bitcoin-trader.biz

[Aahzman]

Actually, on the Results page of the Blog from the main page, it shows you exactly how many Ghash you get per share (currently 10Ghash/share), and the adjustments to daily mining profit earnings every 10-11 days when the network difficulty is adjusted.   The same page shows they are a partner with KNC, so it's safe to assume they are heavily invested in KNC mining equipment.

I can't comment on how recently the mining page was updated, but it currently shows Bitcoin-Trader as operating approximately 10THash of mining equipment.

So, we know why yonce continues to post here.  He wants to scare people from Bitcoin-Trader in the hope of getting them to buy into only the ponzi's that he personally shills for.

What's your angle, Grinder? What "proper business" information is lacking, information that you can't find if you spend a few minutes navigating the site? I'll be sure to pass it along to Michael and John...

[Killerloop]

Also they are contributing sponsors of the Bitcoin Conference 2014. Scroll to the bottom.

It may be a cover up of course

[nrd525]

How to Identify a Ponzi
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100696.0

-High steady rate of return - they vary it a little bit, but there are very few days where Bitcoin Trader actually loses money - unlike the real world.  They rate of return varies a lot on daily basis - but they're just playing with the numbers to make it look like a real investment. The deviation from 1%/day is minimal.

-1% a day. Does this remind anyone of any previous Bitcoin ponzi schemes?  Bitcoin Savings and Trust offered 7%/week.

-Bitcoin mining side project.  Very similar to Bitcoin Savings and Trust which had a GPUMax (rent a GPU for mining) side project.

-The arbitrage opportunities aren't that big (international wire transfers take time). They don't appear every day.  And the more volume you throw at them the smaller they are due to slippage.

[firm4x]

I have registered with bitcoin-trader.biz today. To me the website looks very professional. I look at their results and find them very high. I don´t know much about Bitcoin mining so I cannot have an opinion about that. Regarding the arbitrage trading I lack information about what kind of arbitrage trading they are actually doing. Today the professional arbitrage market is very, very competitive as the stock markets are totally dominated by supercomputers doing millions of transactions every day. The margins are very low and there is actually hardly no arbitrage trading to be found manually.

We are doing arbitrage trading and scalping with our FX Robots with very good results. This works because the FX spot markets still is dominated by manual traders at the major banks and financial institutions. The development of reliable robots for the FX market started later than the equivalent for the stock markets. The task to trade FX automatically is far more difficult than trading stocks as well. Remember that about 85-90 % of all private "day traders" on the FX spot market lose their money within a month. FXCM (NYSE), one of the leading global FX Brokers, had 72% losing accounts in their client portfolio last year. FXCM earns a lot of money still as the Broker wins even if the trader loses his money.

We are starting a new unique concept right now where we have founded 3 Unit Trust Funds for trading FX with Bitcoin as the denominated currency on the trading platform. We do not know of nanybody that have done that before! The reason is mainly that Bitcoin is not accepted by the major banks and liquidity providers in the Intrabank system that controls the FX markets. Bitcoin has been accepted to use in the actual trading as one of the currencies in a currency pair. But to allow Bitcoin at the base on the platform has not been done as far as I know, except for Bit4X.com that have such a fund. As far as I know they do not have a proprietary FX Robot.

Check us out at www.lavidasymphony.com and firmarbitrage.com. Our robot has been developed by FXAutorobotics in Tallinn, Estonia by programmers in Estonia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden and Ukraine, since 2006. We acquired FXAutorobotics in late 2013 (www.fxautorobotics.com)

I can send anyone more information about the FIRM4X if required

Lars Felth
CEO& Chairman
The FIRM4X Ltd
London, UK

[johny08]

I have registered with bitcoin-trader.biz today. To me the website looks very professional. I look at their results and find them very high. I don´t know much about Bitcoin mining so I cannot have an opinion about that. Regarding the arbitrage trading I lack information about what kind of arbitrage trading they are actually doing. Today the professional arbitrage market is very, very competitive as the stock markets are totally dominated by supercomputers doing millions of transactions every day. The margins are very low and there is actually hardly no arbitrage trading to be found manually.

We are doing arbitrage trading and scalping with our FX Robots with very good results. This works because the FX spot markets still is dominated by manual traders at the major banks and financial institutions. The development of reliable robots for the FX market started later than the equivalent for the stock markets. The task to trade FX automatically is far more difficult than trading stocks as well. Remember that about 85-90 % of all private "day traders" on the FX spot market lose their money within a month. FXCM (NYSE), one of the leading global FX Brokers, had 72% losing accounts in their client portfolio last year. FXCM earns a lot of money still as the Broker wins even if the trader loses his money.

We are starting a new unique concept right now where we have founded 3 Unit Trust Funds for trading FX with Bitcoin as the denominated currency on the trading platform. We do not know of nanybody that have done that before! The reason is mainly that Bitcoin is not accepted by the major banks and liquidity providers in the Intrabank system that controls the FX markets. Bitcoin has been accepted to use in the actual trading as one of the currencies in a currency pair. But to allow Bitcoin at the base on the platform has not been done as far as I know, except for Bit4X.com that have such a fund. As far as I know they do not have a proprietary FX Robot.

Check us out at www.lavidasymphony.com and firmarbitrage.com. Our robot has been developed by FXAutorobotics in Tallinn, Estonia by programmers in Estonia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden and Ukraine, since 2006. We acquired FXAutorobotics in late 2013 (www.fxautorobotics.com)

I can send anyone more information about the FIRM4X if required

Lars Felth
CEO& Chairman
The FIRM4X Ltd
London, UK

@ yonce
where are you? another ponzi bussiness, why are you not reacting?

[vipgelsi]

If someone meets anyone from bitcoin trader .biz at the Amsterdam confrence please post pics / details.

[Grinder]

AFAIK they aren't selling you GHS like Cex.io does. they are selling you a contract for a year.
The information you are looking for is here: https://bitcoin-trader.biz/mining.php --> ~10 TH for 1700 shares so each 100$ share rents ~5,88235 GHs for a year.

Sorry I didn't see that. They've opted for my alternative #2, having numbers that don't make sense. They do explain how they are likely to solve the problem you've pointed out of negative return though. They'll just let each share magically represent a higher hashing rate, like they did in April. That way it will keep looking very profitable.

[proximator]

Are they based in London or somewhere else ?

[sunny1]

AFAIK they aren't selling you GHS like Cex.io does. they are selling you a contract for a year.
The information you are looking for is here: https://bitcoin-trader.biz/mining.php --> ~10 TH for 1700 shares so each 100$ share rents ~5,88235 GHs for a year.

Sorry I didn't see that. They've opted for my alternative #2, having numbers that don't make sense. They do explain how they are likely to solve the problem you've pointed out of negative return though. They'll just let each share magically represent a higher hashing rate, like they did in April. That way it will keep looking very profitable.

The reason why the hashrate is gradually increased was explained via newsletter --> cheaper mining equipment.

Anyway, they've just revealed that all client assets will soon be independently audited -- just like Kraken or Coinbase. What else can we ask for

[Ron~Popeil]

AFAIK they aren't selling you GHS like Cex.io does. they are selling you a contract for a year.
The information you are looking for is here: https://bitcoin-trader.biz/mining.php --> ~10 TH for 1700 shares so each 100$ share rents ~5,88235 GHs for a year.

Sorry I didn't see that. They've opted for my alternative #2, having numbers that don't make sense. They do explain how they are likely to solve the problem you've pointed out of negative return though. They'll just let each share magically represent a higher hashing rate, like they did in April. That way it will keep looking very profitable.

The reason why the hashrate is gradually increased was explained via newsletter --> cheaper mining equipment.

Anyway, they've just revealed that all client assets will soon be independently audited -- just like Kraken or Coinbase. What else can we ask for

If that happens I will probably buy another 5 shares. I have 2 now and am getting steady payouts. I am reluctant to invest more until my current ones mature.

[proximator]

If there is an external audit, I can invest more
Where is the source of this info please ?

[sunny1]

If there is an external audit, I can invest more
Where is the source of this info please ?

Brandenburg posted it to the official fb group earlier today.

[Grinder]

The reason why the hashrate is gradually increased was explained via newsletter --> cheaper mining equipment.

Except it's not only cheaper, it's free to everyone who bought shares earlier. There is no way for that to make economic sense.

[Killerloop]

Are they based in London or somewhere else ?

John and other co-founders are based in London. AFAIK one of them will attend the upcoming Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam

[vipgelsi]

Picture please for anyone who plans to go.

[msarro]

Just requested my first withdrawal, we'll see how it goes!
Once I receive it, and especially when they put in the audit system, I'll probably be sinking a grand in (I'm selling off my mining rig because scrypt ASICs are making it a losing game now and since that has paid for itself already, taking the profits and putting them in bitcoin-trader). Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

[yonce]

For those playing this game, always withdraw your earnings - don't re-invest. So many people go down the wrong path re-investing 100% of their earnings, and then poof the site is gone. Even with these low returns - there's a limit to this ponzi.

[Killerloop]

For those playing this game, always withdraw your earnings - don't re-invest. So many people go down the wrong path re-investing 100% of their earnings, and then poof the site is gone. Even with these low returns - there's a limit to this ponzi.

Earnings are around ~1% day weekend and holiday excluded. You need roughly 110 days to get your money back.

So it is wiser to compound and wait for the full refund at 120 days then decide to play another round or not.

[yonce]

For those playing this game, always withdraw your earnings - don't re-invest. So many people go down the wrong path re-investing 100% of their earnings, and then poof the site is gone. Even with these low returns - there's a limit to this ponzi.

Earnings are around ~1% day weekend and holiday excluded. You need roughly 110 days to get your money back.

So it is wiser to compound and wait for the full refund at 120 days then decide to play another round or not.

That's a good way to risk all your money and end up with ZERO. Never compound, never ever. Ponzi games always die.

[Killerloop]

That's a good way to risk all your money and end up with ZERO. Never compound, never ever. Ponzi games always die.

They don't look like a Ponzi.