NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Uniqueorn]

Let's stop worrying about Frictionless, sooner or later his parents will ground him and take away his internet connection. Let's stop wasting energy on him.

[Zahlen]

Copyright is automatic at the time of creation. You just need to be able to prove you made the first copy. That's how it works in creative works.

Timestamping will solve this. We could even put up a bounty for novel ways of doing this if there's a need.

In poor artist land we would just snailmail manuscripts to ourselves.
Easiest way to do it years back.

Or we would go to the tax office to get an official stamp from them with a date on it.

Ah, the days of yesterday... *cue melancholic music*

So since we're the Nxt generation, we gotta figure out decentralized, trustless ways of doing this. (Or are solutions already available for digital data?)

EDIT: Crude and flawed way: AM with SHA256 hash of the work. AM automatically has a timestamp. But will get cleared during block shrinking. Also doesn't scale well when the work gets updated to newer versions.

EDIT 2: Better way: Alias with hash of the work.

[SZZT]

My interpretation is that any NXT holder is damaged by anybody that steals NXT property. So theoretically, anybody owning NXT at the time of infringement would have standing to sue. Is that wrong?
James

And when a stakeholder is actually doing those things? Copying, cloning etc? isn't that the case with all those clones?

[NxtChg]

So since we're the Nxt generation, we gotta figure out decentralized, trustless ways of doing this. (Or are solutions already available for digital data?)

Sign it, put in AM, done

[Come-from-Beyond]

Why not implement Electrum's word based seed? If all clients have the same implementation, the seed could be used on all clients.

The advantage to Electrum implementation is that it's easy to type and memorize, and 12  words give you 128-bit entropy.

Has anyone reviewed security of Electrum's implementation?

[opticalcarrier]

Why dont you just start with delegating 2 people per conference instead of 5?

this is smart.  Since we have so many people lined up for Dallas, I volunteer to wait later this year and go to Las Vegas.

2 people is barely enough unless you don't feel like sleeping for those 2 days. 3 would be much better.

OK lets let rickyjames lead a team of 3 including himself, and I'll lead a team of 3 in vegas?  That sound good?  It seems we need a few more volunteers to fill 3 slots per event...

[jl777]

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree?
Seems like it could be a slippery slope....

OK, how about a license that prohibits just FC from doing anything with our stuff

You will hurt NXT more by fighting with people like FC.

And by breaking open-source spirit you will turn away many potential developers.

Don't make us look like dicks.

OK, message received and understood.
No change in licensing
status quo it is

[salsacz]

Along those lines  **** ANY **** conference you can fund getting Nifty there, I highly recommend it.  I showed him the ropes, I brought him into every meeting I had... he's ready to kill it moving forward.

True. A lot of people here have just silly speech, but no action. We need to stop talkin and get movin

Btw many people are willing to pay for conferences themselves too, but let's also invite skilled people who cannot afford it

[martismartis]

How to understand block No. in blockchain explorer:

Node » | Next Block: 4073882532069587653 | Blocks: 54291 | Transactions: 109551 | Aliases: 55402 | Accounts: 19977 | Orders: 0 | Assets: 0 | v.: 0.5.11 | BC » Sync: 300s

while in 0.5.11 NRS last bloc is 54192?

[Damelon]

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree?
Seems like it could be a slippery slope....

OK, how about a license that prohibits just FC from doing anything with our stuff

You will hurt NXT more by fighting with people like FC.

And by breaking open-source spirit you will turn away many potential developers.

Don't make us look like dicks.

OK, message received and understood.
No change in licensing
status quo it is

Hey James,

Not status quo. The idea is valid, but in the proposed form it would just raise Hell in this neck of the woods.
If we can find a smart and different way of protecting our work, that would be great.

EDIT 2: Better way: Alias with hash of the work.

Sounds good to me.

[Damelon]

Along those lines  **** ANY **** conference you can fund getting Nifty there, I highly recommend it.  I showed him the ropes, I brought him into every meeting I had... he's ready to kill it moving forward.

True. A lot of people here have just silly speech, but no action. We need to stop talkin and get movin

Btw many people are willing to pay for conferences themselves too, but let's also invite skilled people who cannot afford it

I'll pay my entry into the Amsterdamn one myself.
Spend all the Nxt we save on that on promo. (Like the 2000 raspi's I want!)

(and the lightshow)

(and the special appearance by Kraftwerk!)

[gs02xzz]

James, how about we explore non-legal recourses first? I've suggested proof of prior art and reputation damage, any other ideas? Maybe steganography for art/video assets?

Maybe we just follow the cryptocurrency style. Open source. Free to use. For everyone!

Usage is fine. Stealing outright is not.

Things like clients should be open source and free to use for everyone. Things like web services shouldn't be open source.. Look at all the BTC and LTC clones. Everyone uses the same client/wallet. And it wasn't created by satoshi. Did it harm BTC or LTC? No..

+1. No matter what we we do, we should avoid to make Nxt a corporation. There is no Nxt entity, only open source individual's works and contribution. Between corporation and theft, I rather choose theft.

[Voluntold]

I am not a lawyer. Need a lawyer to figure out how to make it so we can prevent klones that blatantly ripoff NXT community's hard work.
For graphics, text we write, etc., it should be easy to put copyright and that automatically limits theft.

Something wrong with all these discussions about licences. This is a world of cryptoanarchy.

How about just archiving all work done (code, art, anything) with an independently verifiable timestamp? Then if anyone copies (without innovating on top of it), we don't sue. We just point out our original earlier versions, lower the plagiarist's reputation and maybe win over converts?

This idea sounds WAY better. I would think that the NXT community would be more aware of the fact that the government only "protects" their own power. Copyrighting something doesn't magically protect you from thieves. I don't even know if you could copyright something that isn't owned by someone. Also, it would hurt NXT's image. Part of the big appeal of NXT/other crypto's is the fact that they're decentralized and exist outside government control. I know that I would be FAR LESS interested in NXT if it was more entangled with the current legal system. The whole point of crypto-currencies was to have money beyond government control. If you want 'digital money' that has a lot more legal protections, keep using visa/mastercard.

[jl777]

James, how about we explore non-legal recourses first? I've suggested proof of prior art and reputation damage, any other ideas? Maybe steganography for art/video assets?

Maybe we just follow the cryptocurrency style. Open source. Free to use. For everyone!

Usage is fine. Stealing outright is not.

Things like clients should be open source and free to use for everyone. Things like web services shouldn't be open source.. Look at all the BTC and LTC clones. Everyone uses the same client/wallet. And it wasn't created by satoshi. Did it harm BTC or LTC? No..

+1. No matter what we we do, we should avoid to make Nxt a corporation. There is no Nxt entity, only open source individual's works and contribution. Between corporation and theft, I rather choose theft.

I certainly never advocated a corporation???
Just trying to prevent thieves

Seems like there are clever non-legal solutions. Maybe a non-legal non-binding statement a developer can put into the software? That way the spirit can be preserved without going all legal.

James

[NxtChg]

Not status quo. The idea is valid, but in the proposed form it would just raise Hell in this neck of the woods.
If we can find a smart and different way of protecting our work, that would be great.

Every dictator thinks he shows strength when he puts feeble people in jail.

In reality, you just show everyone that you are afraid of feeble people.

Just stop it.

[cryptolawyer]

Hey James,

Not status quo. The idea is valid, but in the proposed form it would just raise Hell in this neck of the woods.
If we can find a smart and different way of protecting our work, that would be great.

DRM is a current example of a simple smart contract in action. While it clearly has its flaws (and is inapplicable in this instance), a flexible decentralized trustless solution to IP protection would be revolutionary.

[Damelon]

James, how about we explore non-legal recourses first? I've suggested proof of prior art and reputation damage, any other ideas? Maybe steganography for art/video assets?

Maybe we just follow the cryptocurrency style. Open source. Free to use. For everyone!

Usage is fine. Stealing outright is not.

Things like clients should be open source and free to use for everyone. Things like web services shouldn't be open source.. Look at all the BTC and LTC clones. Everyone uses the same client/wallet. And it wasn't created by satoshi. Did it harm BTC or LTC? No..

+1. No matter what we we do, we should avoid to make Nxt a corporation. There is no Nxt entity, only open source individual's works and contribution. Between corporation and theft, I rather choose theft.

I certainly never advocated a corporation???
Just trying to prevent thieves

Seems like there are clever non-legal solutions. Maybe a non-legal non-binding statement a developer can put into the software? That way the spirit can be preserved without going all legal.

James

Also, the idea is to protect the software from mis-use. If someone comes up with a terrific way of using it and improving on it, surely that's all in the game?

One of the biggest drawbacks of copyright at it's most restrictive is that things can't even be improved.

I've seen many people on here who actually welcome people working with their code if it actually makes it better. That's one of the things that is so appealing about this project.



Seeing how most of the people who

[davethetrousers]

Everyone update to 0.5.11 immediately !


Else your server will eventually fork. All my servers running 0.5.10 did.

Didn't assume this update would be this pressing, but it seemingly is.

[cryptolawyer]

James, how about we explore non-legal recourses first? I've suggested proof of prior art and reputation damage, any other ideas? Maybe steganography for art/video assets?

Maybe we just follow the cryptocurrency style. Open source. Free to use. For everyone!

Usage is fine. Stealing outright is not.

Things like clients should be open source and free to use for everyone. Things like web services shouldn't be open source.. Look at all the BTC and LTC clones. Everyone uses the same client/wallet. And it wasn't created by satoshi. Did it harm BTC or LTC? No..

+1. No matter what we we do, we should avoid to make Nxt a corporation. There is no Nxt entity, only open source individual's works and contribution. Between corporation and theft, I rather choose theft.

I certainly never advocated a corporation???
Just trying to prevent thieves

Seems like there are clever non-legal solutions. Maybe a non-legal non-binding statement a developer can put into the software? That way the spirit can be preserved without going all legal.

James

Also, the idea is to protect the software from mis-use. If someone comes up with a terrific way of using it and improving on it, surely that's all in the game?

One of the biggest drawbacks of copyright at it's most restrictive is that things can't even be improved.

I've seen many people on here who actually welcome people working with their code if it actually makes it better. That's one of the things that is so appealing about this project.



Seeing how most of the people who

The concept of open source is at its most fundamental level premised on copyright. It is precisely because the author of open source software is the copyright owner and entitled to enforce his rights that he is entitled to attach an open source license to the software and thereby dictate the terms of its use by others.

[bithic]

Along those lines  **** ANY **** conference you can fund getting Nifty there, I highly recommend it.  I showed him the ropes, I brought him into every meeting I had... he's ready to kill it moving forward.

True. A lot of people here have just silly speech, but no action. We need to stop talkin and get movin

Btw many people are willing to pay for conferences themselves too, but let's also invite skilled people who cannot afford it

+1 for getting Nifty to every conference possible. It would help to establish continuity with existing contacts and use his experience to coordinate the floor team and meetings. Why not make him a paid "official" Nxt rep?