NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[2Kool4Skewl]

***Action Item***

One of our priorities needs to be able to get Nxt into the hands of people without Bitcoin.

You can purchase NXT without Bitcoin via CryptoKopen.eu.

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[opticalcarrier]

Sure thats true but it isn't really relevant. The question is whether nxt will cause the rich to get richer. Not whether everyone will get an equal rate of return on their investment.

lets go back... why is this an issue?  This aint unicef.  LIFE aint unicef.  OK the rich do get richer, perhaps we should instead focus just on how things are and what this REALLY means.  Like the talk about the initial stakeholders making a 4700% ROI immediately after genesis.  So what?  The period was open for OVER SIX WEEKS, that is like ages in comparison to all other altcoin ANN threads before then. (no Im not a genesis block stakeholder either)  If the 'unfairness' of the 6 week period is all you can think of then you are a fool as you are really missing the whole POINT of NXT.  Its not some stupid altcoin to get pumped and dumped like all others; its the basis for a completely new crypto currency infrastructure.  Why are they not clamoring about the unfairness of all the early bitcoin adopters getting such a headstart.

Just dont even bother with trying to reason with unreasonable people.  Problem solved, problem staying solved.

[Anon136]

Sure thats true but it isn't really relevant. The question is whether nxt will cause the rich to get richer. Not whether everyone will get an equal rate of return on their investment.

lets go back... why is this an issue?  This aint unicef.  LIFE aint unicef.  OK the rich do get richer, perhaps we should instead focus just on how things are and what this REALLY means.  Like the talk about the initial stakeholders making a 4700% ROI immediately after genesis.  So what?  The period was open for OVER SIX WEEKS, that is like ages in comparison to all other altcoin ANN threads before then. (no Im not a genesis block stakeholder either)  If the 'unfairness' of the 6 week period is all you can think of then you are a fool as you are really missing the whole POINT of NXT.  Its not some stupid altcoin to get pumped and dumped like all others; its the basis for a completely new crypto currency infrastructure.  Why are they not clamoring about the unfairness of all the early bitcoin adopters getting such a headstart.

Just dont even bother with trying to reason with unreasonable people.  Problem solved, problem staying solved.

Yea I agree with a lot of that but the point wasn't to make value judgments. (i think i technically did and perhaps i shouldn't have) My intention was to examine the question of whether nxt would or would not tend to cause the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor.

also as a side note the net transfer would be very minor i think.

[opticalcarrier]

...
My intention was to examine the question of whether nxt would or would not tend to cause the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor.
...

ok this should be interesting.  let me sleep on it.  But my first take would be that, NXT being a zero sum game (unlike wealth) does cause that.  Though not strictly "unfairly" where the poor get nothing in return for paying the rich

[Come-from-Beyond]

Looking at the logo I just realized that we are... The Currency of Two Escalators

We are going to the :

I'm sorry, but the pic looks like u will miss the moon. U should redraw it for people who pay attention to details and aspergers.

[Come-from-Beyond]

How about... a transparent nxt monolith.
Proportions 1:4:9 as in 2001: A Space Odyssey

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18301977/gvans%20nxt%20monolith1.png

That would be a nice paperweight.

Or cookie cutter.

[Anon136]

...
My intention was to examine the question of whether nxt would or would not tend to cause the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor.
...

ok this should be interesting.  let me sleep on it.  But my first take would be that, NXT being a zero sum game (unlike wealth) does cause that.  Though not strictly "unfairly" where the poor get nothing in return for paying the rich

I think even if this were a legit criticism i think it would be a bit like saying that nausea as a side effect is a legit criticism of some break through life saving medicine. which would be true but a little bit beside the point if you are dying of cancer (like we are right now from the cancer called the state) and this medicine could potentially save you.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ripple is centralized.

No it's not. Their network is decentralized. Sure they have pre-mine, but so do we.

Because Ripple’s exchange is distributed as opposed to centralized, the whole concept of co-location becomes fundamentally different. There is simply no central location near which you would co-locate for a speed advantage. Ripple exists on servers around the world, and anyone can easily spin up their own copy of a Ripple server for free. (The code is open source.)

https://ripple.com/blog/ripples-distributed-exchange-and-the-high-frequency-trading-arms-race/

Emphasized important differences.

[twistelaar]

Hey guys who wants to give me 1 million next? 500k is also fine 

[msin]

...
My intention was to examine the question of whether nxt would or would not tend to cause the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor.
...

ok this should be interesting.  let me sleep on it.  But my first take would be that, NXT being a zero sum game (unlike wealth) does cause that.  Though not strictly "unfairly" where the poor get nothing in return for paying the rich

I think even if this were a legit criticism i think it would be a bit like saying that nausea as a side effect is a legit criticism of some break through life saving medicine. which would be true but a little bit beside the point if you are dying of cancer (like we are right now from the cancer called the state) and this medicine could potentially save you.

Or we could just say that Nxt is moving beyond POS as stated by CFB.

[msin]

Hey guys who wants to give me 1 million next? 500k is also fine 

Show me a cross platform client that includes decentralized exchange, encrypted messaging, decentralized marketplace, alias transfer, reputation system, voting system, full account control and I'll send you 500k!

[2Kool4Skewl]

Or we could just say that Nxt is moving beyond POS as stated by CFB.

Come-from-Beyond can you elaborate?  Are you referring to Proof-of-Node?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Or we could just say that Nxt is moving beyond POS as stated by CFB.

Come-from-Beyond can you elaborate?  Are you referring to Proof-of-Node?

I can't. BCNext said that we need PoS only during bootstrapping phase. That's it.

[2Kool4Skewl]

Or we could just say that Nxt is moving beyond POS as stated by CFB.

Come-from-Beyond can you elaborate?  Are you referring to Proof-of-Node?

I can't. BCNext said that we need PoS only during bootstrapping phase. That's it.

Ok.  Do you know if this means that transaction fees will be eliminated?

edit:
Maybe that is a stupid question.  There will still need to be a need to prioritize transactions included in blocks.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Any lawyer here?

I'd like to get comments on the following:

Nxt forgers don't "print" money, so they can't be sued as money emitters. Only BCNext can be.
Once Nxt users r able to lease forging power they can lease it to registered entities and be protected, coz noone can sue them for being money processors.

Looks legit or not?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ok.  Do you know if this means that transaction fees will be eliminated?

I dunno.

[jl777]

Any lawyer here?

I'd like to get comments on the following:

Nxt forgers don't "print" money, so they can't be sued as money emitters. Only BCNext can be.
Once Nxt users r able to lease forging power they can lease it to registered entities and be protected, coz noone can sue them for being money processors.

Looks legit or not?

Not a lawyer, but using common sense, when someone forges a block, he is simply receiving a fee. Sometimes no fee, sometimes big fee, but always the NXT already existed. There can be no printing of money if it is an earned fee. Anyway, the direction is the wrong way, they are receiving not sending, so not money emitter.

Now even for leasing forging power, unless NXT is categorized as money, I don't see how pooling forging power makes anyone a money processor. Leasing forging power does not involve sending NXT, so even if NXT is classified as money, that does not transmit money. I guess the entity that is forging could be attacked as the one that is transmitting NXT, but if it is just paying a contractual fee to the people who leased the forging, it wouldn't seem to be a money transmitter. After all any amount forged is a earned fee and if the agreement to lease forging power says that the people who loan the forging are owed a prorata share of the forging, the distribution of the forged fees is a distribution of earned fees. It would be like if Amazon had a program where a bunch of people could pool their affiliate income and all agreed to share based on number of clicks sent, instead of actual books sold. Any amounts Amazon sends back to the affiliates would be earned income, subject to taxation as revenue and not money transmission. At least that is my educated guess.

The only thing that could ever be construed as anything close to printing money would be BCNext creating the genesis block. However, the clever thing is that at the time of genesis block, the cost basis was 21 BTC, I don't have exact value of BTC at the moment of genesis block, but I think the total would have been less than $5000

Due to the minimal amount, I would think that it would fall under the De Minimis exemptions in most all jurisdictions, basically if the amount is small the law doesn't care too much. This compares to both emunies and etheriums million dollar plus fund raising. The law most certainly care and will do its best to get a share of that sort of windfall.

This could well be the reason the NXT genesis block was closed, $5000 might be the threshold for some jurisdictions.

James

[Come-from-Beyond]

This could well be the reason the NXT genesis block was closed, $5000 might be the threshold for some jurisdictions.

I bet BCNext doesn't care about jurisdiction.

So, Nxt forgers r more protected than Bitcoin miners. This is good.

[erik__]

Any lawyer here?

I'd like to get comments on the following:

Nxt forgers don't "print" money, so they can't be sued as money emitters. Only BCNext can be.
Once Nxt users r able to lease forging power they can lease it to registered entities and be protected, coz noone can sue them for being money processors.

Looks legit or not?

I'm not a lawyer.

I think the legal matters are really only for those who convert Nxt to fiat and perhaps fiat to Nxt and perhaps for people like BCNext and CFB for causing headaches for the authorities.  Transaction fees earned as Nxt wouldn't seem to be a legal concern. 

But, really everyone is still waiting on clarity from the various government regulators which they probably won't give until they are convinced that they can control virtual currencies somehow.

[jettico]

Block 52920 came with base target of 69.7%. What could that possibly mean?

That 1/0.697 *100% = 143% of wallets were ready to forge??