Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers.

[Spendulus]

You know I have to say it really saddens me that we are living in a time where freedom of speech, can sometimes compromise intelligence. For a long time in history, our right to speak freely (or lack their of) held back the truth and its like we are living in this weird kind of time where now our big mouth and ignorance now often holds it back.

Its not about bringing to light an unforeseen idea or viewpoint and forcing your views on the public, its about making informed choices based on the evidence. Climate deniers fail to bring to light enough evidence to back their claims, yet they cling to it with faith! It boggles my mind as why someone wants to do this, what could their possibly be to gain from misdirecting everyone from what evidence is suggesting in several different environmental research fields.

In my opinion, (and I'm shocked this is my opinion, cause I never thought I'd be against Freedom of Speech) Reddit was 100% right to ban these people. They are what I call "Jerks" and sometimes "Jerks" just need to be told to shut up.  

What claims would you be referring to?

The Claim, that climate change is a hoax, and naturally occurring. Not caused by man. There is simply not enough evidence to support this and an over whelming amount of evidence to support the contrary.
...

Really?




But of course there is a component of the whole of assertions and argument concerning climate change which is in fact a hoax, and of course there is a component of the arguments against which calls the hoax out as a hoax.

As an example, Dr. James Hansen and Al Gore's rigging of the air conditioners so they did not work, prior to the August 1988 Senate hearings on man made climate change, was a hoax.  I'm quite happy to call it out as a hoax.

Do you have a problem with that?  Why would anyone want to prevent me from shouting "Hoax" on that?  I can provide many other examples like that, where lies, mis statements should be pointed out.

And of course climate change occurs naturally, not caused by man.  Night and day.  Winter and summer.  Ice ages and interglacials.   There is a controversy over whether man has a major or minor part in one small area of the totality of "climate change".

I am not seeing from what you have written that you are very knowledgeable on the subject.

No one wants to prevent you from shouting hoax, if you believe in conspiracy theories, that's your problem, but Reddit agrees with me apparently. ....I would agree with Reddit banning your nonsense, cause I am entitled to my opinion.

So are you disputing the facts I presented about Gore and Hansen?  I assume you are since you attempt to place in conspiracy category.

But you are wrong, as that is what happened.  So now if I read your trend correctly you would ban me from stating that.  But those things are true, so you'd be banning stuff that was real.

And that's the problem.

However I will take it one step further and note that your assertion that "deniers believe"...

The Claim, that climate change is a hoax, and naturally occurring. Not caused by man.

...is an outright lie, until and if you produce evidence from the major names and published work by the scientists skeptical of global warming....

In other words, I believe you've fallen for a made up demonization of certain people, which is without basis in fact and does not represent their views.  Therefore, you don't know what you are talking about.  But feel free to quote from Spencer, Lindzen, Watts, as you like, to support your position.

[vessarmce]

This kind of twisty double talk is the problem not the solution.

While the article fabricates out of whole cloth the following straw man...

"The rallying cry of the denialists..."

It ignores the 100x citable media tripe which attributes the latest extreme weather phenomena to AGW.

[Spendulus]

This kind of twisty double talk is the problem not the solution.

While the article fabricates out of whole cloth the following straw man...

"The rallying cry of the denialists..."

It ignores the 100x citable media tripe which attributes the latest extreme weather phenomena to AGW.

If I understand you right, the warmies want their cake and want to eat it too.

[EinsteiniumWisdom]

You know I have to say it really saddens me that we are living in a time where freedom of speech, can sometimes compromise intelligence. For a long time in history, our right to speak freely (or lack their of) held back the truth and its like we are living in this weird kind of time where now our big mouth and ignorance now often holds it back.

Its not about bringing to light an unforeseen idea or viewpoint and forcing your views on the public, its about making informed choices based on the evidence. Climate deniers fail to bring to light enough evidence to back their claims, yet they cling to it with faith! It boggles my mind as why someone wants to do this, what could their possibly be to gain from misdirecting everyone from what evidence is suggesting in several different environmental research fields.

In my opinion, (and I'm shocked this is my opinion, cause I never thought I'd be against Freedom of Speech) Reddit was 100% right to ban these people. They are what I call "Jerks" and sometimes "Jerks" just need to be told to shut up.  

What claims would you be referring to?

The Claim, that climate change is a hoax, and naturally occurring. Not caused by man. There is simply not enough evidence to support this and an over whelming amount of evidence to support the contrary.
...

Really?




But of course there is a component of the whole of assertions and argument concerning climate change which is in fact a hoax, and of course there is a component of the arguments against which calls the hoax out as a hoax.

As an example, Dr. James Hansen and Al Gore's rigging of the air conditioners so they did not work, prior to the August 1988 Senate hearings on man made climate change, was a hoax.  I'm quite happy to call it out as a hoax.

Do you have a problem with that?  Why would anyone want to prevent me from shouting "Hoax" on that?  I can provide many other examples like that, where lies, mis statements should be pointed out.

And of course climate change occurs naturally, not caused by man.  Night and day.  Winter and summer.  Ice ages and interglacials.   There is a controversy over whether man has a major or minor part in one small area of the totality of "climate change".

I am not seeing from what you have written that you are very knowledgeable on the subject.

No one wants to prevent you from shouting hoax, if you believe in conspiracy theories, that's your problem, but Reddit agrees with me apparently. ....I would agree with Reddit banning your nonsense, cause I am entitled to my opinion.

So are you disputing the facts I presented about Gore and Hansen?  I assume you are since you attempt to place in conspiracy category.

But you are wrong, as that is what happened.  So now if I read your trend correctly you would ban me from stating that.  But those things are true, so you'd be banning stuff that was real.

And that's the problem.

However I will take it one step further and note that your assertion that "deniers believe"...

The Claim, that climate change is a hoax, and naturally occurring. Not caused by man.

...is an outright lie, until and if you produce evidence from the major names and published work by the scientists skeptical of global warming....

In other words, I believe you've fallen for a made up demonization of certain people, which is without basis in fact and does not represent their views.  Therefore, you don't know what you are talking about.  But feel free to quote from Spencer, Lindzen, Watts, as you like, to support your position.

Firstly, I did not reference it because I did not see the particular conspiracy documentary you watched and so I do not know the details of it,

Secondly as for your comment "...is an outright lie, until and if you produce evidence from the major names and published work by the scientists skeptical of global warming...."

I know no such scientists skeptical of global warming because I don't watch nonsense and no credible scientists are skeptical of it. I am referring to the deniers on Reddit who were banned, and from what I have seen most deniers are not any kind of credible scientist, and usually quote conspiracy circumstances they witnessed in a documentary they watched on the internet. I chose to trust credible scientists and the extensive research they have done, and papers they have written, written I might add from a variety of different academic fields on the matter,

here is an awesome video posted by Bill Nye which explains it in the simplest of manners even a child could understand. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/3play_1/climate-change-101-with-bill-nye-the-science/?no-ist

Or of course also here in a live NBC debate posted on the Richard Dawkins website, http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2014/2/16/bill-nye-marsha-blackburn-debate-climate-change#

yes, every famous scientist, Richard Dawkins, Bill Nye, Neil Degrasse Tyson,  and countless more you don't of, publish work all the time siting new evidence, and frankly I don't have the time or patience to find and site them all for you but I 100% trust them, because they usually side with everyone else engaged in science all over the world, over one instance with Al gore (even if it turns out to be true)
I mean, one guy lying and going to far does not undo all the other scientific research that has been conducted independently by different human beings all over the world.

In short, what you are suggesting, would require  Climatologists, Meteorologist and Marine Biologists(only to name a few sciences engaged in this in one way or another) all from different fields and all from all different countries around the world (that have nothing to do with each other I might add) to be collaborating in one way or another to distort the evidence they all independently found, and doing this with a common goal of lying to us all. I wish you could understand how silly that sounds to me.

I see you are very well informed and watch a lot of good documentaries, but you are sadly getting your information from the wrong places and I suggest you research the topic further.

Once again I will quote a personal hero of mine Bill Nye: "The information you get from social media is not a substitute for academic discipline at all."

lastly check out this article written by famous Science Writer from The Associated Press & Adjunct Professor at New York University, Seth Borenstein talking about all the things we have less evidence of then climate change, it includes things like:
   * that cigarettes kill
   * the age of the universe
   * that vitamins make you healthy
   * that dioxin in Superfund sites is dangerous

Read it here: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/what-95-certainty-warming-means-scientists

Let be honest here, its not really a debate at all..

Thats all I have to say on the matter, I cant explain my views any clearer than that.

[Wilikon]

"Once again I will quote a personal hero of mine Bill Nye"


Bill Nye "The Science Guy" was on Fox News's "America's News Headquarters" Saturday trying to make the case that despite it being "very difficult to mathematically connect" this year's tornado activity to global warming, "Tornadoes are almost certainly a consequence."

When host Uma Pemmaraju asked a seemingly simple question, "Are other countries seeing the same type of activity, the intensity of these tornadoes picking up in those regions as well," "The Science Guy" first seemed completely stumped, and then gave a rather absurd answer (video follows with transcript and commentary):

BILL NYE: The tornadoes very difficult to mathematically connect to climate change, but the rains, the extra warmth in the atmosphere, the extra water vapor in the atmosphere, that’s, those are facts. That’s the real deal. Now, we, we are patriots. We are from the U.S. I am. And you would like the U.S. to be the leader in addressing this problem. We would like to be out in front in trying to deal with whatever it is that’s holding in all this heat and creating all this extra water vapor in the atmosphere. Tornadoes are almost certainly a consequence.

It is indeed telling that "The Science Guy" didn't once mention the impact of this year's La Niña on tornado activity which most climatologists and meteorologists on both sides of the global warming debate agree is largely the culprit.

On the other hand, what would you expect from a guy with a degree in mechanical engineering?

But the best was still to come when Pemmaraju asked a pretty simple question, and "The Science Guy" looked like he had been asked to prove Riemann's Hypothesis:

UMA PEMMARAJU, HOST AMERICA’S NEWS HEADQUARTERS: Are other countries seeing the same type of activity, the intensity of these tornadoes picking up in those regions as well?

NYE: Other countries?

PEMMARAJU: Other countries with tornadoes?

NYE: Well, there’s not that many other countries that have the configuration of North America to make tornadoes. And the word “hurricane,” you know, is a word coined in the Caribbean, like, so this is a unique, unique area in that regard. We have the Gulf of Mexico. We have this access for cold air from Canada or from the Arctic. And these two things conspire to move the jet stream, and then that helps carry this extra water vapor across this part of the North America. So, it’s a unique place, and you don’t have this kind, you don’t have tornadoes in Norway, for example. It’s just set up different, the weather’s set up differently. Here in the U.S. it’s a serious problem.

Well, not exactly.

Contrary to "The Science Guy's" odd view on this topic, tornadoes have been observed on every continent on this planet with the exception of Antartica. A study of insurance records across the globe finds tornadoes causing significant losses in Europe, India, Japan, South Africa, and Australia.

Although the United States typically has more tornadoes than any other country, as a function of land area, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom both actually have more.

Also contrary to today's conventional wisdom, Bangladesh is the nation with the most tornado-related deaths averaging 179 per year having also experienced the deadliest tornado in history on April 26, 1989, killing approximately 1300. That country has had at least 19 tornadoes that have killed more than 100 people, almost half the total of the rest of the world.

So much for "The Science Guy's" claim "there’s not that many other countries that have the configuration of North America to make tornadoes."

As for his statement "you don’t have tornadoes in Norway," take a gander at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu-HyyXoY44




http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/05/28/bill-nye-science-guy-falsely-claims-not-many-countries-besides-us-hav

[AnonyMint]

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

[Spendulus]

....

However I will take it one step further and note that your assertion that "deniers believe"...

The Claim, that climate change is a hoax, and naturally occurring. Not caused by man.

...is an outright lie, until and if you produce evidence from the major names and published work by the scientists skeptical of global warming....

In other words, I believe you've fallen for a made up demonization of certain people, which is without basis in fact and does not represent their views.  Therefore, you don't know what you are talking about.  But feel free to quote from Spencer, Lindzen, Watts, as you like, to support your position.

....Secondly as for your comment "...is an outright lie, until and if you produce evidence from the major names and published work by the scientists skeptical of global warming...."

I know no such scientists skeptical of global warming because I don't watch nonsense and no credible scientists are skeptical of it. I am referring to the deniers on Reddit who were banned, and from what I have seen most deniers are not any kind of credible scientist...

Here, have a thousand or so of them....

http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html

[Spendulus]

Nye is obviously, like most people, ignorant about meteorology.  Most people are not so ignorant to confuse mechanics of hurricanes and tornados.  Maybe he lives somewhere where there are no hurricanes.

From the excerpt, I'd say embarrasingly uninformed.

Sad.

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

YOU are blaming holy climate change on El something and LA something?

DENIER!



EDITED TO ADD:  I wonder, now that they'd hidden away the embarrasing phrase "global warming" and gone with the fresh new one "climate change"....what even IS a denier of "climate change"?

It must be someone who claims those tornadoes were not caused by Bush, right?

[AnonyMint]

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

YOU are blaming holy climate change on El something and LA something?

DENIER!

And I must be racist too since those are Hispanic terms despite of the fact that I grew up in all black neighborhoods in inner city New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

[TECSHARE]

I don't have the time or patience to find and site them all for you but I 100% trust them, because they usually side with everyone else engaged in science all over the world, over one instance with Al gore (even if it turns out to be true)
I mean, one guy lying and going to far does not undo all the other scientific research that has been conducted independently by different human beings all over the world.

Isn't this defined as faith? I thought you believe in empirical data, not appeal to authority. Additionally if we all just trusted scientists for their word would it not be a simple task for one, or a small handful of famous guys to lie and convince a large proportion of the population? See how your lackadaisical attitude toward the data corrupts your perception while you claim the full authority of scientific empirical backing? You can't do both (unless you don't mind being full of shit).

[Wilikon]

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

YOU are blaming holy climate change on El something and LA something?

DENIER!

And I must be racist too since those are Hispanic terms despite of the fact that I grew up in all black neighborhoods in inner city New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

Climate change is responsible for people's skin color. True story. Her name is Melanin 

[AnonyMint]

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

YOU are blaming holy climate change on El something and LA something?

DENIER!

And I must be racist too since those are Hispanic terms despite of the fact that I grew up in all black neighborhoods in inner city New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

Climate change is responsible for people's skin color. True story. Her name is Melanin  

Oh Melanie!

You've transformed.

The requires government intervention to restore a natural balance.

Luckily freedom triumphs.

[Spendulus]

I suppose these folks forgot about the regularly shifting El Nino and La Nina patterns. I was in high school in Southern California in the early 1980s and I remember the extreme rains due to that shifting pattern.

We are also seeing very cold weather this year in the Philippines and many powerful typhoons over the past three years, especially last year.

I see they are shifting the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change". I suppose their massive fuckup on predicting a warming trend isn't enough to embarrass the shit out of their junk "science".

YOU are blaming holy climate change on El something and LA something?

DENIER!

And I must be racist too since those are Hispanic terms despite of the fact that I grew up in all black neighborhoods in inner city New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

Climate change is responsible for people's skin color. True story. Her name is Melanin  

Oh Melanie!

You've transformed.

The requires government intervention to restore a natural balance.

Ah don't knows what tree stumps you be sitting on but here Melanie be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FPn5noN_qs

[mexxer]

That's little close minded of them, everyone should be allowed to debate in an open world and scientists should be an example

[Wilikon]

That's little close minded of them, everyone should be allowed to debate in an open world and scientists should be an example

hmm. Actually no. For  this Reddit /science people, the deniers are the ones with a closed mind. Since this is a fact then there is no need to let them speak any longer as there is not hope forcing them to come into their "open world"...

[AnonyMint]

Peer review becomes peer suppression:

http://blog.jim.com/global-warming/recap-on-warmism.html

[Spendulus]

That's little close minded of them, everyone should be allowed to debate in an open world and scientists should be an example

hmm. Actually no. For  this Reddit /science people, the deniers are the ones with a closed mind. Since this is a fact then there is no need to let them speak any longer as there is not hope forcing them to come into their "open world"...

Of course, what I have been driving at is the issue that they, those who eagerly seek the power of banning, cannot even formulate what the hypotheses are that the "deniers" are denying the facts of, and cannot seem to even point to specific statements by the "deniers" that support the "denial" of the supposed facts.

I think that's pretty important.  More so than the science issues. 

[AnonyMint]

http://blog.mpettis.com/2014/03/will-emerging-markets-come-back/#comment-22375

Suvy you are too intelligent to have a closed-mind. Please educate yourself on the scientific facts before speaking further on this issue. I live in the third world and the environment is native, which I prefer. You may arrogantly worry your bicycle paths and manicured suburbia, but that gives you no right to tax the world into slavery because of illogical Malthusian fear which has never been correct not even once in the entire recorded history of modern man since Mesopotamia because it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Man can muck up small patches of the earth's surface for a brief moment, but he can't destroy the earth's self-correcting ecosystem. The Carbon Cycle is the life cycle of earth. All this propaganda (they are indoctrinating you with in school and the media) is about instituting a top-down control system for earth. It is indicative of the peaking collectivism (and thus debt) monstrosity.

Please all check your emotions and first read the links and consider it rationally.

[AnonyMint]

I think climate change was only a theory when it was first presented via the media, back in the late 1970's or early 1980's(i think it was around that time).


There are still people who do not think that man ever went into outer space.

There are people who do not believe that man went to the moon, and they think that was all a hollywood con job.

There are people who still think the world is flat and not round.

Some how I consider all those in a different category than people that want to kill off or sit idly by while >90% of the world's population dies off.

But but but they do it for the good of the planet. 93.87% of the world population is overrated according to their calculation anyway...

You lost the argument about science and probabilities, so predictably you shift to fear mongering.

I wish the $150 trillion global debt bubble would hurry up and pop, so you useless individuals will lose your funny money and be relegated to arguing with yourself in the mirror.

I don't have time to re-read this entire thread, but if anyone can pinpoint which post I finally realized that Wilikon and Spendulus were employing satire and actually 'deniers' like me, I'd find that amusing.

Apologies to those two guys.  

[Wilikon]

Promo Video: Hip Hop Caucus Act On Climate Campus Tour 2014


http://youtu.be/6xTHREO-JGM


"Published on Mar 20, 2014

Join us in six states on six college and university campuses!

Check out more tour info at www.hiphopcaucus.org/climate"