HBN Investment Journal - 2% returns every ten days - 90,000+ HBN Porfolio

[tokyoghetto]

Will sending deposits to the same address reset the stake?  Or can I gradually add to one address in the wallet.  How does a stake work?  Do I leave my wallet open all the time?

You can add coins to one address. That is what I am doing. I am doing this for the purpose of this Journal, its a lot easier to manage. The stake works through coin age. Once your coins have aged, the network sees this and allows you to "stake" your coins. A "stake" is basically you telling the network "hey, I hold these many coins and have held these coins for more than ten days". The network then lets you mint/mine a block. The block still contains transactions from the network, but instead of the regular reward that you get from PoW mining, you get a percentage of your stake as a reward.

You can leave your wallet all the time to stake coins quicker and maximize gains. Its best to get a VPS, load up the wallet and just leave it running. One problem with having a wallet open 24/7 is that later on you will have minted so many blocks that it creates what is called "dust".  Dust causes your CPU to runs at 100% all the time as you will continue to stake smaller and smaller amounts more frequently. This is because every time you stake a block, the coins that you used to stake get split up in 2. then split again in 2 the second time around.

One way to avoid this is to move the coins to a separate wallet, then move them back. You will reset the coin-age and eliminate the "dust".  I plan to do this later on if it becomes an issue, because I run my wallet on my own hardware. But seeing how I don't run my wallet 24/7, I should be OK.

[tokyoghetto]

hey @tokyoghetto,

Keep up the good work man  

cheers


Oh and I'll even throw in a question for you.  how do you know when to sell?  what are/should be the basis of the decision to sell? (I guess profit but I'm looking at understanding how to mesure profit the "correct" way)

Thanks

thanks for the kind words.
to answer your question when it comes to cryptos and profit, you should always measure your gains in BTC. If you have more BTC than what you started with, you are doing well. You have netted a healthy return. You can keep the coins and PoS mine more. You can always sell your coins and roll the profits into another trade idea. If you want to sell your coins, sell them to me. Selling 20000 HBN at market on cryptsy, you will lose money. I can give you a solid trade.

I have sold coins at a loss, so that I could buy into another trade idea that generated me a profit in the end. I have sold off coins to pay bills, buy hardware, giveaway to friends. There are many reasons to sell, sometimes profit isn't one of them.

But the simpler answer is this:

You are only as good as your last trade.

Most of us are here because we want that big payout. That retirement money. That "confortable" lifestyle money. To me that would mean that if I can grow my HBN account to a vast amount, and sell it to an institutional investor for a 6 figure check, because every ten days its minting 1 BTC worth of HBN while everyone else is fighting for scraps with 100 terahash ASICS, then I will sell.

Or I may never sell, and just live off the interest, like how the wealthy do it.

[nobodysbusiness]

Another quick question on HBN, since you seem so knowledgeable...

If I actually don't run the wallet much, am I losing out on staking? Could I just run the HBN wallet once per year, for example, and get all the stake blocks for that year over the course of a day or something? There are just so many different PoS coins now that it would be rather hard to keep them all up to date all the time...

[tokyoghetto]

Another quick question on HBN, since you seem so knowledgeable...

If I actually don't run the wallet much, am I losing out on staking? Could I just run the HBN wallet once per year, for example, and get all the stake blocks for that year over the course of a day or something? There are just so many different PoS coins now that it would be rather hard to keep them all up to date all the time...

coin-age is capped. So in order to get maximum returns, its best to run your wallet every 10-15 days. When PoS peaks and can't get any larger in terms of coinage opportunity, is when you should run your wallet to PoS mine. Look at a coins min/max weight. If min is 15 days and max is 30 days, I would open my wallet after the 15th day and let it run. By the 30th day, I should, if PoS minting is working like it should, mine a bunch of PoS blocks.

PoS minting is not worth letting a PC run 24/7 for most people. It's worth it, when you either have 100-200k+ HBN or the PC would run anyway.

Wait for your coins to gather maximum coinage and then run the wallet for a few days. You will generate lots of block in these days. After shut it down and wait to gather max weight again. You won't gather that much PoS as you would running the wallet 24/7, but it's much more effective.

Treat it like a business. The business of money. Develop a schedule and stick to it.

[forzendiablo]

if i have 3k coisn and send 1 coin away. is it the newst coin or oldest one?

[Tranz]

if i have 3k coisn and send 1 coin away. is it the newst coin or oldest one?

V1.3 coin control. You decide!
http://wiki.hobonickels.info/index.php?title=Coin_Control

Or I may never sell, and just live off the interest, like how the wealthy do it

S4C will allow you to send the interest to another wallet address automatically.
V1.4 https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/3400-thinking-about-version-14/

[tokyoghetto]

Thank You Tranz. These are pretty amazing features. As always, very impressed with your hard work.

[tokyoghetto]

some late night humor.



why yes, yes you can.

[unick]

@Tranz I am impress with the degree of inovation you bring to the cryptocurrency community.  It's refreshing from all those copy/pase alt coins! I agree with @tokyoghetto These are nice features. nice work and cool ideas... I need to learn how to use them though 

@tokyoghetto, Thanks for your reply, it makes perfect sense on the why you should sell.  But I still have a question on how you measure the profit in this perticular scenario of PoS.  So I'll jot down a theorical example.

Let's say I bought 1 BTC worth of HNB @ 5 000 satoshis (0,00005000 BTC/each)
***For the sake of this example, we will assume that the market price of HBN/BTC remains @ 5 000 satoshis and dont fluctuate***

I would now own 20 000 HNB.

In 10 days from now, I would stake 20 000 HNB @ 2% so I would now have gained an interest of 400 HBN.

Now, my question is this.

Is that a profit? can I say I am 400 HNB (or 0.02 BTC) "in profit"?

Or do I need to make 20 000 HBN / 1BTC (match my initial investment) and then, every additional HBN/BTC is profit ? what confuses me on how you look at this and calculate your profit is that it's interest.  I would be in profit if I sold my initial purchase at market price since I sold more then I bought but meanwhile I keep it, do you consider it as profit? What's your angle on that?

Hope I made this is clear enough

And to answer your question, I am not looking to sell. I am looking to buy my self, I haven't reach my target yet!  And then, who knows what I'll do, sell or not to sell? that is the question!  Maybe I'll retire, buy a house near a beach and start surfing ... WHO KNOWS!

cheers

[tokyoghetto]

@unick.

Once you realize that 2% gain, you are in profit. If you were to match your initial investment using PoS, you would realize a 100% return on your investment. that would take about a year, which is pretty sweet. Hold for longer than a year, and that initial 2% return will seem like chump change compared to the amount you can gain in a year.

Most government bonds don't pay anything over 2% a year
GICs (I am Canadian) pay about 2% if you lock in for a few years.
Savings account pay less than 2% a year.
Hobonickel pays 2% every ten days.

My money is on Hobonickel.

[unick]

@tokyoghetto Thanks for your replies, it does clarify things for me

I am looking forward in reading your journal

[Meska]

The "stake trouble"
Everyone is holding there coins, so the volume is really low...

My first "minted" block was really funny, I was thinking my HBN was decreasing untill the reward was confirmed...

Thanks for your journal, but yes, completly all right with this idea of this coin is one of the best investment...

[forzendiablo]

time to sell now, coin is at 100% up from yesterday

[tokyoghetto]

The "stake trouble"
Everyone is holding there coins, so the volume is really low...

My first "minted" block was really funny, I was thinking my HBN was decreasing untill the reward was confirmed...

Thanks for your journal, but yes, completly all right with this idea of this coin is one of the best investment...

Its amazing how "under the radar" this coin is. people would rather chase pump and dumps without knowing what their return will be. With Hobonickels we know what the returns can be.

time to sell now, coin is at 100% up from yesterday

Its hard to move a significant amount of coins on Hobonickels. When it comes to stake, then yes we can sell and realize a nice return. But when it comes to the entire position, you can crush the price. We shouldn't concern ourselves with selling our entire position, unless we can sell to another serious investor.

[tokyoghetto]

So I did a huge write up and my firefox crash, so this will be a quick recap.

So basically I increased my entire position to over 50,000 HBN. I want to see how the orderbook on Cryptsy would react and how hard it would be to pull off. I had to battle bots when I was trying to be the best bid, and ate up huge chunks of Hobonickel whenever possible on the offer. I didn't pay anything over 9000 satoshis, but did see the price move close to 10000 satoshis. Most of the movement you see on the chart below was me and a few others gobbling up hobonickel.



Below is a screenshot of my wallet, as of today.



This is considering that at any given time, if you were to buy up the entire book, at most you would only get a hair over 100,000 Hobonickel. So with a bit of patience you can bid and buy up some nice blocks of Hobonickel. Having said that, sometimes you need to get aggressive and just pull the trigger when ever you see big blocks being offered. I missed out on a 15,000 block of Hobonickel at around 6200 satoshis because I switched tabs. I managed to get around 12,000 HBN afterwards, but I definitely payed alot higher than that 15,000 HBN block.

So its been around 10 days since my last large block of PoS blocks, so I am running the wallet now. I have already mined 4.82 HBN as I write this (again!). After a couple of days I will report back on the total amount of Hobonickels mined through PoS mining.



Current value of Hobonickel Investment Portfolio is 3.59849784 BTC @ 6800 satoshis/Hobonickel

[danzilla]

Thanks for the interesting thread.  The only thing to consider is total coin supply, and inflation.  Coins only have the value that people are willing to pay for them.  With a traditional coin like BTC/LTC, the only way to create coins is mining, so you can figure out the coin supply by the network hash rate.  With HBN, the interest you are earning also adds to the coin supply, so there are more coins being added to the supply every day.  With 2% interest every 10 days, that amounts to 100% interest (aka inflation) every year.  That dilutes the value of all the other coins.  Basically, you have to have people willing to buy the coins at the same price, even as the money supply doubles every year.  So you have to have faithful folks chugging money into the system constantly for your investment to maintain its value.

Maybe the fact that everyone is holding now is keeping the price up, but it seems very uncertain/speculative that the price will remain the same, even as the number of coins in circulation keeps rising exponentially.

[Tranz]

Good luck with your investment.

Just so you and others know. I keep a look out for those looking to buy big lots. If I see the price moving up and large bids. I may put a nice large block to feed the whales. If it doesn't get eating in a day or 2 I take it back off.

If anyone is looking to increase their position, I can do the same for you.  I believe I put out a nice block at 6500 and a few at 7000 - 10,000.

I never hit the bid I only put my coins at the ask. If anyone wants them they can come get them. I then almost always put 1/2 that back in to the buy side.  To help the miners.

[Tranz]

Maybe the fact that everyone is holding now is keeping the price up, but it seems very uncertain/speculative that the price will remain the same, even as the number of coins in circulation keeps rising exponentially.

The upper limit on stake is 100% a year. The lower limit is 1% a year. As more people let their coins to stake, the difficulty goes up. As the difficulty goes up, the percentage of stake goes down.  These can be tightened in the future if necessary too.

As it is, the total coins out right now with PoS/PoW is actually lower then if we only had PoW.

[tokyoghetto]

Thanks for the interesting thread.  The only thing to consider is total coin supply, and inflation.  Coins only have the value that people are willing to pay for them.  With a traditional coin like BTC/LTC, the only way to create coins is mining, so you can figure out the coin supply by the network hash rate.  With HBN, the interest you are earning also adds to the coin supply, so there are more coins being added to the supply every day.  With 2% interest every 10 days, that amounts to 100% interest (aka inflation) every year.  That dilutes the value of all the other coins.  Basically, you have to have people willing to buy the coins at the same price, even as the money supply doubles every year.  So you have to have faithful folks chugging money into the system constantly for your investment to maintain its value.

Maybe the fact that everyone is holding now is keeping the price up, but it seems very uncertain/speculative that the price will remain the same, even as the number of coins in circulation keeps rising exponentially.

Excellent Observation. In the case of Hobonickel, yes it does have 100% inflation per year. But it really isn't that many coins. The network only mints 14,400 coins per day. Most of it is through PoW mining, but this will change once PoS mining takes over. Its already evident in the PHS network. That coin is unbelievably hard to PoW mine. At some point, Hobonickel will experience the same fate.

With Hobonickel only producing 14,400 coins per day, that comes out to 5,256,000 coins per year. It will take hobonickel 8 years to have as many coins as Worldcoin has today, 5 years for as many coins as LTC and 6 years for as many coins as FTC. All these coins are priced higher than Hobonickel and don't have the added bonus of paying interest.

As far the amount of money it takes to maintain the current price, please check out this article:

Good buys and coins to avoid. How daily coin maintenance costs should factor into your investment decisions

http://cryptosource.org/good-buys-and-coins-to-avoid-how-daily-coin-maintenance-costs-should-factor-into-your-investment-decisions/#comment-182



If you look at Hobonickel, its listed at 64, only requiring $811.28 to maintain its current price. I believe that hobonickel will maintain its price and as it becomes harder to PoW mine, price will rise. If price ever drop significantly you can bet that people who PoS mine will gobble it all up. People who cannot PoW mine and want to get their hands on coins will have no choice but to buy, pushing the price up.

[danzilla]

Thanks for the responses Tranz and tokyoghetto.  I'll have to look into HBN more, very interesting.