NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[salsacz]

Cross posted from: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=530&p=2612#p2612

My thoughts on how to count votes.

Personally I think the most democratic way is 1 Account = 1 Vote, regardless of your wealth (amount of NXT). Sure someone could create multiple accounts to have more votes but since it costs NXT to send NXT to other accounts, you couldn't do this for long without going broke.


Another way to prevent the creation of dummy voting accounts would be to have a rule that NXT must remain in an account for a certain number of blocks before a vote to be counted as a valid voting account. Or say for example if a vote comes up at block 45,000 for example, only accounts that have a balance as of block 45,000 are counted for voting.

yes, we need to solve the problem with multiaccounts funded from the faucet

[salsacz]

In terms of voting, I appreciate what you're trying to do with a 1 person == 1 vote, but... well... it just won't work.

It really has to be Proof of Stake: 1 NXT == 1 Vote.  Any other system WILL be gamed, and will not represent the collective interest of the NXT community.

Think of it like a stockholder voting in a typical corporation.  You own one share, you get one vote.  Except here, NXT is your stock.

Perhaps a proxy voting system could be implemented to help smaller stakeholders pool their collective votes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_voting.

I bet a bunch of smaller stakeholders banded together would be a formidable block.

But will the voting system consider, if large stakeholder moves his Nxt to more accounts during the voting time? 50 mega from A, then 50 mega from B, then 50 mega from C account

[pandaisftw]

In terms of voting, I appreciate what you're trying to do with a 1 person == 1 vote, but... well... it just won't work.

It really has to be Proof of Stake: 1 NXT == 1 Vote.  Any other system WILL be gamed, and will not represent the collective interest of the NXT community.

Think of it like a stockholder voting in a typical corporation.  You own one share, you get one vote.  Except here, NXT is your stock.

Perhaps a proxy voting system could be implemented to help smaller stakeholders pool their collective votes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_voting.

I bet a bunch of smaller stakeholders banded together would be a formidable block.

But will the voting system consider, if large stakeholder moves his Nxt to more accounts during the voting time? 50 mega from A, then 50 mega from B, then 50 mega from C account

If it is 1 NXT = 1 vote, it doesn't matter what account the NXT is in. If the stakeholder votes with account A, then moves to account B, the votes from account A no longer have the stake to back up his votes.

[salsacz]

NXT is tooo expensive, 38 mil. market cap for premined starter up in pre-beta testing? Are you kidding? Adequate price for approving more people would be 10 times lower. At least 10 times.

And the voting system may be abusable very easy, whales may decide to punish all low-share holders and just vote about it... Or just to vote about stealing someones NXT?

jo, je to vtipně směšně malá částka, ale je třeba mít to podhodnocené, aby mohli nastoupit i ostatní

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ethereum just killed NXT.

Same with all the others.

It's 2013. PoW is no match to PoS. Face it, within PoS there's competition; everything else is just blackberrying its way out of existence.

Also they gave a big advantage to botmasters. Well, someone should fork their project, the core idea is great.

[salsacz]

Number of Accounts with 1-10 Nxt = 7.352
Number of Accounts with 11-100 Nxt = 827
Number of Accounts with 101-1.000 Nxt = 1.236
Number of Accounts with 1.001-10.000 Nxt = 869
Number of Accounts with 10.001-100.000 Nxt = 718
Number of Accounts with 100.001-1.000.000 Nxt = 312
Number of Accounts with more than 1.000.000 Nxt = 122
Number of Accounts with more than 10.000.000 Nxt = 21
Number of Accounts with more than 30.000.000 Nxt = 6

[marcus03]

Could anyone (CFB?) explain the voting feature that is planned in more detail?

I'm asking because I was thinking that with AM it could be build into clients right now. To vote you would simply send a message to a defined address with yes, no or a number if there is a list to choise from. To get the results you would need to sum up the balances of the accounts that voted at the point in time when the voting started.

Is there an additional benefit in the planned voting implementation in the core?

We could have only AM and build everything on top, but it's not very convenient.

Additional benefits will be only after we implement Smart Contracts.

Is there an ETA for the voting system? Would it make sense to create an intermediate, client based voting system to gather some experience for the core implementation?

I was thinking about writing a command lines tool in Python just to create votings, vote and show the results of a vote. No reference implementation, just something intermediate to see how this could work.

[Zahlen]

Nxt is a psychological experiment in group dynamics as well as a cryptoplatform.

I agree, and I hope this experiment will succeed. Remember the "fun" game where we, as a community, had to choose 3 questions to ask BCNext? It wasn't really about getting answers, if you read CfB's announcement carefully, it was really about getting the community to come to an agreement on which 3 questions to ask.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Is there an ETA for the voting system?

It will be launched before April.

[nxtgt]

How about rules that revolve around voting? What is a valid issue/topic for voting? Who can raise a vote? How long must a poll take place to be considered valid? What information will be provided when a poll is opened? Who is responsible for providing this information? If a majority of voters lack technical knowledge and cannot be educated effectively in the polling time frame, is voting an effective method of decision-making? Who is responsible for initiating action once voting ends?

[voldemort628]

noob question: my tx got only 5 confirmations after a week..is this something to be worry about ?

What is the transaction id? Also, are you basing your 5 confirmations on the block explorer or your actual client? I ask this only because I had a transaction stuck at 5 confirmations based on the blockexplorer, however, my client actually showed a much higher count. This stayed like this for a couple of days but now after checking the blockexplorer the count is correct now.

ohhh thanks. all good now. the block explorer was lagging i think lol

[lophie]

I am selling 4 million nxt at 0.000045 each!

check my thread at

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=399205

[Come-from-Beyond]

What is a valid issue/topic for voting?

Anything.

Who can raise a vote?

Anyone.

How long must a poll take place to be considered valid?

The person who created a poll decides.

What information will be provided when a poll is opened?

The person who created a poll decides.

Who is responsible for providing this information?

Anyone or noone.

If a majority of voters lack technical knowledge and cannot be educated effectively in the polling time frame, is voting an effective method of decision-making?

Voting is used for getting the opinion only.

Who is responsible for initiating action once voting ends?

No actions required.

[pandaisftw]

Voting is used for getting the opinion only.

Nice A truly decentralized way of achieving consensus.

[xgc]

Number of Accounts with 1-10 Nxt = 7.352
Number of Accounts with 11-100 Nxt = 827
Number of Accounts with 101-1.000 Nxt = 1.236
Number of Accounts with 1.001-10.000 Nxt = 869
Number of Accounts with 10.001-100.000 Nxt = 718
Number of Accounts with 100.001-1.000.000 Nxt = 312
Number of Accounts with more than 1.000.000 Nxt = 122
Number of Accounts with more than 10.000.000 Nxt = 21
Number of Accounts with more than 30.000.000 Nxt = 6

This just made my day!

[superresistant]

NXT is tooo expensive, 38 mil. market cap for premined starter up in pre-beta testing? Are you kidding? Adequate price for approving more people would be 10 times lower. At least 10 times.

You cannot imagine how low the price is right now. Remember the price of Bitcoin one year ago ? two years ago ?
You can buy NXT 10 times higher and still be making a profit on the long term.
It's up to you. No one force you to invest in anything.
If you're fine working in McDonald and giving your money to the bank for them to make a profit that's your choice.
Or you can invest right now in NXT and save yourself from worries about life and how tomorrow will be and stuff.

 

(I'm kidding dude don't take it bad)

[coolfish]

I am selling 4 million nxt at 0.000045 each!

check my thread at

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=399205

exchange here.. https://www.newaltex.com/

[voldemort628]

I am selling 4 million nxt at 0.000045 each!

check my thread at

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=399205

0.000045 or 0.000075? ) the thread still says 0.000075

[pinarello]

Cross posted from: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=530&p=2612#p2612

My thoughts on how to count votes.

Personally I think the most democratic way is 1 Account = 1 Vote, regardless of your wealth (amount of NXT). Sure someone could create multiple accounts to have more votes but since it costs NXT to send NXT to other accounts, you couldn't do this for long without going broke.

Imagine I have 10,000 NXT. I can't create 10,000 accounts. At most I could create 5,000. Since if I send 1NXT to 5,000 accounts it costs me 5,000 NXT in transaction fees just to do so. If I want those NXT all back in one account (to increase ability to forge) then I can create even less accounts since I will incur a transaction fee to send NXT from those dummy accounts back to my main account.

This can actually work well early on since it may help to distribute NXT even more.

Another way to prevent the creation of dummy voting accounts would be to have a rule that NXT must remain in an account for a certain number of blocks before a vote to be counted as a valid voting account. Or say for example if a vote comes up at block 45,000 for example, only accounts that have a balance as of block 45,000 are counted for voting.

I think the coolest part about the voting is that we can use the voting system to tweak the voting system as time goes on. We could come up with all sorts of complex algorithms in the future once we see what the NXT ecosystem looks like.

Any ideas?

Edit: Or maybe even, 1 Account = 1 Vote but it costs 1NXT per account to vote.

For some people it's not a problem to create 100 000 accounts just for voting. Also I hate the idea 1 person - 1 vote.

I was thinking of doing something like that:
1 Nxt - 1 Vote
100 Nxt - 100 Votes
1000 Nxt - 800 Votes
10 000 Nxt -7000 Votes
100 000 Nxt - 60 000 Votes
1 000 000 Nxt - 500 000 Votes
5 000 000 Nxt - 4 000 000 Votes
10 000 000 Nxt - 6 000 000 Votes

Is this possible:

1 vote = paying x% of owend coins

the fee will be devided between the x poorest accounts.

I have 1NXT fee for voting is 2% I pay 0.02NXT fee

I have 1,000,000 NXT I have to pay 20,000NXT

Pin

[markus1000]

just a reminder please support Nxt on Cryptsy. Register and click "Do you like this idea?"

https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/44434