[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[xtester]

NEM may be one of the most interesting equality experiments(opportunity) and paradoxically probably one of the most important case studies against it(outcome).

I think this experiment may attract a great deal of attention if we find a smart way to make ourselves heard. Imagine how much coverage we could be able to get because of superior technological innovation in technical circles but also how much more this could bring because of this intriguing experiment and case study for economic circles. I suspect a lot of serious technical and economic journals along with countless news outlets would be interested in such a phenomena.

I am thinking of something we could write and a plan of how to do it.

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[31049685]

nem is a good coin,But someone took nfd2 and nem compare, this should is not a class, nfd2 is just a replica, and nem is something completely new

[jelin1984]

final how many nem stakes will be out after the official blockchain  

[patmast3r]

nem is a good coin,But someone took nfd2 and nem compare, this should is not a class, nfd2 is just a replica, and nem is something completely new

got a link to that thread ?

[jabo38]

NEM equality experiment and the marshmallow test

What equality means?

The other day I found myself reflecting on NEM, what it is and what we all want to make of it. It seems there is a great discussion going on in the world regarding inequality and so NEM equality experiment comes at the precisely right point in time. As usual I think people focus on the wrong things. We should strive to give people equal opportunities, but they are not and should not be equal in outcome. In fact, though most of us start as equal now, I have no doubt we will not end es equal. If high productivity people work and risk 10x more than the other people, it's common sense that they should also be rewarded 10x more. Indeed, I think this kind of inequality is a natural and even necessary effect of the free market. If you would want to cut this kind of inequality off, you would also have to cut startups, inventions and innovations with it, since this may be the greatest driver for that.

Here are two quotes with which I tend to agree:

Worry about skin in the game, not inequality. Worry about equality in opportunity not outcome. Worry about the powerful corporations taking over the system via lobbyists and blocking artisans. Worry about the class of privileged mandarins-WNSITG (with no skin in the game) taking over the system via "grandes ecoles"..." - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. - Unknown

The altcoin landscape and financial freedom

Unfortunately the altcoin landscape is currently plagued with cheap scams, elaborate pump and dump schems and a lot of impulsive people to play this game. However NEM has nothing to do with this landscape. While we may well go through a cambrian crypto-explosion phase, NEM seems to be already between the fittest and is only getting stronger every passing day.

I know things are more complex but for the sake of simplicity consider the following graph:

                                                                              The Altcoin Landscape

                                
                             Cheap Scams          Elaborate Scams             Clones                Low Innovation         Deep Innovation
                                      I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I

       Approx. Time:        1 Day                      1 Week                  1 Month               3 - 6 Months                1 Year

      Approx. Difficulty:      1/10                       2/10                       4/10                       6/10                       10/10

Approx. Value Created:    1 btc                      10 btc                     50 btc                    100 btc                    10000 btc



What you must understand is that while it would take 1 day to create a cheap scam, 1 month to clone a complex coin like Nxt, it would probably take around 1 year to invent a deeply innovative coin if you have all other necessary resources at your disposal(Nxt would be good example of that). Indeed, it would be both stupid and frustrating to confuse deep innovation with clones or low innovation and demand otherwise. NEM aims to bring deep innovation on multiple levels, so when alpha and more details will be out, I think people will get very excited. Indeed this could be one of the most important developments of the altcoin world in 2014.

Starting with our extremely competent and responsible dev team, our large, talented and diverse community, our fair distribution and equality experiment, I think you can see with each passing day, NEM is evolving to be a whole different creature than anything you have seen it the altcoin world until now. But in order to see that, you must get out of the noisy and impulsive crowd and focus on the signal. If you look close enough I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

NEM and marshmallows

It seems there are two major impediments on the road to financial freedom. One of them is the economic and banking system which we are trying to solve at least partially through NEM. The other one is a bit more counter-intuitive and less thought of, it's ourselves(with all the decisions and wrong moves we make). If we want to achieve something we must shift from a consumer mindset to a producer mindset.

Looking at the marshmallow experiment which emphasizes self-control and delayed gratification as a better predictor of success than IQ, I can only wonder what all those people selling NEM now will think in a couple of months.

If you would have to choose between receiving 1.5 btc for your share now or delaying gratification and receiving 10x that amount in a couple of months, what would you choose?

If self-control and delayed gratification are a good predictor of success, it seems to me impulsivity may be an even better predictor of failure.

So in the end, I can only say be wise and make smart decisions because although we all start with an equal opportunity, ultimately our decisions, contributions and productivity will decide our outcome, and trust me, as it looks, there won't be any equality in that.

Another great and informative post!

I really feel that crypto 3.0 will be an interface/information presentation revolution. We can use technology to give people better information and help them make informed decisions.

I agree.  I feel a little bad for the people that don't get this and sold their NEM.  The focus is on "little" as in just a very little bit. 

At the same time, we have received lots of new and serious people in the NEM community and I feel a lot more happy to have them with us!

[zsuhsl]

The price seems on the rise

Trade History
Date    Quantity    Price    Total    Ask Order ID    Bid Order ID
2014/6/4 19:04:03   0.1   19'000   1'900   13838705541561030118   15218161134586927381
2014/6/4 19:00:40   0.5   19'000   9'500   13838705541561030118   12592764873823771756
2014/6/4 18:56:08   0.1   19'000   1'900   13838705541561030118   1950315261879852746
2014/6/4 18:33:55   0.2   19'000   3'800   13838705541561030118   6804942866658459697
2014/6/4 17:52:40   0.3   18'950   5'685   45437626522202554           7469090376419998876

[patmast3r]

nem is a good coin,But someone took nfd2 and nem compare, this should is not a class, nfd2 is just a replica, and nem is something completely new

got a link to that thread ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603932.0

nfd was a scam.. but the scammer actually done a really good job on distribution(even if it wasnt ever going to happen) so the people in the community took over and are now launching the coin by using the origonal spread sheet used for distribution and tracking investment. those who lost money dont need to buy back in but those who got a refund will need to reinvest into it. it looks promising..

Thx but I actually meant a link to the comparison.

[jabo38]

NEM has now had so much volume on the NXT asset exchange that it is not only #1, it is bigger than all the rest put together. 

This is a small win, lets not go crazy about, but lets also try to work to make more and more wins!

[jyou17]

I'm extremely excited about NEM and although I have not really been active apart from telling my mates about it, I have been following the thread and NEMs progress closely. Im glad I bought a stake, even if it was at a high price during the very beginning of stakes. The developers and community have blown me away and I will be holding my stake for many years as we push this coin into the world. Congratulations to everyone's successes so dar and may there be many more. We will be recieving our stakes upon alpha launch. Is this correct?

[kaleruka]

NEM has now had so much volume on the NXT asset exchange that it is not only #1, it is bigger than all the rest put together. 

This is a small win, lets not go crazy about, but lets also try to work to make more and more wins!

Yes the NXT now step walk in the front, leading all the COINS As its supporters are really make people happy happy things
 

[kaleruka]

I'm extremely excited about NEM and although I have not really been active apart from telling my mates about it, I have been following the thread and NEMs progress closely. Im glad I bought a stake, even if it was at a high price during the very beginning of stakes. The developers and community have blown me away and I will be holding my stake for many years as we push this coin into the world. Congratulations to everyone's successes so dar and may there be many more. We will be recieving our stakes upon alpha launch. Is this correct?

yes Nem, of course, is the most sought-after COINS This is no doubt about it
Come on We will see the bright future
 

[utopianfuture]

NEM's Great Equality Experiment And The Marshmallow Test

What Equality Means?

The other day I found myself reflecting on NEM, what it is and what we all want to make of it. It seems there is a great discussion going on in the world regarding inequality and so NEM equality experiment comes at the precisely right point in time. As usual I think people focus on the wrong things. We should strive to give people equal opportunities, but they are not and should not be equal in outcome. In fact, though most of us start as equal now, I have no doubt we will not end as equal. If high productivity people work and risk 10x more than the other people, it's common sense that they should also be rewarded 10x more. Indeed, I think this kind of inequality is a natural and even necessary effect of the free market. If you would want to cut this kind of inequality off, you would also have to cut startups, inventions and innovations with it, since this may be the greatest driver for that.

Here are two quotes with which I tend to agree:

Worry about skin in the game, not inequality. Worry about equality in opportunity not outcome. Worry about the powerful corporations taking over the system via lobbyists and blocking artisans. Worry about the class of privileged mandarins-WNSITG (with no skin in the game) taking over the system via "grandes ecoles"..." - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. - Unknown

NEM And The Altcoin Landscape

Unfortunately the altcoin landscape is currently plagued with cheap scams and elaborate pump and dump schemes along with a horde of impulsive people enjoying playing this game. However NEM has nothing to do with this landscape. While we may well go through a cambrian crypto-explosion phase, NEM seems to be already between the fittest and is only getting stronger every passing day.

I know things are more complex but for the sake of simplicity consider the following graph:

                                                                              The Altcoin Landscape

                                
                             Cheap Scams          Elaborate Scams             Clones                Low Innovation         Deep Innovation
                                      I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I

       Approx. Time:        1 Day                      1 Week                  1 Month               3 - 6 Months                1 Year

      Approx. Difficulty:      1/10                       2/10                       4/10                       6/10                       10/10

Approx. Value Created:    1 btc                      10 btc                     50 btc                    100 btc                    10000 btc



You must understand that while it would take 1 day to create a cheap scam, 1 month to clone a complex coin like Nxt, it would probably take at least about 1 year to invent a deeply innovative coin if you have all other necessary resources at your disposal¹(Nxt would be good example of that). Indeed, it would be both stupid and frustrating to confuse deep innovation with clones or low innovation and demand otherwise. NEM aims to bring deep innovation on multiple levels, so when the alpha version along with more interesting details will be disclosed, I think a lot of people will get very excited and some will even get nervous. Indeed this could be one of the most important developments of the altcoin world in 2014. But as you might understand, until the right moment comes, most of these details need to be kept secret for obvious strategic reasons.

Anyway, starting with our extremely competent and responsible dev team, our large, talented and diverse community, our fair distribution and equality experiment, I think you can all see that with each passing day NEM is evolving to be a whole different kind of creature, unlike anything you have seen it the altcoin world until now. But in order to see that, you must get out of the noisy and impulsive crowd and focus on the signal. If you look close enough I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

The Marshmallow Test And Financial Freedom

It seems there are two major impediments on the road to financial freedom. One of them is the economic and banking system which we are trying to solve at least partially through NEM. The other one is a bit more counter-intuitive and less thought of, it's ourselves(with all the decisions and wrong moves we make). If we want to achieve something we must shift from a consumer mindset to a producer mindset, and therein lies the key.

Looking at the marshmallow experiment which emphasizes self-control and delayed gratification as a better predictor of success than IQ, I can only wonder what all those people selling NEM now will think in a couple of months.

If you would have to choose between receiving 1.5 btc for your share now or delaying gratification to receive at least 10x that amount in a couple of months, what would you choose?

If self-control and delayed gratification are a good predictor of success, it seems quite obvious to me, impulsivity may be an even better predictor of failure.

So in the end, I can only say be wise and make smart decisions because although we all start with an equal opportunity, ultimately our decisions, contributions and productivity will decide our outcome, and trust me, as it looks, there won't be any equality in that.




References
¹ Through necessary resources I mean an enormous amount of brain power, time and energy to invest and conceptualize such a novel technology and an even greater amount of brainpower, time, energy and determination to transform things from the realm of ideas to reality. But it gets even more intriguing, since although these resources are necessary, in a lot of cases they may still not be sufficient.

Thanks xtester for an interesting post. In some circles NEM is accused of being "socialist" which is nothing further from the truth. NEM's equality concept is about equal opportunity not equal outcomes. Hence "we could support the the principle of equal opportunity to give all people a fair chance in life." That's the idea behind community distribution round.

[kaleruka]

Distribution will play a big effect.  Leveraging all these people is going to be powerful.  I think this coin will be top  5 within year of launch.

Top 5? I think it is the most sought-after COINS now It has the attention of more than any coin
At least I think so don't have to wait that long
 

[kaleruka]

i wish i bought a stake for my gf i didn't realize you were able to do that till it was too late.

Why is that? There will be a bright future
I wish you and your girlfriend can happiness
You are a good man
 

[lx001]

I regret not getting a 2nd stake too. I'm a horrible day trader and I could not even increase my stake on the exchange. So I wont even bother claiming a token.
but I'm happy to see prices rising again, I hope we got rid of all dumpers

[patmast3r]

I regret not getting a 2nd stake too. I'm a horrible day trader and I could not even increase my stake on the exchange. So I wont even bother claiming a token.
but I'm happy to see prices rising again, I hope we got rid of all dumpers

Doubtfull as some probably only bought assets to dump them when NEM hits an exchange.
This is normal and has to be expected.

[xtester]

Just made some minor additions and corrections.

Where please?

The same post, just look again nad you will notice.

[xtester]

NEM may be one of the most interesting equality experiments(opportunity) and paradoxically probably one of the most important case studies against it(outcome).

I think this experiment may attract a great deal of attention if we find a smart way to make ourselves heard. Imagine how much coverage we could be able to get because of superior technological innovation in technical circles but also how much more this could bring because of this intriguing experiment and case study for economic circles. A lot of real technical journals and economic journals would be interested in such a phenomena.

I am thinking of something we could write and a plan of how to do it.

sounds great! are there any economical statistics/infomation that can be gotten from nem due to proof of importance that has never been studied before? if we can collate and combine all the data from proof of importance and show how it can be used to study new areas of economics on a global scale, it could gain massive attention!

anything i can help you with?

Thanks kodtycoon, first I need to think about it but I will let you know.

I think POI will be very interesting and powerful when it will come out, though not much info is available at the moment.

[xtester]

NEM's Great Equality Experiment And The Marshmallow Test

What Equality Means?

The other day I found myself reflecting on NEM, what it is and what we all want to make of it. It seems there is a great discussion going on in the world regarding inequality and so NEM equality experiment comes at the precisely right point in time. As usual I think people focus on the wrong things. We should strive to give people equal opportunities, but they are not and should not be equal in outcome. In fact, though most of us start as equal now, I have no doubt we will not end as equal. If high productivity people work and risk 10x more than the other people, it's common sense that they should also be rewarded 10x more. Indeed, I think this kind of inequality is a natural and even necessary effect of the free market. If you would want to cut this kind of inequality off, you would also have to cut startups, inventions and innovations with it, since this may be the greatest driver for that.

Here are two quotes with which I tend to agree:

Worry about skin in the game, not inequality. Worry about equality in opportunity not outcome. Worry about the powerful corporations taking over the system via lobbyists and blocking artisans. Worry about the class of privileged mandarins-WNSITG (with no skin in the game) taking over the system via "grandes ecoles"..." - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. - Unknown

NEM And The Altcoin Landscape

Unfortunately the altcoin landscape is currently plagued with cheap scams and elaborate pump and dump schemes along with a horde of impulsive people enjoying playing this game. However NEM has nothing to do with this landscape. While we may well go through a cambrian crypto-explosion phase, NEM seems to be already between the fittest and is only getting stronger every passing day.

I know things are more complex but for the sake of simplicity consider the following graph:

                                                                              The Altcoin Landscape

                                
                             Cheap Scams          Elaborate Scams             Clones                Low Innovation         Deep Innovation
                                      I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I

       Approx. Time:        1 Day                      1 Week                  1 Month               3 - 6 Months                1 Year

      Approx. Difficulty:      1/10                       2/10                       4/10                       6/10                       10/10

Approx. Value Created:    1 btc                      10 btc                     50 btc                    100 btc                    10000 btc



You must understand that while it would take 1 day to create a cheap scam, 1 month to clone a complex coin like Nxt, it would probably take at least about 1 year to invent a deeply innovative coin if you have all other necessary resources at your disposal¹(Nxt would be good example of that). Indeed, it would be both stupid and frustrating to confuse deep innovation with clones or low innovation and demand otherwise. NEM aims to bring deep innovation on multiple levels, so when the alpha version along with more interesting details will be disclosed, I think a lot of people will get very excited and some will even get nervous. Indeed this could be one of the most important developments of the altcoin world in 2014. But as you might understand, until the right moment comes, most of these details need to be kept secret for obvious strategic reasons.

Anyway, starting with our extremely competent and responsible dev team, our large, talented and diverse community, our fair distribution and equality experiment, I think you can all see that with each passing day NEM is evolving to be a whole different kind of creature, unlike anything you have seen it the altcoin world until now. But in order to see that, you must get out of the noisy and impulsive crowd and focus on the signal. If you look close enough I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

The Marshmallow Test And Financial Freedom

It seems there are two major impediments on the road to financial freedom. One of them is the economic and banking system which we are trying to solve at least partially through NEM. The other one is a bit more counter-intuitive and less thought of, it's ourselves(with all the decisions and wrong moves we make). If we want to achieve something we must shift from a consumer mindset to a producer mindset, and therein lies the key.

Looking at the marshmallow experiment which emphasizes self-control and delayed gratification as a better predictor of success than IQ, I can only wonder what all those people selling NEM now will think in a couple of months.

If you would have to choose between receiving 1.5 btc for your share now or delaying gratification to receive at least 10x that amount in a couple of months, what would you choose?

If self-control and delayed gratification are a good predictor of success, it seems quite obvious to me, impulsivity may be an even better predictor of failure.

So in the end, I can only say be wise and make smart decisions because although we all start with an equal opportunity, ultimately our decisions, contributions and productivity will decide our outcome, and trust me, as it looks, there won't be any equality in that.




References
¹ Through necessary resources I mean an enormous amount of brain power, time and energy to invest and conceptualize such a novel technology and an even greater amount of brainpower, time, energy and determination to transform things from the realm of ideas to reality. But it gets even more intriguing, since although these resources are necessary, in a lot of cases they may still not be sufficient.

Thanks xtester for an interesting post. In some circles NEM is accused of being "socialist" which is nothing further from the truth. NEM's equality concept is about equal opportunity not equal outcomes. Hence "we could support the the principle of equal opportunity to give all people a fair chance in life." That's the idea behind community distribution round.

Totally agree with you, utopianfuture. Now people who think we are socialists can read the post above and understand what we mean when we speak about equality.

In addition to that I think the further NEM will advance, while there will be a lot who will love us, there will always be some people who will continually find something to accuse us of. In the end they will be amazed at our outcome, that's what we'll focus on, that's what will matter.

We should become a paradise for all productive, innovative and ingenuos people.

Btw are you acquainted with the work of nobel laureat in economics and probably the most important psychologist alive, Daniel Kahneman?

[jenea4pda]

NEM public IRC channel is now #nemcoin  ( freenode ).  I will be parking there when I am online. Consultation service is available for Nemsters who are in emotional distress.

It's really lovely idea, I like it!