NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS

[Hueristic]

OK I have to say that I'm not liking the fact all of this is being decided behind the scenes in IRC. this should all be hashed in open forum. Either in this thread or in a dedicated NON-MODERATED thread for later reference.

Now don't take that as an attack. It is meant to clue you guys in that we in this thread are only hearing after all these decisions are made what IS going to happen and then that suddenly changes and no reason is given. I mean specific reasons for all the changes. We all know the broader reasons. I'm sure that you don't notice this as your discussing this continually and have not noticed the rest of us are in a vacuum. Maybe the relevant discussions in IRC channel should be posted here at regular intervals for the community to comment on before the decision is made? If we are to be considered part of a community then we should have a say correct?

#1 Why was POS chosen period??? I see no explanation for that anywhere except "Someone wanted it earlier and we chose it".

#2 Why has POW suddenly returned and it why will be for a "short lived" Yet UNSPECIFIED set of time. Explain why it has to end at all.

If we have our own algo and add POS at the same time there is no need to change the amount of coins from the original set at inception. Which I will add is one of the main points of a coins adoption is it's initial amounts and rate.

I think I have been 100% spot on on all my assessments ( #1 of which when I predicted that coins that would start to cannibalize others) in this thread from day one and have yet to see one argument why changing Algo's to avoid massive dumping from ASIC's is not enough to save this coin. I have no opinion on POS either way except I hate that every time I read it is says "Piece Of Shit" to me.

I have also not seen one argument against my idea of publicly stating that "this coin will morph to avoid ASIC's" is not a viable solution.

It seems to me not one person has argued my points. They have just been ignored or commented that "I don't like that idea" without an argument to support why. reminds me of "I don't like change because it has always been this way" even when it is obvious the present path is to doom.


Damn I'm long winded today. got a good nights sleep for once in the last month.


:Edited to add a little clarity

Let me spell this out very clearly to you. We don't know how the blockchain will react to the changes yet. No changes are official, no PoW period is official, no PoS is official. We are in a purely developmental phase exploring what are possibilities are. That is why there is no official information, because we want to test out the basic framework before decisions are made.  So sit back and relax and wait for the testing period to let us know what is possible and what is safe.  Nobody has ever done this, so there is no guide or anything like that. Go ahead and sit back and criticize me (because I am doing the coding) for not being able to tell you exactly how the chain will react and what the possibilities are. If you want to criticize, then start doing your own testing and helping out with the code.

Let me know what resources you would like and what github account to look for pulls from.

I have not criticized you I have criticized the lack of information being supplied on the decision making process. I am not questioning your skills as I am not aware of what they are. I think the issue is the wording being used.

You and Rofo need to start using Qualifiers in your posts. I was criticized when I was Senior Hardware engineer in the past because of my lack of communicating my decision process but was completely assured my technical skills were beyond reproach. And they were correct. We need to learn that making decisions without the added logic behind those decisions looks to outsiders as dictates even though we put untold hours into the research before making those decisions.

[presstab]

You and Rofo need to start using Qualifiers in your posts. I was criticized when I was Senior Hardware engineer in the past because of my lack of communicating my decision process but was completely assured my technical skills were beyond reproach. And they were correct. We need to learn that making decisions without the added logic behind those decisions looks to outsiders as dictates even though we put untold hours into the research before making those decisions.

You can ask any question you need an answer to and we can try to get you an answer, there is no need to come in with an aggressive hostile attitude, we are all here to make the coin better. Also feel free to jump on IRC to ask questions, #noblecoin.  Or you can go through the last ten pages of the thread and read about the decisions that are being considered.

[Hueristic]

You and Rofo need to start using Qualifiers in your posts. I was criticized when I was Senior Hardware engineer in the past because of my lack of communicating my decision process but was completely assured my technical skills were beyond reproach. And they were correct. We need to learn that making decisions without the added logic behind those decisions looks to outsiders as dictates even though we put untold hours into the research before making those decisions.

You can ask any question you need an answer to and we can try to get you an answer, there is no need to come in with an aggressive hostile attitude, we are all here to make the coin better. Also feel free to jump on IRC to ask questions, #noblecoin.  Or you can go through the last ten pages of the thread and read about the decisions that are being considered.

I have every post in this thread. I am not being hostile. I am pointing out facts as I see them and I have not time to spend 24/7 in a chatroom. that is the reason BBS was designed in the first place. How about you start a thread and post your logfiles and I will catch up that way if you do not wish to post the decision making in this thread. As I have noticed you are deflecting from my point. and have not answered any of my questions either. I've been through critical thinking courses as well so know the methods to distract from valid points and/or criticism. That last sentence was not comprised of an  "aggressive hostile attitude" is is a statement of fact.

[presstab]

You and Rofo need to start using Qualifiers in your posts. I was criticized when I was Senior Hardware engineer in the past because of my lack of communicating my decision process but was completely assured my technical skills were beyond reproach. And they were correct. We need to learn that making decisions without the added logic behind those decisions looks to outsiders as dictates even though we put untold hours into the research before making those decisions.

You can ask any question you need an answer to and we can try to get you an answer, there is no need to come in with an aggressive hostile attitude, we are all here to make the coin better. Also feel free to jump on IRC to ask questions, #noblecoin.  Or you can go through the last ten pages of the thread and read about the decisions that are being considered.

I have every post in this thread. I am not being hostile. I am pointing out facts as I see them and I have not time to spend 24/7 in a chatroom. that is the reason BBS was designed in the first place. How about you start a thread and post your logfiles and I will catch up that way if you do not wish to post the decision making in this thread. As I have noticed you are deflecting from my point. and have not answered any of my questions either. I've been through critical thinking courses as well so know the methods to distract from valid points and/or criticism. That last sentence was not comprised of an  "aggressive hostile attitude" is is a statement of fact.

Like I said there hasn't really been any decision making, so posting a thread about it would essentially be blank. Here is my work https://github.com/presstab/NobleCoin . It seemed like you were being a bit hostile, but maybe I was interpreting your posts wrong, I apologize if so.

[NorrisK]

Biggest problem from not communicating face to face: Misinterpretation of eachother.

[james6546]

I'm actually with Hueristic on this.

We were told that there would be a consultation on what path the coin was to take, and that it would be in the thread. Then we were told it was going to PoS.

Not being negative, just sayin

[presstab]

Biggest problem from not communicating face to face: Misinterpretation of eachother.

Totally agree on this one

[Wolf Rainer]

At least the price it´s very stable, seem like holders are waiting to see where the POS goes.

[Hueristic]

You and Rofo need to start using Qualifiers in your posts. I was criticized when I was Senior Hardware engineer in the past because of my lack of communicating my decision process but was completely assured my technical skills were beyond reproach. And they were correct. We need to learn that making decisions without the added logic behind those decisions looks to outsiders as dictates even though we put untold hours into the research before making those decisions.

You can ask any question you need an answer to and we can try to get you an answer, there is no need to come in with an aggressive hostile attitude, we are all here to make the coin better. Also feel free to jump on IRC to ask questions, #noblecoin.  Or you can go through the last ten pages of the thread and read about the decisions that are being considered.

I have every post in this thread. I am not being hostile. I am pointing out facts as I see them and I have not time to spend 24/7 in a chatroom. that is the reason BBS was designed in the first place. How about you start a thread and post your logfiles and I will catch up that way if you do not wish to post the decision making in this thread. As I have noticed you are deflecting from my point. and have not answered any of my questions either. I've been through critical thinking courses as well so know the methods to distract from valid points and/or criticism. That last sentence was not comprised of an  "aggressive hostile attitude" is is a statement of fact.

Like I said there hasn't really been any decision making, so posting a thread about it would essentially be blank. Here is my work https://github.com/presstab/NobleCoin . It seemed like you were being a bit hostile, but maybe I was interpreting your posts wrong, I apologize if so.

No worries, as NorrisK posted before I got back easy to misinterpret over the net.

Biggest problem from not communicating face to face: Misinterpretation of eachother.

Correct, Often being abrupt and direct even in person can be misconstrued. And I do come across that way in person as well.

I'm actually with Hueristic on this.

We were told that there would be a consultation on what path the coin was to take, and that it would be in the thread. Then we were told it was going to PoS.

Not being negative, just sayin

Thank you James, this may be a first.

As to my questions, I'm sure Rofo will address them.

[Coinler]

Biggest problem from not communicating face to face: Misinterpretation of eachother.

Totally agree on this one

hey Presstab ive contacted the dev. he should contact Rofo soon.

it's me john___ on irc

[Rofo]

We were told that there would be a consultation on what path the coin was to take, and that it would be in the thread. Then we were told it was going to PoS.

Not being negative, just sayin

Thank you James, this may be a first.

As to my questions, I'm sure Rofo will address them.

We also took into account the last months of and dozens of PMs that were anti-ASIC, anti-miner and demanding action as well as IRC logs. You just need to soak in the entire thread again to see that those in defence of ASICs and sellers (mostly myself) were far outweighed by those against. mIRC it was majority positive as well as this thread.

I think I have been 100% spot on on all my assessments ( #1 of which when I predicted that coins that would start to cannibalize others) in this thread from day one and have yet to see one argument why changing Algo's to avoid massive dumping from ASIC's is not enough to save this coin.

Our market cap is $150,000. Our hashrate is 1-2GHs. You don't need ASICs to do this. You need to rent rigs for 1BTC and you could do it daily at approximately a .1BTC loss. That's why the algo is irrelevant. I still don't believe the primary actors were ASICs, as I KNOW a large factor was the PoS multipools. There are hundreds of setups that don't involve a single scrypt ASIC that could do this to us. The GPU/smalltime miners are indirectly responsible in some ways, they've given their power to malicious actors (new wave of multipools) over the classical profit-driven actors (mine & dump for BTC).

Go back to the older BC thread when their slogans were 'once you go black, you don't go back' & 'we are borg, assimilate all shitcoins' and see some of their original targets (NOBL). That was when we started getting forced on 64th profitability for days, when our difficulty started spiking over & over again to try and get us stuck in the 60-80 range (resolved in 15mins by single-target) & when the PoS multipools started becoming 75% of the amount mined.

If we change algo., they just dump another algo. besides scrypt on us..

[Rofo]

OK I have to say that I'm not liking the fact all of this is being decided behind the scenes in IRC. this should all be hashed in open forum. Either in this thread or in a dedicated NON-MODERATED thread for later reference.

We can make another unmoderated thread for this if you choose. I have deleted a few posts in this thread since inception. 1) & 2) the scam pool & exchange spam, 2) the pool that quoted itself over and over and over again in huge red text.

Everything else remains, including that slightly disturbing swimwear picture inferring I'm gay.

[Hueristic]

..We also took into account the last months of and dozens of PMs that were anti-ASIC, anti-miner and demanding action as well as IRC logs. You just need to soak in the entire thread again to see that those in defence of ASICs and sellers (mostly myself) were far outweighed by those against. mIRC it was majority positive as well as this thread.

No argument here, I remember this well.

Our market cap is $150,000. Our hashrate is 1-2GHs. You don't need ASICs to do this. You need to rent rigs for 1BTC and you could do it daily at approximately a .1BTC loss. That's why the algo is irrelevant. I still don't believe the primary actors were ASICs, as I KNOW a large factor was the PoS multipools. There are hundreds of setups that don't involve a single scrypt ASICs that could do this to us. The GPU/smalltime miners are indirectly responsible in some ways for this, they've given their power to malicious actors (new wave of multipools) over the classical profit-driven actors (mine & dump for BTC).

Algo's that are not ASIC cost far more to rent. But yes a determined flush attacker will prevail if there pockets are deep enough even against BTC, but that doesn't mean we should not make it as costly as possible for them to do so.

Go back to the older BC thread when their slogans were 'once you go black, you don't go back' & 'we are borg, assimilate all shitcoins' and see some of their original targets (NOBL). That was when we started getting forced on 64th profitability for days, when our difficulty started spiking over & over again to try and get us stuck in the 60-80 range (resolved in 15mins by single-target) & when the PoS multipools started becoming 75% of the amount mined.

I also remember this quite well and if we had changed at that time who knows what would have been the outcome? What I can tell you is they stayed on us because we were one of the few that didn't change. I also remember we (the community) stood behind you the entire time and took our lumps together.

If we change algo., they just dump another algo. besides scrypt on us..

I disagree, they would have stayed on doge or LTC. They really cared not who they dumped on they just wanted a quick profit to dump and buy BC. We were a profitable coin at that time so we got slammed. That should have been the time that we as a community had this discussion. but there is no going back and this coin will continue as long as you and this community stays strong.

We can make another unmoderated thread for this if you choose. I have deleted a few posts in this thread since inception. 1) & 2) the scam pool & exchange spam, 2) the pool that quoted itself over and over and over again in huge red text.

Correct and I applaud you for that. but most of the users that do not frequent this thread don't have a clue about that. So I recommend this because Of them. I have faith in your fairness and leadership.

I request that you start another thread with what you feel are our choices and why so we may all debate them. Of course It is your coin so I will defer to your best judgment even if I do not agree with it (which right now I only disagree with staying scrypt).

[cdg1941]

[ .... including that slightly disturbing swimwear picture ...

slightly disturbing.....?


i ended up spitting coffee all over my monitor.

[Rofo]

I disagree, they would have stayed on doge or LTC. They really cared not who they dumped on they just wanted a quick profit to dump and buy BC. We were a profitable coin at that time so we got slammed. That should have been the time that we as a community had this discussion. but there is no going back and this coin will continue as long as you and this community stays strong.

I understand here and I originally believed we would be left relatively alone once profitability was not there. I followed the classical thinking that is still prevalent in that if a 51% is not profitable or in the attackers best interest money-wise we would be left alone. However we were at 64th profitability for days (and they loved it/laughed at it). A 51% also occurred when we were at 999 confirmations on Mintpal and 1.5GH (16 hours of a private chain to 51% us). I don't remember the exact maths but there were far, far better targets than us for that attack and such a timeframe is quite risky/likely unprofitable. It's become increasingly clear that this recent round was not profit-driven, rather target-driven., and the pockets of some of these other groups & multipools are very deep.

I had hoped through hard work and staying the course/proving our case we would be a lot higher in market cap and hashrate security at this point. That's why I stayed the course, because I thought we could get there organically after 6 months of infrastructure/trust/work. I was wrong. If you don't take this scene for a ride, it will take you for a ride. We need to protect our blockchain, our security and our value. PoS allows that moreso than PoW and I'm obviously not happy that doesn't make some people happy (not directed just at you Hueristic). I know the criticism of forking, distribution, & the issues facing PoS, I've been quite vocal in what it can mean for a long time. However if we don't do this we're delisted from the majority of exchanges and the current state of our thread would look like a walk in the park in comparison.

There are however a lot of positives that come with a PoS switch, and I hope we include those points & discussions with some of those who positively support PoS also.

Also regarding the PoS, PoW/PoS mixup I apologise. We wanted to go PoS, then understood an initial PoW/PoS fork would run smoother with less chance of abuse. That would make a pure PoS fork in the future easier. Then there is the fact PoS is unproven in comparison, and a PoW/PoS allows for redundancy should a worst-case scenario for all PoS coins eventuate. I've been open about the current situation as it were at that point in time rather than remain silent and then give all the info. out at once, because we are still discussing and testing it. There are no final decisions being made and that's why this thread and feedback is still relevant and important.

[Rofo]

[ .... including that slightly disturbing swimwear picture ...

slightly disturbing.....?


i ended up spitting coffee all over my monitor.

I still laugh at it, but still..

[The One]

I disagree, they would have stayed on doge or LTC. They really cared not who they dumped on they just wanted a quick profit to dump and buy BC. We were a profitable coin at that time so we got slammed. That should have been the time that we as a community had this discussion. but there is no going back and this coin will continue as long as you and this community stays strong.

I understand here and I originally believed we would be left relatively alone once profitability was not there. I followed the classical thinking that is still prevalent in that if a 51% is not profitable or in the attackers best interest money-wise we would be left alone. However we were at 64th profitability for days (and they loved it/laughed at it). A 51% also occurred when we were at 999 confirmations on Mintpal and 1.5GH (16 hours of a private chain to 51% us). I don't remember the exact maths but there were far, far better targets than us for that attack and such a timeframe is quite risky/likely unprofitable. It's become increasingly clear that this recent round was not profit-driven, rather target-driven., and the pockets of some of these other groups & multipools are very deep.

I had hoped through hard work and staying the course/proving our case we would be a lot higher in market cap and hashrate security at this point. That's why I stayed the course, because I thought we could get there organically after 6 months of infrastructure/trust/work. I was wrong. If you don't take this scene for a ride, it will take you for a ride. We need to protect our blockchain, our security and our value. PoS allows that moreso than PoW and I'm obviously not happy that doesn't make some people happy (not directed just at you Hueristic). I know the criticism of forking, distribution, & the issues facing PoS, I've been quite vocal in what it can mean for a long time. However if we don't do this we're delisted from the majority of exchanges and the current state of our thread would look like a walk in the park in comparison.

There are however a lot of positives that come with a PoS switch, and I hope we include those points & discussions with some of those who positively support PoS also.

Also regarding the PoS, PoW/PoS mixup I apologise. We wanted to go PoS, then understood an initial PoW/PoS fork would run smoother with less chance of abuse. That would make a pure PoS fork in the future easier. Then there is the fact PoS is unproven in comparison, and a PoW/PoS allows for redundancy should a worst-case scenario for all PoS coins eventuate. I've been open about the current situation as it were at that point in time rather than remain silent and then give all the info. out at once, because we are still discussing and testing it. There are no final decisions being made and that's why this thread and feedback is still relevant and important.

You've made a case for 'queue mining'.........researched it yet?

[Rofo]

You've made a case for 'queue mining'.........researched it yet?

I have been looking into it and will read the thread more today. The question was asked though what would prevent someone from just having 100s of wallets open?

[Hueristic]

So if I have this straight, the current thinking is fork to POS/POW for a "Yet undetermined" time? Is there any range that is currently being considered? A week, a month, a year?

How many total coins will be POW ATM with this change?

Is staying with Scypt written in stone? If so please explain why.

[Rofo]

So if I have this straight, the current thinking is fork to POS/POW for a "Yet undetermined" time? Is there any range that is currently being considered? A week, a month, a year?

How many total coins will be POW ATM with this change?

Is staying with Scypt written in stone? If so please explain why.

We gave 2-4 weeks with these first 2 discussion/testing and then a 2 week period before the fork. Most would rather have it done sooner than later.

#'s haven't been finalized. I'm leaving this in the hands of those with more PoS experience for balance/security reasons. Keep in mind we're still in the process of actually making sure we can do a clean transition and everything works.

Myself I'd like to see PoW phased out over a month or two and go pure PoS, but again that's up to the guys who I'm certain will prioritize security. We're sticking with scrypt because we're already doing a PoW/PoS fork, the coins added via mining will be reduced, adding an algorithm change on top of that at the same time is another variable, x11/x13 are dominated by FPGAs/botnets and because GPU miners have had 6 months to mine/distribute/buy (more often sell) the coins they wanted.

I'm sure once we confirm the switch has worked on testnet/private fork we will have more than enough time to debate the specifics and answer PoS specific questions related to security & distribution.