[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[patmast3r]

Just spotted this article about NEM http://bitcoinist.net/nem-new-economy-movement/ which contains quite a few factual errors, especially the part about the development team. Someone should tell him to read the organization tab in NEM summary. There is a nice volume from the site to our website though. NEM is getting noticed !

I contacted him.

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[GreenDude]

Wow! all the tokens being bought.. about 4 left under 25k nxt only. And holding strong those levels.. despite the obvious attempts to push down to buy at lower prices.

[TaunSew]

Wow! all the tokens being bought.. about 4 left under 25k nxt only. And holding strong those levels.. despite the obvious attempts to push down to buy at lower prices.

There's only .8 left at 15.5K and then I'll jump way up.

It looks like all the weak hands got bought out

[jkoil]

The "randomness" is one characteristic, the other is the length. My passwords' randomness is enough due to certain things, which is used in the pw generation - which is not revealed here either  And length I certainly have enough.

Bottom line:  Look at top of this page (bitcointalk.org). The connection is encrypted. How does that encryption work? The encryption key is exchanged between your computer and BTT server using cryptography that relies on random number generator. Otherwise your BTT  password would go through internet (bouncing around dozens of servers) in plain text and could be easily stolen, along with your nem stake.

you already rely on CSPRNG to do everything online that is supposed to be secure. Nothing online is secure without CSPRNG.

Not a single thing.

Cryptocurrencies, decentralization, lower trust level ...
pw manager, centralization, higher trust level.      
(ok, ofc some centralization and trust is needed somewhere sometimes, but ...)

You already trust a lot of things -- for example your operating system. How do you know it's not sending your info to NSA?'

There is no such thing as zero trust.

With Lastpass encryption is done locally on your computer. They only get encrypted blob. Key is derived from thousands of hashes (PBKDF2) so even in very unlikely scenario their server is hacked brute force attack would still be very hard, as their server doesn't have encryption key.

It's a question of convenience and security and it's much easier to stay secure if a user is using password manager (online backup,  long random unique passwords for all sites, two factor authentication, auto fils and several other anti-key logger measures) .

"There is no such thing as zero trust."

That I was saying. There is needed trust, this online world requires it (now). But why unnecessarily increase the need of trust?
For the convenience? Yes, of course, but not for the most important issues, when it is decided e.g. about the security of 20% of your fortune. So much trust I do not have



Btw,  
BTT account vs NEM stake
What is the scenario, when someone's NEM stake is stolen?
I've understood that already some BTT accounts were hacked, or pw lost, but that was
solved happily.

Stealing scenario 1:
- hacker (or evil organization) gets your BTT account
- NEM stake is delivered
- hacker use your BTT account to inform a wrong target for the stake
- the stake is delivered to hacker's target, not to yours

- You realize that you have been robbed and inform the NEM organization
- What is the situation? Is the NEM stake totally lost?
  or can the original BTT user still prove that he would be the correct owner
  of the NEM stake (eg. by sending 1 NXT from his NXT account, which may be not hacked)

[jelin1984]

when the official blockchain of nem will be out?

[McDoxy]

NEM timeline:
    
Initial fundraising                               - 1/19/2014 -  2/17/2014 - first fundraising thread - second fundraising thread   
Waiting list open                                - 2/21/2014 - 4/10/2014 - waiting list thread
Public auditing of stakeholder list          - 3/2/2014 -  4/9/2014 - public auditing thread   
Waiting list invitation                          - 4/28/2014  - 5/9/2014   - invitation letter   
Final stakeholder list published             - 5/10/2014 - The final list   
Development contract published           - 5/25/2014  - Development contract   
NEMstake on asset exchange               - 5/30/2014 - Asset exchange thread
Open Alpha release                            - TBA
NEM stake public auction                    - After open alpha release
Open Beta release                             - estimate August
Official launch                                  - TBA
V1 blockchain completion                   - TBA   

[Eadeqa]

"There is no such thing as zero trust."

That I was saying. There is needed trust, this online world requires it (now). But why unnecessarily increase the need of trust?

It's not "unnecessarily" as it significantly increases security for most users by allowing them to use unique and strong passwords for every site and keeping passwords more secure on the hard drive as they are encrypted. It's far more likely that people who don't use password managers are either reusing passwords on more than one site, using weak passwords, keep them insecure on a notepad or email or forgetting/losing them sometime.  . All of which are more risky.  It's not "totally" blind trust.  Lastpass plugins are in javascript, so most of the source code can be easily checked. Encryption is done locally on the client machine. Plus it's a really company with physical address so they would be open to millions of dollars lawsuits if they were involved in any shenanigans.

[GreenDude]

Alpha being secretly tested? Nice! If i can try it please let me know. I'd like to help.

[patmast3r]

Alpha being secretly tested? Nice! If i can try it please let me know. I'd like to help.

It's not actually secret. It was alsways stated that the first phase of the alpha would be "internal".
There's so much debugging and fixing going on during this phase that it wouldn't make any sense to involve many people.
Also NCC is still not entirely finished so currently mostly NIS is being tested.

[michael8888]

it's a disappointing experience to see that against all expectations of thread members, the price of nemstakes (AE) is steadily decreasing.
I was one of the first buyers and now I have to suffer from my greed.

I am crypto -nonexpert and a poor pensioner and was just looking for someone who gives me comfort. Thanks to the community for your compassion.

I would say: take a longer perspective. NEM would not fail your trust. Be active to protect your investment as well

+1  you need to think long term.  it's just been a few days mate!

I think Mr Buffett's philosophy of long-term value investment is good.  @howi53

Maybe the NEM  has a wave of financial innovation directed at different investors who have different market power in the near future.

[jkoil]

"There is no such thing as zero trust."

That I was saying. There is needed trust, this online world requires it (now). But why unnecessarily increase the need of trust?

It's not "unnecessarily" as it significantly increases security for most users by allowing them to use unique and strong passwords for every site and keeping passwords more secure on the hard drive as they are encrypted. It's far more likely that people who don't use password managers are either reusing passwords on more than one site, using weak passwords, keep them insecure on a notepad or email or forgetting/losing them sometime.  . All of which are more risky.  It's not "totally" blind trust.  Lastpass plugins are in javascript, so most of the source code can be easily checked. Encryption is done locally on the client machine. Plus it's a really company with physical address so they would be open to millions of dollars lawsuits if they were involved in any shenanigans.

You have good reasons but tho I will not buy it - my reasons in the previous posts (incl. NXT forum)


PS:  a company in a bankruptcy cannot be sued  ( just generally speaking, not referring to Lastpass).
That has caused big harms and losts to many during the last 10 years.

[Eadeqa]

You have good reasons but tho I will not buy it - my reasons in the previous posts (incl. NXT forum)

PS:  a company in a bankruptcy cannot be sued  ( just generally speaking, not referring to Lastpass).
That has caused big harms and losts to many during the last 10 years.

You don't have  to "buy" it. You posted your opinion on a public forum and I intend to correct misinformation/bad opinion that can confuses people about best security practices on the internet. reducing their online security due to bad/easily avoidable mistakes.

[jkoil]

You have good reasons but tho I will not buy it - my reasons in the previous posts (incl. NXT forum)

PS:  a company in a bankruptcy cannot be sued  ( just generally speaking, not referring to Lastpass).
That has caused big harms and losts to many during the last 10 years.

You don't have  to "buy" it. You posted your opinion on a public forum and I intend to correct misinformation/bad opinion that can confuses people about best security practices on the internet.

no, "it" refers to your suggestion.

"best security practices on the internet" - that may be so, but as I wrote, the most important/valuable issues need not to be in a relation with internet/digital world ("do not put all your eggs in one basket").

"misinformation/bad opinion"    -  
 you have very very strong opinions, but you do not look, where you go...  you may think that it is enough to check the background

[utopianfuture]

NEM public IRC channel is now #nemcoin  ( freenode ).  I will be parking there when I am online. Consultation service is available for Nemsters who are in emotional distress.

[owon]

Hi devs!

I would like to prepare the paper-wallet voucher and will need NEM private keys and a correspondig NEM addresses for this. I am trying to find out how both will be created but will need your help as it seems that i have currently not all the infos i would need.
 
The development plan says: "ECDSA will be used to generate public / private key pairs"

Private key:
In Bitcoin the private key is a 32byte/256bit (random) value converted to hex. To create the wallet import format you add a 0x80 in front, double SHA-256 this, take first 4 byte as checksum, base58 encode (0x80 and privatekey + checksum) to get the final key in import format.

Questions:
Will NEM use the same logic to crate the WIF private key and will it as well use base58 or base32 to encode it?
What prefix will be added in front, 0x80 as well?

Public key:
Bitcoin keys use the secp256k1 where a public key is a 65 byte long value consisting of a leading 0x04 and X and Y coordinates of 32 bytes each.

Here is the code for bitcoin as it says more then words:

Code:

var curve = getSECCurveByName("secp256k1") //found in bitcoinjs-lib/src/jsbn/sec.js

//convert our random array or private key to a Big Integer
var privateKeyBN = BigInteger.fromByteArrayUnsigned(input) 

var curvePt = curve.getG().multiply(privateKeyBN)
var x = curvePt.getX().toBigInteger()
var y = curvePt.getY().toBigInteger()
var publicKeyBytes = integerToBytes(x,32) //integerToBytes is found in bitcoinjs-lib/src/ecdsa.js
publicKeyBytes = publicKeyBytes.concat(integerToBytes(y,32))
publicKeyBytes.unshift(0x04)
var publicKeyHex = Crypto.util.bytesToHex(publicKeyBytes)

The above code will give us the public key hex encoded for Bitcoin (uncompressed format).

Questions:
Will NEM use the same procedure to get the public key hex encoded?
Will there be a leading 0x04 as well?

After we have the public key in hex it is time to convert it into an human readable address, the initial development plan says:

1 Perform SHA-3 hashing on the public key
2 Perform RIPEMD-160 hashing on the result of #1
3 Add version byte in front of the RIPEMD-160 hash
4 Perform SHA-3 hashing on the result of #3
5 Perform SHA-3 hashing on the result of #4
6 Let the first four bytes of #5 be the address checksum
7 Concatenate #3 and #6
8 Base32-encode #7

Questions:
What value is the version byte of #3?
Shouldn't #4 be a SHA-256 hash? Just asking because the plan says "...NEM will use the SHA-3 hash of a SHA-256 hash instead of a double SHA-256 hash..."
Will NEM use standard base32 or custom chars?

I would be more than happy if you have some information or some code parts for me. It would be very helpful for the development of the paper-wallets.
Sorry, i don't want to disturb everybody with technical details here, if there is a dev around who is able to help please feel free to pm me insted of bore the forum with technical details.

Thanks for your help!

[utopianfuture]

@owon Jaguar or Gimre should help you. I have dropped a note.

[owon]

@utopianfuture  perfect, thank you!

[nzminer]

I just got 1 NEM stake on the asset exchange for around 15K of NXT.

Was this a good price, or will they drop further?
I was advised to wait 4 days before buying or make a bid around 15K, which i did.

I think its going to take off when it launches, pretty exciting, of course im still more invested in NXT.

[Momimaus]

I just got 1 NEM stake on the asset exchange for around 15K of NXT.

Was this a good price, or will they drop further?
I was advised to wait 4 days before buying or make a bid around 15K, which i did.

I think its going to take off when it launches, pretty exciting, of course im still more invested in NXT.

Nobody can tell you if the price will go up or down. But I can tell you that I bought a couple of stakes between 15k and 22k. So I think it is a very good price.
At the latest when the alpha comes out, you can´t get this prices anymore.

[BldSwtTrs]

Where should I go to use the NXT asset exchange?