[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[iCEBREAKER]

who the frell just dumped 6k Dash and made the dash/btc price take a shit?

this happened on Cryptsy, by the way.

some instamine sold to fund the circle jerk event.

LOL, ^this^

"Anonymous payments: DASH or Bitcoin+Mixers?"

Neither, because both are equally shitty/hopeless forms of off-chain obfuscation.

[Sapereaude]

Ahhh the ignore button still works perfectly

[TanteStefana2]

Yay! DASH is having a 5% OFF sale.

Thats because Litecoin and Dogue's sugar-daddies turned up.

It's not just litecoin, it's bitshares (I still don't get them, and if price volatility were supposed to stop with Bitshares, I don't see it??) Doge (I can almost understand, at least they have/had an enthusiastic following) and Stellar.

None of these have a solid decentralized network.  How DASH could fair so badly against them is incomprehensible to me. All of them being pumped at the same time too.  I'm so glad our developers and all of you don't get frustrated and keep your sense of humor against this insanity because I kind of get irritated at the nonsensical logic going on.  I know it's just a pump and dump game, and I see it with stocks and precious metals as well.  But since I've never taken an interest in finance until a year and a half ago, I still get frustrated, LOL.

So actually, if any of you - or if you could explain, toknormal, I'd sure appreciate a lesson.  What's their game?  Do they really entice enough people to join in on the buying, that they make money off of these pumps?  Or do they just play against each other?  I have a feeling that this is why I never got interested in finance, it simply never made sense.  My mom would try to get me interested in the stock market, and I'd ask, how do they know how much a business is worth?  And in the end, I learned nobody really knows, and you never really get to see actual accounting books, and it's always based on future performance, where the potential is factored into the price today.  Just like here, only here I can at least see/feel it

AH!  I just realized my problem.  That stupid coin market cap is like a score board, and our team is slipping in the ranks, and it's killing the cheerleader in me!  I want to jump into the game and bash some heads together!   LOL, that's it!  I've been so busy, I'm not here often enough, I come on, see the price down, our ranks slipping, and feel like my team is falling.  I really have to get a grip.  We're in a marathon, I must learn patience, LOL.

[bluebit25]

I would like to trade DASH/BitUSD somewhere... We should work with Bitshares to make this happen.

[Minotaur26]

Yay! DASH is having a 5% OFF sale.

Thats because Litecoin and Dogue's sugar-daddies turned up.

It's not just litecoin, it's bitshares (I still don't get them, and if price volatility were supposed to stop with Bitshares, I don't see it??) Doge (I can almost understand, at least they have/had an enthusiastic following) and Stellar.

None of these have a solid decentralized network.  How DASH could fair so badly against them is incomprehensible to me. All of them being pumped at the same time too.  I'm so glad our developers and all of you don't get frustrated and keep your sense of humor against this insanity because I kind of get irritated at the nonsensical logic going on.  I know it's just a pump and dump game, and I see it with stocks and precious metals as well.  But since I've never taken an interest in finance until a year and a half ago, I still get frustrated, LOL.

So actually, if any of you - or if you could explain, toknormal, I'd sure appreciate a lesson.  What's their game?  Do they really entice enough people to join in on the buying, that they make money off of these pumps?  Or do they just play against each other?  I have a feeling that this is why I never got interested in finance, it simply never made sense.  My mom would try to get me interested in the stock market, and I'd ask, how do they know how much a business is worth?  And in the end, I learned nobody really knows, and you never really get to see actual accounting books, and it's always based on future performance, where the potential is factored into the price today.  Just like here, only here I can at least see/feel it

AH!  I just realized my problem.  That stupid coin market cap is like a score board, and our team is slipping in the ranks, and it's killing the cheerleader in me!  I want to jump into the game and bash some heads together!   LOL, that's it!  I've been so busy, I'm not here often enough, I come on, see the price down, our ranks slipping, and feel like my team is falling.  I really have to get a grip.  We're in a marathon, I must learn patience, LOL.

It is a Chinese pump, in China crypto is 100% a speculative market it is used as a big casino, so volatility adds to the rush. It does not need any fundamental reasons for those movements it is just short term fluctuations. If you  check the volumes it is 80% Chinese volume.  The gap is small though, Dash price stability is always very impresive a few people will always try to take advantage of the coins that are momentarily pumping and that is OK.

Also remember that price is a more important factor in crypto than in other markets because you can move the price with a relatively small amount of the coins, so 100% premined assets like BTS or STR don't really count that much as the available supply is huge and not really trading.

Other coins have been affected a lot more than us by the people chasing the current pumps, that is because of Dash added stability.  For us is business as usual Evan and team are working hard to reach the next milestones just check Dash's Github and compare it to other assets activity.

[iCEBREAKER]

Evan and team are working hard to reach the next milestones just check Dash's Github and compare it to other assets activity.

[pille]

First:, I'm always a Dash supporter and this is not an attempt to troll.

When scrolling though coinmarketcap, Vertcoin got my attention again. 2000% last month, that is quiet a lot. So I went to their thead/site to see if there are some outstanding news. I found about "First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer" https://vertcoin.org/wp/stealth-addresses .

Now I would be interested to hear from the technicans here how secure these Stealth Address are? Is it really the "best solution" for anonymity like promoted? Many coins claimed this before (cryptonote for example) and all of them failed against darksend. what is the advantage of darksend agains stealth addresses?

Also Stealth Address don't seem to be something "new, first". Already saw it in xcash for exmaple? do they want to jump the anon hype with extravagant words?

At least I hope you can strengthen my trust into Dash again.

To the trolls who may quote: fuck you! only honest answers please.

[toknormal]

... it's very difficult for most of my friends here not to answer a troll straight away.

Let me help you out there.

Just picture a mentally sick dog in a busy metropolitan thoroughfare barking out a repeated grating shrill and vomiting on the pavement every few minutes while performing a convulsive circular dance.

Would you rather:

a) engage its views on the finer aspects of cryptocurrency technology & markets or,

b) get out of the way

[iCEBREAKER]

First:, I'm always a Dash supporter and this is not an attempt to troll.

When scrolling though coinmarketcap, Vertcoin got my attention again. 2000% last month, that is quiet a lot. So I went to their thead/site to see if there are some outstanding news. I found about "First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer" https://vertcoin.org/wp/stealth-addresses .

Now I would be interested to hear from the technicans here how secure these Stealth Address are? Is it really the "best solution" for anonymity like promoted? Many coins claimed this before (cryptonote for example) and all of them failed against darksend. what is the advantage of darksend agains stealth addresses?

Also Stealth Address don't seem to be something "new, first". Already saw it in xcash for exmaple? do they want to jump the anon hype with extravagant words?

At least I hope you can strengthen my trust into Dash again.

To the trolls who may quote: fuck you! only honest answers please.

Honest answer:  stealth addresses, while an improvement, are only a partial solution.  They need to be combined with ring signatures for truly effective privacy, anonymity, and unlinkability.

Honest question:  exactly how and when did Cryptonote "fail against darksend?"

Was there some kind of contest, review, or expert judgement?

AFAIK, Cryptonote is the only protocol mathematically proven to provide privacy, anonymity, and unlinkability.

[dEBRUYNE]

First:, I'm always a Dash supporter and this is not an attempt to troll.

When scrolling though coinmarketcap, Vertcoin got my attention again. 2000% last month, that is quiet a lot. So I went to their thead/site to see if there are some outstanding news. I found about "First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer" https://vertcoin.org/wp/stealth-addresses .

Now I would be interested to hear from the technicans here how secure these Stealth Address are? Is it really the "best solution" for anonymity like promoted? Many coins claimed this before (cryptonote for example) and all of them failed against darksend. what is the advantage of darksend agains stealth addresses?

Also Stealth Address don't seem to be something "new, first". Already saw it in xcash for exmaple? do they want to jump the anon hype with extravagant words?

At least I hope you can strengthen my trust into Dash again.

To the trolls who may quote: fuck you! only honest answers please.

Some more info on stealth addresses and how they work can be found here: http://sx.dyne.org/stealth.html

Unfortunately, I can't answer your other question. I have a question for you though, how exactly did cryptonote failed in using stealth addresses (or against darksend)?

@iCEBREAKER, you forgot untraceability.

EDIT: A more ELI5 answer from stackexchange (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20701/what-is-a-stealth-address)

As I understand it, the "stealth address" is intended to address a very specific problem. If you wish to solicit payments from the public, say by posting a donation address on your website, then everyone can see on the block chain that all those payments went to you, and perhaps try to track how you spend them.

With a stealth address, you ask payers to generate a unique address in such a way that you (using some additional data which is attached to the transaction) can deduce the corresponding private key. So although you publish a single "stealth address" on your website, the block chain sees all your incoming payments as going to separate addresses and has no way to correlate them. (Of course, any individual payer knows their payment went to you, and can trace how you spend it, but they don't learn anything about other people's payments to you.)

But you can get the same effect another way: just give each payer a unique address. Rather than posting a single public donation address on your website, have a button that generates a new unique address and saves the private key, or selects the next address from a long list of pre-generated addresses (whose private keys you hold somewhere safe). Just as before, the payments all go to separate addresses and there is no way to correlate them, nor for one payer to see that other payments went to you.

So the only difference with stealth addresses is essentially to move the chore of producing a unique address from the server to the client. Indeed, in some ways stealth addresses may be worse, since very few people use them, and if you are known to be one of them, it will be easier to connect stealth transactions with you.

It doesn't provide "100% anonymity". The fundamental anonymity weakness of Bitcoin remains - that everyone can follow the chain of payments, and if you know something about one transaction or the parties to it, you can deduce something about where those coins came from or where they went.

[Lebubar]

Now that I'm a Hero member can I say "fuck off dear" to other Hero member?

 

(three post up)

[toknormal]

I found about "First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer" https://vertcoin.org/wp/stealth-addresses .

Now I would be interested to hear from the technicans here how secure these Stealth Address are? Is it really the "best solution" for anonymity like promoted? Many coins claimed this before (cryptonote for example) and all of them failed against darksend. what is the advantage of darksend agains stealth addresses?

Stealth addresses are cryptographically "hidden" addresses so that your wallet can receive money but the sending address remains hidden. Cryptonote uses a combination of stealth addresses (for receiving I think) and ring signatures (for sending).

To cut a long story short, all technologies "work", it boils down to the contrasting properties of public vs non-public blockchains.

The reason I invested in Dash and not Cryptonote is that Dash has a public blockchain which I think is an aspect of electronic "money" that can never be compromised if you want to maintain a high level of confidence in the system. Consider how many visits blockchain.info gets per day with people checking this that and everything - an opaque blockchain removes all that accountability from the system leaving it open to scams, heists and fearmongering rumours designed to play havoc with markets.

Nor is telling people "it's math" any good. As I stated in another post, people don't get on planes because they got shown a bunch of aerodynamic equations. They get on them because they see others getting on and not dropping out of the sky.

Bitcoin has survived an unbelievable battering over the last 5 years - from the press, from rumourmills about "malleability double spends", from exchange heists - you name it, it's suffered it. Yet through all that experience, nobody questions its technical integrity today. It has survived and the fact that it did is due in no small measure to the public blockchain supporting a level of accountability and confidence that it unmatched by any financial system be it fiat, precious metal markets or other.

Public consensus is what ultimately "defines" money and you can't have public consensus without a public blockchain. Bitcoin is already an anonymous currency - nobody has yet discovered the identities of the major thieves of the last few years by inspecting the blockchain. Dash boosts this anonymity by an order of magnitude without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and blowing "public consensus" out of the water.

For more developed posts see:

Blockchains and the "right" place to implement cryptography in cryptocurrencies if you want to create money instead of a cryptographic bookkeeping system
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg11035761#msg11035761

The value of public consensus and blockchain auditability:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1064814.msg11429953#msg11429953

Finally, consider this: No monetary medium has ever coupled privacy as a property to the medium itself (for the obvious reason that it isn't 'money' anymore if you do that). Dash boosts privacy, not by hiding the money, but by improving massively on bitcoin's fungibility. Once you've done that, the Satoshi cryptocurrency model naturally takes care of privacy (by the means explained in the first of those two links).

If we do monetary "systems analysis" as if we were designing a business system, we can verify that this is the right approach because:

[1] - fungibility is a an intrinsic monetary property which is cited in countless definitions of "money"

[2] - privacy is an extrinsic monetary property (a property of something outside the monetary medium, like your floorboards where you store the gold)

In bitcoin, that 'extrinsic property' is the universal set of private keys (those are the 'floorboards', the public addresses are the bar of gold. You need to know the private key to access the public commodity).

This model works very powerfully for both criteria - confidence and privacy - when the public blockchain's fungibility is optimal. That is exactly what Dash is designed to address.

[BlockaFett]

I sense a disturbance in the Trollero™

[MasterMined710]

I would like to trade DASH/BitUSD somewhere... We should work with Bitshares to make this happen.

shapeshift can do that. it would be cool to have an in-exchange wallet like bitshares though. it could probably be done by integrating shapeshift in to the wallet somehow.

[pille]

So in terms of untraceability cryptonote+stealth addresses is not less secure than darksend? Thought I read about an possible attack, even on wikipedia, but cant find it anymore.

Anyways thanks for all interesting answers.

[dEBRUYNE]

So in terms of untraceability cryptonote+stealth addresses is not less secure than darksend? Thought I read about an possible attack, even on wikipedia, but cant find it anymore.

Anyways thanks for all interesting answers.

Certainly not. If your interested behind the technology behind it, I would advice to read the cryptonote whitepaper (they also explain why it is secure and how it works in an easy to understand way) -> https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf and also the review of the whitepaper -> https://downloads.getmonero.org/whitepaper_review.pdf. Additional readings -> https://lab.getmonero.org/. I hope this was of help to you.

[MasterMined710]

-snip-

Also remember that price is a more important factor in crypto than in other markets because you can move the price with a relatively small amount of the coins, so 100% premined assets like BTS or STR don't really count that much as the available supply is huge and not really trading.

Other coins have been affected a lot more than us by the people chasing the current pumps, that is because of Dash added stability.  For us is business as usual Evan and team are working hard to reach the next milestones just check Dash's Github and compare it to other assets activity.

bts is not 100% premined or premined at all in the traditional sense. everyone who mined/bought protoshares (for over a year) got bts. i think nxt was 100% premined though.

[Salkenex]

... it's very difficult for most of my friends here not to answer a troll straight away.

Let me help you out there.

Just picture a mentally sick dog in a busy metropolitan thoroughfare barking out a repeated grating shrill and vomiting on the pavement every few minutes while performing a convulsive circular dance.

Would you rather:

a) engage its views on the finer aspects of cryptocurrency technology & markets or,

b) get out of the way

or

c) just put a bullet in the poor things head and put it out of its (and our) misery.

I pick C.

[Sub-Ether]

...
This model works very powerfully for both criteria - confidence and privacy - when the public blockchain's fungibility is optimal. That is exactly what Dash is designed to address.

Damn it, you're good, promise never to stop posting else my learning will be impeded  

[mightgetlucky]

Guys ur not fuding enough i need my daily dose of crypto drama!