[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[reader31]

Was away from the thread the past few days....just caught up to all the developments. I'm very impressed with the way the community is working through this episode. Even though all the parties involved clearly understood the risks associated with their actions, it's still great to this community(hardly a month old) come together to address it.

I for one haven't moved my xcps out of my original burn address as I was waiting for a stable GUI client. With the new GUI clients, think this is a good time/cause for getting some my xcps rolled out of their birth address. Will be getting on this weekend. I would suspect a number of the initial XCP burners would be in the same boat. Withe new GUI clients we should see an increase in participation of the fundraising activities. Keep up the great work guys.

[fudge]

i'm unable to run counterpartyd

error while starting counterpartyd server
v0.6
bitcoin 0.8.6

  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\util.py", line 280, in versions_ch
eck
lib.exceptions.DatabaseVersionError: Unable to check client, database versions. How’s yo
ur Internet access?

internet access is ok

i got this a couple days ago, i wiped everything and rebuild

my counterpartyd.7.db is zero size so rebuild is not started

counterpartyd even do not try to access bitcoind!

[nakaone]

you guys all need to chill out.

exchanges charge fees and those fees should cover insurance and security costs such as this.  again assuming there is some level of sophistication in the operations.

the exchange can easily make up the amounts in fees over the course of a few weeks, maybe a couple months at most.

or the exchange can release some bond or stock on XCP and give holders a portion of their future profits to raise the 80 btc and 6100 xcp to cover their obligation.

cannot agree more with the entire post

I think I'll donate some xcp for the poloniex fund, even though I am not directly affected. But Poloniex took the risk as an entrepreneur to take xcp and earned and hopefully will earn money with xcp. The customers also knew that it is alpha software and that something like that could happen.

Do not get me wrong I am totally fine with fundraising, but I do not think it is our obligation to bail-out poloniex. Especially the 80 btc which were withdrawn without a second security check are hard for me to understand. I think Busoni could offer a solution like the one suggested by prophetx for the customers.

Anyway I'll donate 10 XCP for your fund this afternoon, not because it is our obligation to bail you out, but because you took the risk and seem to be behind the project.

[halfcab123]

I was not directly affected and am donating

[danonthehill]

Is it the policy of the Counterparty devs, to make a centralized decision on reversing transactions?  

They did not reversed transactions. They fixed the protocol. All illegal transactions (what used the security hole) just disappeared from the chain. And of course it was with community backup (like any other change in any other crypto)

Of really!  

By analogy:  I just found out that the Bank of England had a problem with the lock on their vault, which allowed people to gain access to the funds inside.  But it is OK, they have repaired the faulty lock and invalidated all transactions that the thief carried out with the stolen bills, so the bills are now back in the bank vault.  They are very relieved.  Unfortunately, the people that purchased the GBP with USD have lost their USD because only one half of the transaction was invalidated.  The Bank referred the people who have lost their money to the terms and conditions buried on the website of their minting division, which clearly state the Banks locks are still in the Alpha Stage.

  

[metraX]

Do not get me wrong I am totally fine with fundraising, but I do not think it is our obligation to bail-out poloniex. Especially the 80 btc which were withdrawn without a second security check are hard for me to understand. I think Busoni could offer a solution like the one suggested by prophetx for the customers.

counterpartyd.exe lied and said there was deposited 35.000 XCP, what more was he supposed to do?  if protocol is broke how could he have known ?  how is it Busoni's fault at all?

Anyway I'll donate 10 XCP for your fund this afternoon, not because it is our obligation to bail you out, but because you took the risk and seem to be behind the project.

Yes the people who lost money all wanted to BUY XCP meaning join the project,

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back?  Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

[trilli0n]

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back?  Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer burn period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

[qtgwith]

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back?  Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer burn period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

Funny!

[cityglut]

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back?  Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer test period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

It isn't a matter of being unwilling. Although we are more familiar with the protocol, among only the three of us, we simply lack the man-power to do everything at once. It would not be possible to maintain the speed at which we are moving and also do a thorough bug check.

Moreover, it is not only the *amount* of time spent looking at the code, but the number of people who are looking at it. Even if one of us had the time to devote himself exclusively to reviewing the protocol, this wouldn't make extra eyes unnecessary.

[trilli0n]

It isn't a matter of being unwilling. Although we are more familiar with the protocol, among only the three of us, we simply lack the man-power to do everything at once. It would not be possible to maintain the speed at which we are moving and also do a thorough bug check.

Moreover, it is not only the *amount* of time spent looking at the code, but the number of people who are looking at it. Even if one of us had the time to devote himself exclusively to reviewing the protocol, this wouldn't make extra eyes unnecessary.

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

[cityglut]

It isn't a matter of being unwilling. Although we are more familiar with the protocol, among only the three of us, we simply lack the man-power to do everything at once. It would not be possible to maintain the speed at which we are moving and also do a thorough bug check.

Moreover, it is not only the *amount* of time spent looking at the code, but the number of people who are looking at it. Even if one of us had the time to devote himself exclusively to reviewing the protocol, this wouldn't make extra eyes unnecessary.

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

You are putting words in my mouth. It is not a second priority. As I said, it is not only the amount time spent looking at the protocol, but rather the number of people who look at it, as well, that matters.

We can and have looked at it, but more eyes is always better.

If it were a "second priority" we wouldn't be looking to pay people out of our own pockets to help us looks for security holes.

EDIT: I misspoke in my earlier post: it is not that we can't do a "thorough bug check". We have done thorough bug-checks and will continue to do so. However, security is its own job that needs to be attended to constantly and by as many people as possible.

[520Bit]

You are putting words in my mouth. It is not a second priority. As I said, it is not only the amount time spent looking at the protocol, but rather the number of people who look at it, as well, that matters.

We can and have looked at it, but more eyes is always better.

If it were a "second priority" we wouldn't be looking to pay people out of our own pockets to help us looks for security holes.

EDIT: I misspoke in my earlier post: it is not that we can't do a "thorough bug check". We have done thorough bug-checks and will continue to do so. However, security is its own job that needs to be attended to constantly and by as many people as possible.

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

[flayway]

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins  
How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

[TheMightyX]

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back?  Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer burn period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

It's true a bail-out will not make people stop talking about it.
I don't think this is the right course of action.

I'm not sure how one account was allowed to withdraw 80 BTC in one lump sum. Any withdrawal over 10 btc should need to be reviewed by an admin. If you look at any of the large BTC exchanges this is how they operate. So yes, its unfortunate that Poloniex was duped, but not to have any security measures in place to protect ANY of the currencies on the exchange was foolhardy.

Having a third party audit your code is standard practice.
After looking at something day in and day out for months your brain becomes accustomed to it and may not notice what other new eyes will see right away.
This is common sense. Not just in the programming world but the entire technical and development world. This project does not seem rushed to me.

edit: to reiterate; the developers are under no timeline or schedule. They owe nothing to you or I and release only when they feel something is complete.
They are certainly not releasing things half-asses because their boss is breathing down their necks. They have no incentive to release things in a rush.

[qtgwith]

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins 
How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

I have donated some BTC today. All member in Counterparty community should act now. Donate! Donate!

[TheMightyX]

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins  
How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

This may be because many feel this isn't the right course of action.
Just like many feel the auto or bank bailouts weren't the right course of action for the American economy.
I think this has less to do with people being stingy and more to do with not finding a solution that appeals to everyone.
Yes the XCP protocol had a bug, but the problem should have been confined to Poloniex servers and not allowed to leave the site.

I am in favor of increased trading fees.
Assuming a 100 BTC volume and a 2.5% fee that is 32.8 days until he can pay everyone back their BTC.
Keep in mind that is NOT including all the fees collected for other coins.
We can assume that they will make the BTC in half the time using fees collected from other currencies.
Poloniex is running a business, not a charity.
If a bank allowed its clients money to be stolen, would you then donate to that bank?
Obviously this is not such a black and white situation. But the example does go to show that Poloniex is still somewhat to blame.

In other news, I have just finished implementing a security feature that immediately freezes any currency with a discrepancy in the wallet balance vs. exchange balance. This would have prevented the dump from ever happening.

Asking the community to cover 100% of the losses with no responsibility on Poloniex part is unacceptable.

[flayway]

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins  
How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

This may be because many feel this isn't the right course of action.
Just like many feel the auto or bank bailouts weren't the right course of action for the American economy.
I think this has less to do with people being stingy and more to do with not finding a solution that appeals to everyone.
Yes the XCP protocol had a bug, but the problem should have been confined to Poloniex servers and not allowed to leave the site.

I am in favor of increased trading fees.
Assuming a 100 BTC volume and a 2.5% fee that is 32.8 days until he can pay everyone back their BTC.
Keep in mind that is NOT including all the fees collected for other coins.
We can assume that they will make the BTC in half the time using fees collected from other currencies.
Poloniex is running a business, not a charity.
If a bank allowed its clients money to be stolen, would you then donate to that bank?
Obviously this is not such a black and white situation. But the example does go to show that Poloniex is still somewhat to blame.

Asking the community to cover 100% of the losses with no responsibility on Poloniex part is unacceptable.

Yes i know and thats why i have donate to security bounty what we need in future but from that can take part to this also.. But maybe if we can collect this xcp back and busoni will handle btc's back with fees or someway..  And anyway anyone not have ask to cover 100%, we can try cover even little, other way we make busoni broken.

[jayesbee]

happy to donate some BTC to have this sorted -
I saw that it was approx 0.5% of total value needed from the community - is this correct?
Happily double that


although i did like the idea of a lottery
is that still happening?

[TheMightyX]

happy to donate some BTC to have this sorted -
I saw that it was approx 0.5% of total value needed from the community - is this correct?
Happily double that


although i did like the idea of a lottery
is that still happening?

I am currently in talks to co-develop one.
Speaking with the developers first.
Will have an update on that later today.

[jayesbee]

ok i will wait till i hear an update from you before donating.
but if this isnt going to happen soon, we should find out asap, as in this example, I am currently holding back donation