Price of gold manipulation

[Mikcik]

FT. Knox == Mt. Gox

c'mon everybody knows that and has done for some time. The USA is busted ass, there is no gold, it's as obvious as the nose on your face.

Why else do they refuse audits? If they had the gold they would be showing great hordes around the place and charging for the viewings .... it's the oldest trick in the book, a liar sitting in front of an empty vault. C'mon, really? you think Ft. Gox has gold? Whadda ya smoking?

So if they do an audit tomorrow and, say, 95% of the quantity is there, would that mean that they have the gold?

Audit = no proof because they are moving it around between western/globalized vaults.

Proof = when there is simultaneous audit in various large western vaults, both national and corporate, so that it can be ensured that the gold is not being moved around or melted/recasted into new bars with other serial #.

Given sufficient time lag for preparation, you can present ten thousand tons of gold in one vault this month, another 10ktons of gold in another vault in the next month etc etc - and give the appearance that everything is in order.

thats the first good point i saw you make here :-).

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[AlexGR]

Just what I was saying a few pages earlier, that China does the "unthinkable" (per some forum members) in that it bypasses the gold that it has deposited in the US (600 tons) and instead focuses on buying thousands of tons: http://www.silverdoctors.com/chinas-road-to-secret-gold-accumulation-goes-through-the-ny-fed/#more-39727

Instead of playing the repatriation card, they let the west short gold and then buy it cheaply off the market by the thousands of tons.

[thaaanos]

---snip--
The knowledge of the fundamentals regarding gold is not widely circulating. You have to ask yourself again, and again and again until you reach the right answer. "WHY IS GOLD VALUABLE?". Don't settle for "I don't know" or "others seem to value it now and historically" as a self-circulating answer. If you want to really know the truth you may have to insist a bit more on it.

Because Anunnaki designed humans as their gold miner slaves, ooh and by the way NIBIRU is comming to collect.

Did I got that right

[AlexGR]

---snip--
The knowledge of the fundamentals regarding gold is not widely circulating. You have to ask yourself again, and again and again until you reach the right answer. "WHY IS GOLD VALUABLE?". Don't settle for "I don't know" or "others seem to value it now and historically" as a self-circulating answer. If you want to really know the truth you may have to insist a bit more on it.

Because Anunnaki designed humans as their gold miner slaves, ooh and by the way NIBIRU is comming to collect.

Did I got that right

Supposing an answer like the above could spring up, the next logical question would be: Why did Anunnaki want the gold? Why did they considered it valuable to go to all that extent where they would have to engineer an entire species just to mine it with primitive means (instead of applying high-tech and extracting it on their own in a much better fashion)?

It's a "design" issue but not related to any human or ET species.

As scientists zoom to examine the fabric of reality, they will find a universe constructed of information and code - which will inevitably lead them to the conclusion that this is a reality construct, similar to a designed game reality that we create for PC games or other types of simulations.

That reality construct in which we live has variables and constants - many of which have already been "mapped" and are currently in our physics books. Whoever designed / "coded" this reality, used two constants regarding what will be considered value by those immersing in the reality. These two constants were gold and silver. Any human plan to bypass the fundamental "coding" of this reality is simply humans trying to play "god" (ie master coder) and replace pre-existing constants with their own.

This will inevitably lead to problems regarding any replacement scheme (whether it is paper money, copper or nickel coins, electronic money etc). All of these have fundamental flaws and collide with the basic design.

For example paper money is issued as debt to have any form of value, since it's backed by nothing else. So it is given as a loan repayable with paper currency + interest. Thus at any time paper currency is less than the actual loans that are expected to be repaid = endless inflation otherwise the prior debts cannot be repaid without issuing new (and more) paper currency. It's a ponzi scam that needs constant inflation so as not to collapse.

Due to paper price affecting the inflation, copper or nickel coins appreciate more than their face value and are thus forced out of circulation by melters. In other words, the currency loses so much value that the metal of the coin exceeds it (!) in the long run (typically 20-30 years).

Bitcoins have 51% problems, they are not as future proof as gold, etc. It's not a tech that can endure 100-1000-10000 years. It can however effectively troll the bankers imperfect systems and compete with their bullshit money and payment systems. How can they accuse Bitcoin that it's backed by nothing, when they themselves back their own paper by nothing? How can they accuse it of being a ponzi when they are running the biggest ponzi scam (ever) with the knowingly-impossible-to-be-repaid loaned paper money? How can they accuse it of being worthless when its a scarce and rare resource compared to their own endless supply of paper money? Even as a payment service it is faster and cheaper than their bank wires/paypal/visa crap.

On the other hand, the only two real problems of gold and silver are

1. the logistics : You can't carry too much of them with you. Being divisible is not an issue for small denominations (that's why there is silver).

Silver coins = small denominations
Gold coins = large denominations
Gold bars = large money transfers

2. fast transactions in a global / worldwide economy that render long-distance-trade problematic and require gold-silver based equivalents for transfer. For example wiring or paying with a VISA or paypal through a gold-backed currency would solve the issue. The recipient would simply go the bank and cash out his incoming payment directly to gold and silver if he so required.

While we are running a paper money system, gold/silver also have price suppression "problems" but that's not inherent on the metals, rather it's due to the inherent instability of the paper money scam that must be preserved by artificial lowering of gold/silver prices through trading enormous quantities (again on paper) that do not even exist, in order to fix the prices.

[twiifm]

China may be accumulating gold but its not to back their currency.

Their QE program is larger than US and Japan combined.   Their Central Bankers are very Keynesian no way they would back their RMB with gold

[ZooKeeper74]

If my great grandfather had buried a million dollars worth of gold in 1900, and my great grandmother simply buried a million dollars, which treasure would buy more stuff today?

Gold is worth more vs the $ everyday, manipulation or not. No matter what the exchange says.

[ZooKeeper74]

Supposing an answer like the above could spring up, the next logical question would be: Why did Anunnaki want the gold? Why did they considered it valuable to go to all that extent where they would have to engineer an entire species just to mine it with primitive means (instead of applying high-tech and extracting it on their own in a much better fashion)?

It's a "design" issue but not related to any human or ET species.

As scientists zoom to examine the fabric of reality, they will find a universe constructed of information and code - which will inevitably lead them to the conclusion that this is a reality construct, similar to a designed game reality that we create for PC games or other types of simulations.

That reality construct in which we live has variables and constants - many of which have already been "mapped" and are currently in our physics books. Whoever designed / "coded" this reality, used two constants regarding what will be considered value by those immersing in the reality. These two constants were gold and silver. Any human plan to bypass the fundamental "coding" of this reality is simply humans trying to play "god" (ie master coder) and replace pre-existing constants with their own.

This will inevitably lead to problems regarding any replacement scheme (whether it is paper money, copper or nickel coins, electronic money etc). All of these have fundamental flaws and collide with the basic design.

For example paper money is issued as debt to have any form of value, since it's backed by nothing else. So it is given as a loan repayable with paper currency + interest. Thus at any time paper currency is less than the actual loans that are expected to be repaid = endless inflation otherwise the prior debts cannot be repaid without issuing new (and more) paper currency. It's a ponzi scam that needs constant inflation so as not to collapse.

Due to paper price affecting the inflation, copper or nickel coins appreciate more than their face value and are thus forced out of circulation by melters. In other words, the currency loses so much value that the metal of the coin exceeds it (!) in the long run (typically 20-30 years).

Bitcoins have 51% problems, they are not as future proof as gold, etc. It's not a tech that can endure 100-1000-10000 years. It can however effectively troll the bankers imperfect systems and compete with their bullshit money and payment systems. How can they accuse Bitcoin that it's backed by nothing, when they themselves back their own paper by nothing? How can they accuse it of being a ponzi when they are running the biggest ponzi scam (ever) with the knowingly-impossible-to-be-repaid loaned paper money? How can they accuse it of being worthless when its a scarce and rare resource compared to their own endless supply of paper money? Even as a payment service it is faster and cheaper than their bank wires/paypal/visa crap.

On the other hand, the only two real problems of gold and silver are

1. the logistics : You can't carry too much of them with you. Being divisible is not an issue for small denominations (that's why there is silver).

Silver coins = small denominations
Gold coins = large denominations
Gold bars = large money transfers

2. fast transactions in a global / worldwide economy that render long-distance-trade problematic and require gold-silver based equivalents for transfer. For example wiring or paying with a VISA or paypal through a gold-backed currency would solve the issue. The recipient would simply go the bank and cash out his incoming payment directly to gold and silver if he so required.

While we are running a paper money system, gold/silver also have price suppression "problems" but that's not inherent on the metals, rather it's due to the inherent instability of the paper money scam that must be preserved by artificial lowering of gold/silver prices through trading enormous quantities (again on paper) that do not even exist, in order to fix the prices.

I like the way you think.  Scary to realize the elite have always known the value of gold and purposely removed it from the pockets of the citizens and replaced it with the concept of certificates which eventually, as planned, became worth nothing. The dollars only value is that people are generally willing to accept it in trade for goods or services  with the understanding that they too can exchange it for goods. When theres a snag in the line, no one, not even your precious government, is going to trade you gold, or food, or blessings for your worthless fiat paper. Since America makes NOTHING, its up to all the other nations. China will accept the dollar until the nations they spend it on no longer want it. I know most BTC nerds hate 'God', but the cashless society will pan out just as it written. 1 universal account # for everything. Nothing comes in or out without going through the system.  You think we're just numbers now, just wait.

[thaaanos]

---snip--
The knowledge of the fundamentals regarding gold is not widely circulating. You have to ask yourself again, and again and again until you reach the right answer. "WHY IS GOLD VALUABLE?". Don't settle for "I don't know" or "others seem to value it now and historically" as a self-circulating answer. If you want to really know the truth you may have to insist a bit more on it.

Because Anunnaki designed humans as their gold miner slaves, ooh and by the way NIBIRU is comming to collect.

Did I got that right

Supposing an answer like the above could spring up, the next logical question would be: Why did Anunnaki want the gold? Why did they considered it valuable to go to all that extent where they would have to engineer an entire species just to mine it with primitive means (instead of applying high-tech and extracting it on their own in a much better fashion)?

For their collection of solid element planets of their solar element system art project. This is the better fashion, low admin, assured self destruction, gold will be nicely stacked in one vault by they time they come back.

I find it more plausible, "Than the creator of the universe coded some intrinsic value in gold that only we humans are attuned to it"

Humans are creatures of habit and tradition, this is where gold's value come from. Gold has been around for thousand of years, while FIAT only for 50+ years.

[Mikcik]

Well yeah, thats what i also think more and more (the fact that china is buying gold just to "support" their monex printing and not to come out with their currency as a world reserve currency). The gold sellers are lying :-(, its almost disgusting...

Also its worth noting that Iraq (or some similiar state) have bought around 36 tonnes this year or at the end of the last year i think... its said it has been done to support their weaking currency, theres a nice precedent in this... if iraq managed to get 36 tonnes (bought) than i think FED should also manage to deliver the germany gold on time, the gold was avaiable in the market (iraq bought some) so it rises the question if FED really just didnt have some logistical issues and it reall has the gold...

The more i read, the more i belive the gold sellers are just lying and pumping their bussines, its their strategy probably, look at sites like:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/
http://www.ingoldwetrust.ch/
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/King_World_News.html


EVERY day there are news saying.... OMG! BOMBSHELL, gold is going to 50 000 $ an oz tommorow, keep stacking...

I think gold is being manipulated, but the manipulation is greatly on the side of the stupid sellers pumping their product :-(.

[superresistant]

Let's just stick to cryptos.

[thaaanos]

EVERY day there are news saying.... OMG! BOMBSHELL, gold is going to 50 000 $ an oz tommorow, keep stacking...

I think gold is being manipulated, but the manipulation is greatly on the side of the stupid sellers pumping their product :-(.

Let's just stick to cryptos.

Am I the only one who sees the Irony in this?

[AlexGR]

For their collection of solid element planets of their solar element system art project. This is the better fashion, low admin, assured self destruction, gold will be nicely stacked in one vault by they time they come back.

I find it more plausible, "Than the creator of the universe coded some intrinsic value in gold that only we humans are attuned to it"

I didn't say only humans were. Whether you are a human living on planet earth or a green ...martian living on mars, the universal rules and constants are the same.

Humans are creatures of habit and tradition, this is where gold's value come from. Gold has been around for thousand of years, while FIAT only for 50+ years.

Thousands of years indeed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy#History

"The earliest recorded metal employed by humans appears to be gold which can be found free or "native". Small amounts of natural gold have been found in Spanish caves used during the late Paleolithic period, c. 40,000 BC."

...I mean, you can't make this stuff up. ~45.000 years ago, the first metal that people used was ...gold. Of the dozens of metals, it had to be it...

I think gold is being manipulated, but the manipulation is greatly on the side of the stupid sellers pumping their product :-(.

Not so. You have to understand the global situation. In the west, gold selling to the masses is irrelevant as a force to affect the prices. Silverdoctors and gold bugs, doom-preppers and hyperinflationists, are buying metals in the millions of USD. More gold is actually sold by people who have to repay loans and mortgages and see their gold necklace or chain as less significant.

Annual gold production is in the 90bn USD range and it's all bought by massive buyers and citizens of eastern countries like India, China etc. The average joe in the west who might buy a few ounces is not even the 1% of the larger picture compared to India, for example, where EVERYONE buys gold.

Note that Indians aren't doing it because some guy in the tv or the internet says to do so, or because someone is pumping it. Rather, it's because gold is regarded as money and thus people don't even view it as an expenditure or "buying" - they just convert one type of useless money to another type of enduring money - knowing full well that it will preserve and enhance their wealth over the course of time. If you had to choose between rupees and gold, you'd take gold too.

[superresistant]

EVERY day there are news saying.... OMG! BOMBSHELL, gold is going to 50 000 $ an oz tommorow, keep stacking...
I think gold is being manipulated, but the manipulation is greatly on the side of the stupid sellers pumping their product :-(.

Let's just stick to cryptos.

Am I the only one who sees the Irony in this?

What irony ? The price of Bitcoin has been going from 10000BTC for a pizza to about $500 per BTC in no time.

I'm not gonna waste 10 years waiting for the price of Gold to eventually go up if the world economy collapse.

The profit you can make in cryptos every months is crazy. With gold, you just lose a bit of wealth every month hopping for the end of the world to get rich.

[zolace]

 think that the gold price is manipulated,by whom?why?the gold is manipulated by the big players on the market all over the world,maybe Americas gold resources are almost gone but there are other places on the planet with a lot of resources of gold;take for example Rosia Montana,is a mountain in Romania,since 2000 three big companies from USA ,Canada and Norway are fighting over it. The estimation of the gold on that mountain is 14,6 millions of ounces.
Why I think gold price is manipulated?Because only a small part of the gold resources becomes jewellery or gold bars, most of the gold goes in industry. Most of our electronics,cosmetics ,house ornaments ,even clothes have gold in it.The interests of  the companies whom use gold,is to buy it with the smallest price possible.

[thaaanos]

"The earliest recorded metal employed by humans appears to be gold which can be found free or "native". Small amounts of natural gold have been found in Spanish caves used during the late Paleolithic period, c. 40,000 BC."

...I mean, you can't make this stuff up. ~45.000 years ago, the first metal that people used was ...gold. Of the dozens of metals, it had to be it...

As long as women need ordaments, gold will have value. Same as diamonds, perls, and the rest of the shiny stuff

[Dr Bloggood]

"The earliest recorded metal employed by humans appears to be gold which can be found free or "native". Small amounts of natural gold have been found in Spanish caves used during the late Paleolithic period, c. 40,000 BC."

...I mean, you can't make this stuff up. ~45.000 years ago, the first metal that people used was ...gold. Of the dozens of metals, it had to be it...

As long as women need ordaments, gold will have value. Same as diamonds, perls, and the rest of the shiny stuff

That's what we are talking about: The shiny shiny bling bling.

[AlexGR]

It doesn't bling bling until you melt it, clean it and polish it, otherwise it's a pale yellow color which approaches metallic yellow with some degree of luster only under rare conditions (high purity ore in terms of composition, no impurities attached on the surface etc).

Even some of the large nuggets that are shown in museums etc, are cleaned with extremely strong acid to start showing their color.

On the other hand there are silvery metals and rock formations that bling-bling fantastically as they are. Certain crystals can also be amazing as a sight for a primitive man / caveman.

[AlexGR]

think that the gold price is manipulated,by whom?why?

By those who issue fiat currencies and have a ton to lose if their game is busted.

Declassified document showing the efforts of the US to reduce the importance of gold, to make deals with other countries not to buy gold and how it is stated that they want to prevent inflation (in fiat terms) in case countries started to reevaluate their gold possessions in actual market prices (which would expose the fiat scam if everything went 5-10x): http://www.gata.org/files/ArthurBurnsLetterToPresidentFord-June1975.pdf  

You can't make paper money and have it compete with gold. It's like making a shitty altcoin and expecting that its ratio to bitcoin will be climbing despite its bullshit properties and enormous inflation. You have to rig the game in favor of the paper money by collusion with "friends and allies" to undermine gold and act as if its unimportant.

Also read this: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-30/1974-enders-kissinger-we-should-look-hard-substantial-sales-raid-gold-market-once-an

U.S. objectives for world monetary system—a durable, stable system, with the SDR [ZH: or USD] as a strong reserve asset at its center — are incompatible with a continued important role for gold as a reserve asset.... It is the U.S. concern that any substantial increase now in the price at which official gold transactions are made would strengthen the position of gold in the system, and cripple the SDR [ZH: or USD]. In other words: gold can not be allowed to dominated a "durable, stable system", and a rising gold price would cripple the reserve currency du jour: well known by most, but always better to see it admitted in official Top Secret correspondence.
...
"Secretary Kissinger: But why is it against our interests? I understand the argument that it’s against our interest that the Europeans take a unilateral decision contrary to our policy. Why is it against our interest to have gold in the system? Mr. Enders: It’s against our interest to have gold in the system because for it to remain there it would result in it being evaluated periodically. Although we have still some substantial gold holdings—about 11 billion—a larger part of the official gold in the world is concentrated in Western Europe. This gives them the dominant position in world reserves and the dominant means of creating reserves. We’ve been trying to get away from that into a system in which we can control"

[g4c]

FT. Knox == Mt. Gox

c'mon everybody knows that and has done for some time. The USA is busted ass, there is no gold, it's as obvious as the nose on your face.

Why else do they refuse audits? If they had the gold they would be showing great hordes around the place and charging for the viewings .... it's the oldest trick in the book, a liar sitting in front of an empty vault. C'mon, really? you think Ft. Gox has gold? Whadda ya smoking?

So if they do an audit tomorrow and, say, 95% of the quantity is there, would that mean that they have the gold?

Audit = no proof because they are moving it around between western/globalized vaults.

Proof = when there is simultaneous audit in various large western vaults, both national and corporate, so that it can be ensured that the gold is not being moved around or melted/recasted into new bars with other serial #.

Given sufficient time lag for preparation, you can present ten thousand tons of gold in one vault this month, another 10ktons of gold in another vault in the next month etc etc - and give the appearance that everything is in order.

Good point, though logistically I think it may be cheaper to bribe the auditors with desirable things. They all drink in the same clubs anyway (bankers and auditors) it's just a big show for our sake, much like "democratic" voting.

But if some auditor did somehow turn out to be straight and honest and un-buyable, and for some reason it was not feasible to kill him, then yes... metal shuffling would work perfectly.

[g4c]

think that the gold price is manipulated,by whom?why?

By those who issue fiat currencies and have a ton to lose if their game is busted.

Declassified document showing the efforts of the US to reduce the importance of gold, to make deals with other countries not to buy gold and how it is stated that they want to prevent inflation (in fiat terms) in case countries started to reevaluate their gold possessions in actual market prices (which would expose the fiat scam if everything went 5-10x): http://www.gata.org/files/ArthurBurnsLetterToPresidentFord-June1975.pdf  

You can't make paper money and have it compete with gold. It's like making a shitty altcoin and expecting that its ratio to bitcoin will be climbing despite its bullshit properties and enormous inflation. You have to rig the game in favor of the paper money by collusion with "friends and allies" to undermine gold and act as if its unimportant.

It always warms my heart to know other folk can also see the wizard behind the curtain.

Incidentally, "The Wizard of Oz" is one long metaphor for banking and gold (yellow brick road) and various wrong doings, if you watch the movie with this in mind it's CRAZY.