonOrFreedom.com | BTC: 19HHZ1yEimKUYVFM9TkXqd9xwM54jSFrmc | LTC:  LTA99422wieqR1MfWeNxZU5xAsESE9MzW7 | NXT:  17225446755425423638
Jcsarokin
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January 20, 2014, 10:40:10 PM
 #21553

ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear that there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets-polls" is different category as "best button color-polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:
- min. permitted Account Deposit
- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)
- poll duration (Blocks)
- Voting Fee

Voting Models
- 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }
- 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}
- 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...


Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" ideas!!!
It makes sense to collect all to keep the overview.

The discussion about "selection options"  was already started by Anon136 and CIYAM...


What do you think about this idea for decentralized voting using biometric verification (voting @ the bottom): http://juliansarokin.com/100-years-the-future-of-government/
coolmist
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January 20, 2014, 10:45:03 PM
 #21554

As a stakeholder from day 1 I have no real issue on how to vote.
That said I cannot decide who is right or wrong here so it is a vicious cycle!

How to cut the Gordian knot?

Artificial intelligence? I'm working on the code in PHP as we speak.

Code:
$accountNumber = $_POST['account']
$option = $_POST['option']

$similarityModifier = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/similarity.txt");
$accountBalance = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/balance.txt");
$accountAge = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/age.txt");
$nxtAge = something goes here;

<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>
$filename = "$accountNumber" . "/timesvoted.txt";
if (file_exists($filename)) {

    $oldData = file_get_contents($filename);
    $newData = $oldData + 1;
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
    
} else {

    $newData = 1;

    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}
<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>

<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>
$votes = '';
$filename = "$option.txt";
if (file_exists($filename)) {

    $oldData = unserialize(file_get_contents($filename));
    $oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = ( 1 / ( $similarityModifier + 1 ) ) ^ (5/4) * ( $accountAge ) ^ 2 ( $accountBalance ) ^ (1/3)
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
    
} else {
$oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = ( 1 / ( $similarityModifier + 1 ) ) ^ (5/4) * ( $accountAge ) ^ 2 ( $accountBalance ) ^ (1/3)
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}
<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>


echo $votes;


Code:
$optionOne = $_POST['option1']
$optionTwo= $_POST['option1']

$DataOne = unserialize(file_get_contents("$optionOne.txt"));

$VotesOne = array_sum($DataOne['weight']) ;

    
$DataTwo = unserialize(file_get_contents("$optionTwo.txt"));

$VotesTwo = array_sum($DataTwo['weight'])


if($VotesTwo < $VotesOne){
  
   echo "Option One Wins";
  
   $BankA = $DataOne['account'];
  
}
}
  
   else
  
   echo "Option Two Wins";
  
     $BankA = $DataTwo['account'];
}
    

To be continued...
klee
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January 20, 2014, 10:45:56 PM
 #21555

As a stakeholder from day 1 I have no real issue on how to vote.
That said I cannot decide who is right or wrong here so it is a vicious cycle!

How to cut the Gordian knot?

Artificial intelligence? I'm working on the code in PHP as we speak.

Code:
$accountNumber = $_POST['account']
$option = $_POST['option']

$similarityModifier = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/similarity.txt");
$accountBalance = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/balance.txt");
$accountAge = file_get_contents($accountNumber . "/age.txt");
$nxtAge = something goes here;

<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>
$filename = "$accountNumber" . "/timesvoted.txt";
if (file_exists($filename)) {

    $oldData = file_get_contents($filename);
    $newData = $oldData + 1;
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
   
} else {

    $newData = 1;

    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}
<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>

<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>
$votes = '';
$filename = "$option.txt";
if (file_exists($filename)) {

    $oldData = unserialize(file_get_contents($filename));
    $oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = ( 1 / ( $similarityModifier + 1 ) ) ^ (5/4) * ( $accountAge ) ^ 2 ( $accountBalance ) ^ (1/3)
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
   
} else {
$oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = ( 1 / ( $similarityModifier + 1 ) ) ^ (5/4) * ( $accountAge ) ^ 2 ( $accountBalance ) ^ (1/3)
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}
<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>


echo $votes;


Code:
$optionOne = $_POST['option1']
$optionTwo= $_POST['option1']

$DataOne = unserialize(file_get_contents("$optionOne.txt"));

$VotesOne = array_sum($DataOne['weight']) ;

   
$DataTwo = unserialize(file_get_contents("$optionTwo.txt"));

$VotesTwo = array_sum($DataTwo['weight'])


if($VotesTwo < $VotesOne){
   
   echo "Option One Wins";
   
   $BankA = $DataOne['account'];
 
}
}
   
   else
   
   echo "Option Two Wins";
   
     $BankA = $DataTwo['account'];
}
   



NXT is becoming alive!...
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January 20, 2014, 10:46:24 PM
 #21556

I will try to keep this civil, honestly do you know what feudalism means?

mate it can't get more civil than this.

and simple.

Do you understand that the professor of your example has his rights elevated only inside the classroom and only during the classroom sessions??

When your professor is on the streets, he is just another citizen. This is what our society has long fought for.
I can see you disagree with it, but do you understand the flaws of your own example?



That is just an example to show you the problem with democracys is the people who vote on stuff like agrictultural policy don't have a clue on what they are voting on. A system skewed to the more knowledgable would be better. A professor of political science would probably have better knowledge than a bum on what are good policies for the country. Voting based on wealth is what democracy was in previous time in the west where one would have to be a landowner to have voting rights. Anyway this is just to show people on this forum that liberal democracy has many flaws and honestly think it would be better to have a sort of libertarian state where people have freedom of speech, but no political power since people are idiots myself included. I look kind of like an extremist espousing these views, but there are real intellectuals becoming more and more prominent espousing similar views. There is an interesting movement developed around this idea called the dark enlightment you should check it out.
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January 20, 2014, 10:46:33 PM
 #21557

honest question to everyone thinking about how to implement voting procedures.

we are trying to find a way to verify the unique identity of a voter in an anonymous environment.
does that strike as odd to anyone else?

1PeecNu1J8VNKpgR13nasMZWLcMZrwNJfc
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January 20, 2014, 10:46:44 PM
 #21558

I have an idea....

the common enemy....

lets all blame nexern because we have no client Cheesy

Engage.....


Pin

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January 20, 2014, 10:48:21 PM
 #21559

My friends and trading colleagues asked why I chose to invest in Nxt so I made a video to explain the 3 main reasons I think someone should invest in NXT:

http://prisonorfreedom.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-invest-in-nextcoin-nxt/

Tai Zen

Excellent! I love your clear style of presentation.
I post them on my blog, too (linking to PoF) and the video easily gets most hits.

I also like the fact that you honestly warn people about the amount they can safely invest.

Edit: haha, love it that rickyjames gets a mention Cheesy

Member of the Nxt Foundation | Donations: NXT-D6K7-MLY6-98FM-FLL5T
Join Nxt Slack! https://nxtchat.herokuapp.com/
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January 20, 2014, 10:50:12 PM
 #21560

honest question to everyone thinking about how to implement voting procedures.

we are trying to find a way to verify the unique identity of a voter in an anonymous environment.
does that strike as odd to anyone else?

The aim is to be sure it's one voter, one vote. (I hope)
I am not tech savvy enough to ascertain that within a digital environment without giving up identity.

Is there?

Member of the Nxt Foundation | Donations: NXT-D6K7-MLY6-98FM-FLL5T
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