[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

b.t.w. Very interesting Greg Maxwell talk on privacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TYQ-3VvNCHE#t=304

[Sub-Ether]

...
Visa is just an accounting system that shuffles numbers around the globe. Those numbers can just as easily represent crypto as fiat.

We are hashing out some ideas for the first round of masternode funded projects, am thinking an off chain accounting system should be a priority, perhaps 2 devs on this as its a tricky idea to complete and requires knowledge in the finance areas.
if you don't mind, I may have to quote you to backup my lack of understanding, but if you have anything to add or want to join the project, please do   ...

https://dashtalk.org/threads/discussion-projects-founded-by-blockchain.5419/#post-56559

[poiuty]

 

[splawik21]

 

I don't like you already
Never got any more than 3.75 and you show >4.... Shame on you

[Minotaur26]

There seems to be a lot of activity on Github, it looks like Evan and team are progressing at a nice pace.  I can't wait for testnet it is nice to see constant and verifiable progress. I have not come across a more active and dedicated dev team yet in the altcoin world.

[GhostPlayer]

 Can anyone remind who did that very cool animate gif during the rebrand, when the "C" in "Cash" starts spinning and the Dash "D" appears?

 

[shojayxt]

I hope I wasn't to hard on the Limey's
NO - not you UK fuck's because I still luv's you UK'er's / Lime'y bastards - WOOT!!!

LMAFO

Read on: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=895425.msg11580482#msg11580482



yeah - I can live with the above cross - post


NOW DASHER - NOW.....




edit: God forbid I cause somebody to make a RudolfCoin - just in time for Christmas 2015 - ugh

I don't know anything other than what is in the LIMX OP but that is a lot of hate for a fork of an open source project.  It doesn't portray you or Dash in a very positive light at all.

I also think that to post language like the following alongside the Dash logo is vile.

1 - ATTACK the FUCK out of DASH - Yeah, you heard me - ATTACK DASH like a BITCH looking for some dick on her last egg. I don't mean go and VERBAL attack DASH - I want to see people CODING to attack DASH - Try to find a way to BREAK DASH - MAKE me say I'm sorry as I watch DASH get fucked in the ass - come on you fucking tards - let me watch as you rape my babies..... I think you get the point.....

Looks like mangledblue has come unhinged.  Pretty bad way to represent a supposedly professional project..  Reminiscent of that one clown camo-something that used to post and always sounded like they were having a nervous breakdown.  Probably the same person just different screen name.

As you were. 

[GhostPlayer]

omg, ebolajax has resurrected...  

 One of the original obsessive compulsive trolls of Dash history  

 (hey, I've ben away almost a month, please forgive my troll itch scratching, have to get used again to be here o bitcointak.org and just ignore)

[semajjames]

ouch.

why do we need to see this ?

[semajjames]

So has anyone found a new url for Dash/Btc at cryptsy ?

[Sub-Ether]

hey, I've ben away almost a month, please forgive my troll itch scratching, have to get used again to be here o bitcointak.org and just ignore)

Welcome back 

https://www.braindecoder.com/what-happens-to-the-brain-in-a-concussion-1192447662.html

[sangoku]

b.t.w. Very interesting Greg Maxwell talk on privacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TYQ-3VvNCHE#t=304

Digital Cash = Darksend + InstantX

[toknormal]

Financial waves lapping up against banks. People dumping 1% bonds for 2.

Also check: http://www.silverdoctors.com/fund-manager-a-derivatives-bomb-exploded-within-the-last-two-weeks/

[RenegadeMan]

Financial waves lapping up against banks. People dumping 1% bonds for 2.

Also check: http://www.silverdoctors.com/fund-manager-a-derivatives-bomb-exploded-within-the-last-two-weeks/

Tok, one of the harder things to understand about the ebb and flow of world currency markets is the bond yield rate. It's one of those barometers that seems to have numbers attached that work in opposite directions to most other things.

I've just read this article and (as much as I've enjoyed reading Evans-Pritchard's stuff in the past) I'm struggling to understand much of the jargon and throw-away lines he's using.

I wonder if you'd be prepared to summarise the key points highlighting how these yield increases...

Paper losses over the last three months have reached $1.2 trillion. Yields have jumped by 175 basis points in Indonesia, 160 in South Africa, 150 in Turkey, 130 in Mexico, and 80 in Australia.

...fit into the overall alarming picture?

And this bit...

Bond vigilantes - supposed to have a sixth sense for incipient inflation, their nemesis - strangely missed this money surge on both sides of the Atlantic. Yet M1 is typically a six-month leading indicator for the economy, and M3 leads by a year or so. The monetary mechanisms may be damaged but it would be courting fate to assume that they have broken down altogether.

...I really don't understand at all (what's "M1" and "M3"?)


Edit: Love your graphic BTW.

[toknormal]

I wonder if you'd be prepared to summarise the key points highlighting how these yield increases...

ok, at the risk of my amateur appraisal being shot down in flames by someone far more qualified....

...think of a big huge V. The top left end of the V is 1981 and the bottom apex is now (i.e. the right hand stem is all future).

Since 1981, interest rates have basically been falling. When big pension funds and the like invest money, they usually invest a good whack into government bonds which are considered one of the safest investments in the world since the guv can always tax people if it runs out of cash. (It can also print new money but it needs to 'back' that money with new debt in the form of more bonds).

So consider buying fixed interest rate bonds in 1981 when the interest rate was sky high up in the 18% region. You'd be on a winner if it was a 30 year bond because your money would be earning interest at a rate well above inflation for the whole period since prevailing interest rates have been declining since then along with inflation.

Now consider buying even a 5 year bond now - at almost zero interest rate. We are at the bottom of the V. Governments have been printing money like there's now tomorrow. According to that AEP article there are signs of inflation on the horizon. What that means is three very BAD things for your 5 year bond you just purchased:

[1] - you're going to be underwater for the foreseeable future because you're bond won't even earn you the inflation rate

[2] - the PRICE of your bond will fall (bond prices work in reverse to their yield, that's because if nobody wants to buy it, the lender has to offer more of a return until they find a buyer)

[3] - if inflation is on the rise then interest rates will also to keep it under control, so new bonds will be issued with a much better rate than yours, further encouraging people to dump at a loss and buy the new ones with higher yield

So what will you do ? Why, dump it of course. Which is exactly what everyone's doing and why the Germans just had to bump their bond yields up to 1%.

This is Max Keiser's "Bond Apocalypse" he keeps talking about.

There are other problems: big investors are hedged against this scenario using derivatives such as interest rate swaps. What that means is that when the yield on their investment goes below a certain floor, they are allowed to swap it for another investment who's yield is still high.

Guess who happens to be one of the biggest - if not the biggest - writers of these kind of swaps in the world ? Deutche Bank. Which is why the spotlight is on them in adverse financial conditions such as this. It's one thing to write out pieces of paper willy nilly saying you'll bail everybody out in the event of a fire, it's probably quite another to actually find the liquidity to do it when the s.h.t.f.

...I really don't understand at all (what's "M1" and "M3"?)

These are different grades of money supply. M1 is basically "narrow money" as it's called which means cash - i.e. it's very liquid. M3 is stuff that you can't readily liquidate - money market money and that type of stuff.

Lets say we had two types of money in this thread - Dash and the promise of Dash. i.e. some people were floating around actually doing InstantX wallet transfers and others were floating around exchanging bits of paper saying "promise to pay the bearer on demand X amount of Dash". In the event of a financial crisis, the people holding actual Dash in their wallets are fairly safe. The people trading the IOU's need to first liquify their paper - i.e. go back to the issuer and cash in their IOUs for real Dash so they're one step away in terms of liquidity.

In that scenario, the 'real Dash' would be narrow money (M0 or M1) and the paper would be 'broad money (M3).

The problem that many people are anticipating in the financial system is exactly this scramble for liquidity. Thats what has the potential to collapse the derivative markets because in the Fiat system there are umpteen layers of these liquidity cascades.

Hope I've not told too many lies there !

[tungfa]

Tx Raptor73
 

[Jesse Livermore]

I wonder if you'd be prepared to summarise the key points highlighting how these yield increases...

ok, at the risk of my amateur appraisal being shot down in flames by someone far more qualified....

...think of a big huge V. The top left end of the V is 1981 and the bottom apex is now (i.e. the right hand stem is all future).

Since 1981, interest rates have basically been falling. When big pension funds and the like invest money, they usually invest a good whack into government bonds which are considered one of the safest investments in the world since the guv can always tax people if it runs out of cash. (It can also print new money but it needs to 'back' that money with new debt in the form of more bonds).

So consider buying fixed interest rate bonds in 1981 when the interest rate was sky high up in the 18% region. You'd be on a winner if it was a 30 year bond because your money would be earning interest at a rate well above inflation for the whole period since prevailing interest rates have been declining since then along with inflation.

Now consider buying even a 5 year bond now - at almost zero interest rate. We are at the bottom of the V. Governments have been printing money like there's now tomorrow. According to that AEP article there are signs of inflation on the horizon. What that means is three very BAD things for your 5 year bond you just purchased:

[1] - you're going to be underwater for the foreseeable future because you're bond won't even earn you the inflation rate

[2] - the PRICE of your bond will fall (bond prices work in reverse to their yield, that's because if nobody wants to buy it, the lender has to offer more of a return until they find a buyer)

[3] - if inflation is on the rise then interest rates will also to keep it under control, so new bonds will be issued with a much better rate than yours, further encouraging people to dump at a loss and buy the new ones with higher yield

So what will you do ? Why, dump it of course. Which is exactly what everyone's doing and why the Germans just had to bump their bond yields up to 1%.

This is Max Keiser's "Bond Apocalypse" he keeps talking about.

There are other problems: big investors are hedged against this scenario using derivatives such as interest rate swaps. What that means is that when the yield on their investment goes below a certain floor, they are allowed to swap it for another investment who's yield is still high.

Guess who happens to be one of the biggest - if not the biggest - writers of these kind of swaps in the world ? Deutche Bank. Which is why the spotlight is on them in adverse financial conditions such as this. It's one thing to write out pieces of paper willy nilly saying you'll bail everybody out in the event of a fire, it's probably quite another to actually find the liquidity to do it when the s.h.t.f.

...I really don't understand at all (what's "M1" and "M3"?)

These are different grades of money supply. M1 is basically "narrow money" as it's called which means cash - i.e. it's very liquid. M3 is stuff that you can't readily liquidate - money market money and that type of stuff.

Lets say we had two types of money in this thread - Dash and the promise of Dash. i.e. some people were floating around actually doing InstantX wallet transfers and others were floating around exchanging bits of paper saying "promise to pay the bearer on demand X amount of Dash". In the event of a financial crisis, the people holding actual Dash in their wallets are fairly safe. The people trading the IOU's need to first liquify their paper - i.e. go back to the issuer and cash in their IOUs for real Dash so they're one step away in terms of liquidity.

In that scenario, the 'real Dash' would be narrow money (M0 or M1) and the paper would be 'broad money (M3).

The problem that many people are anticipating in the financial system is exactly this scramble for liquidity. Thats what has the potential to collapse the derivative markets because in the Fiat system there are umpteen layers of these liquidity cascades.

Hope I've not told too many lies there !

I'm in the biz, derivative trader friends are no worried more than usual, there is no 'mutterings' of trouble somewhere any more than usual. This article is 90% sensational bs to get the emotions running scared in gold and silver-buyers. Deutsche Bank co-CEOs are out because they don't know how to manage their companies and because legal fees have been ridiculous. Wall Street Journal tells the complete story, unlike this sensational fear-monger...http://www.wsj.com/articles/deutsche-bank-co-ceos-to-announce-resignations-1433674815
Anyhow the 10% of the article which is accurate is that transports are breaking away from the overall market, something typically seen at market, and economic, peaks. However it should be noted that the airline sector was helping to drive Transports higher and higher and they likely saw their peak weeks ago with the bottoming of oil....so my point is Transports diverging from the market might just be a sector-specific thing versus a monumental shift from an expanding economy to a retracting economy slowly taking hold.
How does this tie in to Dash? It doesn't really. We really have no clue yet on how cryptos are correlated to economic recessions. Maybe Dash is a safe haven, maybe BTC is a safehaven, maybe they're all speculative assets which get demolished during recessions....It should be obvious by now however that the mere existence of any value tied to cryptos should scare the bajesus out of the government and the investment world because it can be made completely untouchable to the government in the event that they need to produce tax revenues to pay off bonds and, unlike gold, you can spend cryptos and don't necessarily have high storage costs nor require a gun to protecting it. So maybe if the shit hits the fan so bad that governments raid IRA's and 401k's and lockdown checking account cash withdrawals then maybe cryptos are the true safehaven after all....and maybe then Dash's anonymity factor will become vital to civilization angry at government mistakes and control and so it'll gain serious value. $1,000 per Dash sounds about right in that scenario.
Sorry for the long reply, good to be back!

JL

[RenegadeMan]

I wonder if you'd be prepared to summarise the key points highlighting how these yield increases...

ok, at the risk of my amateur appraisal being shot down in flames by someone far more qualified....

...think of a big huge V. The top left end of the V is 1981 and the bottom apex is now (i.e. the right hand stem is all future).

Since 1981, interest rates have basically been falling. When big pension funds and the like invest money, they usually invest a good whack into government bonds which are considered one of the safest investments in the world since the guv can always tax people if it runs out of cash. (It can also print new money but it needs to 'back' that money with new debt in the form of more bonds).

So consider buying fixed interest rate bonds in 1981 when the interest rate was sky high up in the 18% region. You'd be on a winner if it was a 30 year bond because your money would be earning interest at a rate well above inflation for the whole period since prevailing interest rates have been declining since then along with inflation.

Now consider buying even a 5 year bond now - at almost zero interest rate. We are at the bottom of the V. Governments have been printing money like there's now tomorrow. According to that AEP article there are signs of inflation on the horizon. What that means is three very BAD things for your 5 year bond you just purchased:

[1] - you're going to be underwater for the foreseeable future because you're bond won't even earn you the inflation rate

[2] - the PRICE of your bond will fall (bond prices work in reverse to their yield, that's because if nobody wants to buy it, the lender has to offer more of a return until they find a buyer)

[3] - if inflation is on the rise then interest rates will also to keep it under control, so new bonds will be issued with a much better rate than yours, further encouraging people to dump at a loss and buy the new ones with higher yield

So what will you do ? Why, dump it of course. Which is exactly what everyone's doing and why the Germans just had to bump their bond yields up to 1%.

This is Max Keiser's "Bond Apocalypse" he keeps talking about.

There are other problems: big investors are hedged against this scenario using derivatives such as interest rate swaps. What that means is that when the yield on their investment goes below a certain floor, they are allowed to swap it for another investment who's yield is still high.

Guess who happens to be one of the biggest - if not the biggest - writers of these kind of swaps in the world ? Deutche Bank. Which is why the spotlight is on them in adverse financial conditions such as this. It's one thing to write out pieces of paper willy nilly saying you'll bail everybody out in the event of a fire, it's probably quite another to actually find the liquidity to do it when the s.h.t.f.

...I really don't understand at all (what's "M1" and "M3"?)

These are different grades of money supply. M1 is basically "narrow money" as it's called which means cash - i.e. it's very liquid. M3 is stuff that you can't readily liquidate - money market money and that type of stuff.

Lets say we had two types of money in this thread - Dash and the promise of Dash. i.e. some people were floating around actually doing InstantX wallet transfers and others were floating around exchanging bits of paper saying "promise to pay the bearer on demand X amount of Dash". In the event of a financial crisis, the people holding actual Dash in their wallets are fairly safe. The people trading the IOU's need to first liquify their paper - i.e. go back to the issuer and cash in their IOUs for real Dash so they're one step away in terms of liquidity.

In that scenario, the 'real Dash' would be narrow money (M0 or M1) and the paper would be 'broad money (M3).

The problem that many people are anticipating in the financial system is exactly this scramble for liquidity. Thats what has the potential to collapse the derivative markets because in the Fiat system there are umpteen layers of these liquidity cascades.

Hope I've not told too many lies there !

Thanks very much Toknormal; I think that's an excellent reply (but that assessment is based on my ability to understand the concepts you're elaborating on; obviously not necessarily that they're valid). It's clear that the bond markets are incredibly important as a bellweather for overall health/risk. I'm keen to get a greater understanding of it. What makes this stuff so hard to comprehend is when you figure in the effect of these financial instruments such as interest rate swaps. The world seems to be so leveraged off of other forms of leverage. One day when we have to pick up the pieces, there'll be howls of protest as to how we let the whole system get so out of hand (and by "we" I mean basically that Wall St 'Gods' have been allowed to continue on building more and more complexity unchecked because it's just too hard for an average citizen to comprehend and understand to know there's even a big problem let alone tackle it).

[RenegadeMan]

I wonder if you'd be prepared to summarise the key points highlighting how these yield increases...

ok, at the risk of my amateur appraisal being shot down in flames by someone far more qualified....

...think of a big huge V. The top left end of the V is 1981 and the bottom apex is now (i.e. the right hand stem is all future).

Since 1981, interest rates have basically been falling. When big pension funds and the like invest money, they usually invest a good whack into government bonds which are considered one of the safest investments in the world since the guv can always tax people if it runs out of cash. (It can also print new money but it needs to 'back' that money with new debt in the form of more bonds).

So consider buying fixed interest rate bonds in 1981 when the interest rate was sky high up in the 18% region. You'd be on a winner if it was a 30 year bond because your money would be earning interest at a rate well above inflation for the whole period since prevailing interest rates have been declining since then along with inflation.

Now consider buying even a 5 year bond now - at almost zero interest rate. We are at the bottom of the V. Governments have been printing money like there's now tomorrow. According to that AEP article there are signs of inflation on the horizon. What that means is three very BAD things for your 5 year bond you just purchased:

[1] - you're going to be underwater for the foreseeable future because you're bond won't even earn you the inflation rate

[2] - the PRICE of your bond will fall (bond prices work in reverse to their yield, that's because if nobody wants to buy it, the lender has to offer more of a return until they find a buyer)

[3] - if inflation is on the rise then interest rates will also to keep it under control, so new bonds will be issued with a much better rate than yours, further encouraging people to dump at a loss and buy the new ones with higher yield

So what will you do ? Why, dump it of course. Which is exactly what everyone's doing and why the Germans just had to bump their bond yields up to 1%.

This is Max Keiser's "Bond Apocalypse" he keeps talking about.

There are other problems: big investors are hedged against this scenario using derivatives such as interest rate swaps. What that means is that when the yield on their investment goes below a certain floor, they are allowed to swap it for another investment who's yield is still high.

Guess who happens to be one of the biggest - if not the biggest - writers of these kind of swaps in the world ? Deutche Bank. Which is why the spotlight is on them in adverse financial conditions such as this. It's one thing to write out pieces of paper willy nilly saying you'll bail everybody out in the event of a fire, it's probably quite another to actually find the liquidity to do it when the s.h.t.f.

...I really don't understand at all (what's "M1" and "M3"?)

These are different grades of money supply. M1 is basically "narrow money" as it's called which means cash - i.e. it's very liquid. M3 is stuff that you can't readily liquidate - money market money and that type of stuff.

Lets say we had two types of money in this thread - Dash and the promise of Dash. i.e. some people were floating around actually doing InstantX wallet transfers and others were floating around exchanging bits of paper saying "promise to pay the bearer on demand X amount of Dash". In the event of a financial crisis, the people holding actual Dash in their wallets are fairly safe. The people trading the IOU's need to first liquify their paper - i.e. go back to the issuer and cash in their IOUs for real Dash so they're one step away in terms of liquidity.

In that scenario, the 'real Dash' would be narrow money (M0 or M1) and the paper would be 'broad money (M3).

The problem that many people are anticipating in the financial system is exactly this scramble for liquidity. Thats what has the potential to collapse the derivative markets because in the Fiat system there are umpteen layers of these liquidity cascades.

Hope I've not told too many lies there !

I'm in the biz, derivative trader friends are no worried more than usual, there is no 'mutterings' of trouble somewhere any more than usual. This article is 90% sensational bs to get the emotions running scared in gold and silver-buyers. Deutsche Bank co-CEOs are out because they don't know how to manage their companies and because legal fees have been ridiculous. Wall Street Journal tells the complete story, unlike this sensational fear-monger...http://www.wsj.com/articles/deutsche-bank-co-ceos-to-announce-resignations-1433674815
Anyhow the 10% of the article which is accurate is that transports are breaking away from the overall market, something typically seen at market, and economic, peaks. However it should be noted that the airline sector was helping to drive Transports higher and higher and they likely saw their peak weeks ago with the bottoming of oil....so my point is Transports diverging from the market might just be a sector-specific thing versus a monumental shift from an expanding economy to a retracting economy slowly taking hold.
How does this tie in to Dash? It doesn't really. We really have no clue yet on how cryptos are correlated to economic recessions. Maybe Dash is a safe haven, maybe BTC is a safehaven, maybe they're all speculative assets which get demolished during recessions....It should be obvious by now however that the mere existence of any value tied to cryptos should scare the bajesus out of the government and the investment world because it can be made completely untouchable to the government in the event that they need to produce tax revenues to pay off bonds and, unlike gold, you can spend cryptos and don't necessarily have high storage costs nor require a gun to protecting it. So maybe if the shit hits the fan so bad that governments raid IRA's and 401k's and lockdown checking account cash withdrawals then maybe cryptos are the true safehaven after all....and maybe then Dash's anonymity factor will become vital to civilization angry at government mistakes and control and so it'll gain serious value. $1,000 per Dash sounds about right in that scenario.
Sorry for the long reply, good to be back!

JL

Thanks Jesse. That's an interesting counter view too. I've also always enjoyed your posts and hope you will comment like this a lot more in future as well.

I would be fascinating to sit a room with you, Toknormal and your associates and hear what you all think about China. From what I can tell of the way the shadow banking system loans money based on collateral that's been used for other loans dozens (potentially even hundreds) of times prior, that's one big house of cards I don't know how Beijing will handle when it starts tumbling. And we surely can't be too far away from the real estate bubble there seriously imploding.

[Rux]

So has anyone found a new url for Dash/Btc at cryptsy ?

i never realised there was a new link besides this link, except for DRK_BTC months ago...

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/DASH_BTC