[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[dzarmush]

Here it is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443313.0
Please vote.

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[Anotheranonlol]

As for anonymity, let's keep this bs away and not be paranoid. I'm sure 99% of NEM holders have Facebook accounts with real names, pictures, life plans and so on and they don't give a shit about anonymity. What will happen if everybody knows I own 1M Nem? FBI and CIA will come with questions or what?

After all we can make a poll: "will you be ok with giving a link to your Facebook profile to be sure that NEM stakes are shared equally?".

very easy to buy fb account in bulk, useless.

[dzarmush]

As for anonymity, let's keep this bs away and not be paranoid. I'm sure 99% of NEM holders have Facebook accounts with real names, pictures, life plans and so on and they don't give a shit about anonymity. What will happen if everybody knows I own 1M Nem? FBI and CIA will come with questions or what?

After all we can make a poll: "will you be ok with giving a link to your Facebook profile to be sure that NEM stakes are shared equally?".

very easy to buy fb account in bulk, useless.

It's really easy to see if it's fake or not.

[Xpedite]

I would really like people to focus on other things than this distribution discussion. I think you people are overestimating the amount of double accounts. I myself have created a bitcointalk account specifically for NEM. I bet most of the new accounts can be compared to my situation. I won't even bother trying to get a hold of an extra share.
Frankly I am tired of reading enless posts about this distribution being unfare. All that can be said has allready been said!

Rules have been laid out and are the same for everyone. Utopianfuture has allready emphasised several times that he will not change the rules anymore. Don't waste his time by forcing him to repeat himself!


Please stop the envy and put that energy in promoting this idea instead of braking it down.

[patmast3r]

I am one of those alleged sockaccounts. I registered specifically for getting into NEM.

So what ?

I never saw the need to register to this forum before. I can get trolled and read bs anywhere. NEM gave me the incentive to register so I did. Now you wan't to take away my stake because I haven't registered earlier ? You sir should have no stake because clearly you are in the Very Envy Movement.

Also this forum is freaking terrible....I knew why i didn't register earlier . I get that stupid 360 seconds warning all the time, even if I haven't postet in days. Same for the search only it's 90 seconds there.

[Sportfreund1488]

Oh? All of them have Facebook and CO?
I have not had NEVER, I hate it really. I do not even own a smartphone and for 4 years a Samsung phone where you can only make calls and SMS. That's enough for me!

Some think really that you have to join any shit. No real friends but for 1000 on Facebook ...

[Bitye West]

I am one of those alleged sockaccounts. I registered specifically for getting into NEM.

So what ?

I never saw the need to register to this forum before. I can get trolled and read bs anywhere. NEM gave me the incentive to register so I did. Now you wan't to take away my stake because I haven't registered earlier ? You sir should have no stake because clearly you are in the Very Envy Movement.

Also this forum is freaking terrible....I knew why i didn't register earlier . I get that stupid 360 seconds warning all the time, even if I haven't postet in days. Same for the search only it's 90 seconds there.

I think the 360 seconds is drastically cut down once you post a certain number of times or reach a certain activity level.

[patmast3r]

I am one of those alleged sockaccounts. I registered specifically for getting into NEM.

So what ?

I never saw the need to register to this forum before. I can get trolled and read bs anywhere. NEM gave me the incentive to register so I did. Now you wan't to take away my stake because I haven't registered earlier ? You sir should have no stake because clearly you are in the Very Envy Movement.

Also this forum is freaking terrible....I knew why i didn't register earlier . I get that stupid 360 seconds warning all the time, even if I haven't postet in days. Same for the search only it's 90 seconds there.

I think the 360 seconds is drastically cut down once you post a certain number of times or reach a certain activity level.

That's comforting to hear

[gramufibus]

I also am a nembie, i mean uh newbie...   I also dislike using social networks like facebook as a verifier.  There must be some other way.
Could there be any way to audit of accounts, or somehow do an action through the forums that would feret out any whales among the stake holders?  Perhaps offer a bounty for an account audit and someone could do it.  By this I imagine looking through all stakeholder accounts and check transactions a few layers down.  Sounds like a lot of work, and I have no envy if a few people have 10 stakes more than me.  500 to one of course would spoil the whole thing for everyone.

[Bitye West]

To gain a 1% share of NXT during ipo:
-Send .22btc from one account

To gain a 1% share of NEM during ipo:
- you would have to create 40 accounts
 - You have to be actively logged in to each new account for 4+ hours before you can post in the NEM thread.  This means 4x40 = 160 hours of login time
- send .4 btc to 1.4 btc OR promote NEM in 40 different places

It's obviously pretty time-consuming and more expensive for someone to gain a 1% share of NEM.

NEM ipo is one of the strictest and hardest to game that I've ever seen.  Most ipos open up investment with no restrictions and say "go nuts!"

- Some people gained a 4.5% share of NXT by sending 1btc at launch

- I highly doubt anyone will create the 180 accounts necessary to gain a 4.5% share of NEM

- If someone does take the insane amount of time, effort, and money to create 180 accounts and gain 4.5% of NEM...bravo!  They strongly believed in the concept and should be rewarded for their effort, investment, and risk-taking

[jl777]

I also am a nembie, i mean uh newbie...   I also dislike using social networks like facebook as a verifier.  There must be some other way.
Could there be any way to audit of accounts, or somehow do an action through the forums that would feret out any whales among the stake holders?  Perhaps offer a bounty for an account audit and someone could do it.  By this I imagine looking through all stakeholder accounts and check transactions a few layers down.  Sounds like a lot of work, and I have no envy if a few people have 10 stakes more than me.  500 to one of course would spoil the whole thing for everyone.

Have a set of preannounced times, well in advance. You need to send a PM from the registered acct at exactly that time +/- few seconds. Only 1 PM per IP address.

Max possible sockpuppets will equal the number of preannounced times - 1

If you are sharing IP address with someone, you would need to PM at different preannounced time.

Not perfect, but even a sockpuppet master (like you know who), would have a hard time arranging multiple IP addresses and coordinated simultaneous PM's

Probably a horrible mess on the receiving end, but it would remove a lot of doubt as to whether there are indeed thousands of unique NEM stakeholders.

James

[jl777]

To gain a 1% share of NXT during ipo:
-Send .22btc from one account

To gain a 1% share of NEM during ipo:
- you would have to create 40 accounts
 - You have to be actively logged in to each new account for 4+ hours before you can post in the NEM thread.  This means 4x40 = 160 hours of login time
- send .4 btc to 1.4 btc OR promote NEM in 40 different places

It's obviously pretty time-consuming and more expensive for someone to gain a 1% share of NEM.

NEM ipo is one of the strictest and hardest to game that I've ever seen.  Most ipos open up investment with no restrictions and say "go nuts!"

- Some people gained a 4.5% share of NXT by sending 1btc at launch

- I highly doubt anyone will create the 180 accounts necessary to gain a 4.5% share of NEM

- If someone does take the insane amount of time, effort, and money to create 180 accounts and gain 4.5% of NEM...bravo!  They strongly believed in the concept and should be rewarded for their effort, investment, and risk-taking

there are guys who can automatically create new accts, any number of them and control them very easily. For anybody that has this tech, less than 10 minutes work. Maybe they deserve disproportionate share, but it goes against the NEM philosophy I think

James

[Bitye West]

The distribution is already one of the fairest in the history of crypto as it is.  

Please name some cryptos with a more fair distribution than NEM.

If someone games the system with 40 accounts they would have to use unique donation addresses too:
time to create new wallet, transfer money into it, then transfer to NEM address would be about 15-20min per account

You would have to spend about 10 hours creating wallets and shuffling coins in order to get just 1% of NEM

The largest NEM holder is going to have to put in a lot of time, money, and effort to get something like 2% of NEM.

Please find another crypto where the largest holder has as little as 2% (this is the extreme scenario too, it's unlikely anyone created 80 accounts for this)


Let's please quit beating the distribution dead horse and get excited about the NEM project.

Positive NEM Vibes

[CoinWar]

Ask yourself, who stands to gain the most if NEM fails?   That's right... Nxt's early adopters and their vast army of stakeholders...

Dear Utopian, my friend, I believe you've just unwittingly started a war with the Nxt crowd without even realizing it.. But please also realize this.. All of us are behind you, 100%. *Thumb up* So please don't let those clowns distract you 

Just for the record, I'd like to be known to be the one who coined the term "Coin War."

This is getting so excitingggg.... *grabbed a seat* Let's roll!!!

[nemfreak]

I am also one of the people who created an account solely for the purpose of registering a stake. I am not a sock puppet I was required to register an account to claim a stake.
If you want to aquire more NEM buy them from an exchange when they launch. The laws of  free market economics dictate that the 4 billion coins will be worth exactly the amount of the initial total stake paid by the 4000 founders. Trading will then determine the market and price. Who knows the price may drop and you could aquire more NEM than by creating multiple accounts.

[CoinWar]

Ask yourself, who stands to gain the most if NEM fails?  That's right... Nxt's early adopters and their vast army of stakeholders...

Dear Utopian, my friend, I believe you've just unwittingly started a war with the Nxt crowd without even realizing it...

You must have NOT seen the first 20 pages of the original thread!?!?!    

Hey... I used to be on page 4 or 5 myself... deleted my post because of FrictionlessCoin  ...  only to come back and pay my share...

Which "Nxt crowd" are you referring to exactly?    

Nxt crowd -- people who have the most to gain by undermining the NEM project, namely the Nxt Stakeholders..

The person I was referring to was "Sockpuppet" master, the guy with 5 accounts.  Has it occurred to anyone other than me that idiotic move was meant to sabotage the project?  No one in their right mind (with the aim to gain unfair advantage) would have done it so obvious unless this person has ulterior motive other than accumulating stakes.

It simply doesn't make any sense to me that anyone who feels the distribution is unfair and see this project as a potential failure still whine and lambaste the project on a daily basis.. They would have left already.

Simply put, the people who complain the loudest and whine the most are also the people who have the most to gain if NEM fail, namely, the NXT crowd.

I rest my case..

[utopianfuture]

I have decided to have a test-run of Reddit advertising. If you don't know about it yet, you could advertise in Reddit by placing a few short sentences and a link in the front page of reddit. It would always appear like a normal link in the first line of the page. I think we should target bitcoin subreddit first which has a huge amount of traffics from veteran bitcoiners to casual users. Later we could target doge subreddit as well.

We need a good taglines and then when people click in the link they will go to our front page. I have two already.

1. A new kind of cryptocurrency. The first egalitarian coin. Registration to NEM is now open.

2. A funnier one. Envy no more. Join the new crypto movement. Registration to NEM is now open.

Any other suggestions?

It would take a few days for them to approve the advertisements. I will temporarily stop all "sharing about NEM" promotion so we can better gauge the effect of direct advertising.

[gimre]

   3.  ‘normal’ client - for users, that want to participate in the network, but don’t want to deal with DB setup. This one would keep blockchain in memory, BUT it would rely on “snapshots”
               a. snapshot would be created every X days (I was thinking about X=10)
               b. they would contain information about state (of accounts), but would drop all the history
               c. snapshots (for new clients) could be propagated in torrent-like fashion.

1.3 In principle I would agree, snapshots which get propagate are open for attacks and easy targets to fake snapshots

not to repeat myself, read what's below and think about it, I think it would be possible to do that (and do that securely):

Do I understand this correctly that the blockchain would only be stored on the "server version" of the client and not by every client ? I'm not sure that's a good idea. I don't know how people would feel about that and also doesn't that make the whole thing less secure especially in the beginning where fewer servers are running ? Say 10 servers are runnin initially. What if i whip up 20 VMs on my computer and make them servers....could I then not controll the network ? Not to mention that if the client doesn't hold the blockchain mim attackes could to a crapload of damage especially if coordinated well.

What's the point of having outdated snapshots in the client ? So the update from the DBs won't take as long ?

Nope, you don't need whole chain for security purposes.

Also 'normal' clients would also be part of the network.
They just wouldn't store whole history, only those snapshots + blockchain history since last snapshot till present.
Most people don't need whole history anyway (i.e. compare to btc, where download of whole the blockchain takes days if not weeks...)

When you would receive initial snapshot, there would be additional step of verification,
that the snapshot you've received is actually CORRECT one (there are number of ways this could be done),
to make sure the peers from which you've received it are not EVIL ones.

Sorry for uber long quote, but I've just noticed CfB in specific aspect has similar opinion to mine:

It sounds like we can't go much past 100TPS, thats 100KB of bandwidth. If a node every falls behind, how will it catch up?

This sounds like a fundamental limitation if the total TPS is limited by the slowest node. Or maybe only a few nodes can keep up with the 1000TPS and there is a way for slower nodes to catch up somehow? If BCNext solved this, it will be total NXT domination.

Lightweight clients don't need full blockchain. That's why we need public nodes that will become Service Providers in the future.

[jkoil]

As for anonymity, let's keep this bs away and not be paranoid. I'm sure 99% of NEM holders have Facebook accounts with real names, pictures, life plans and so on and they don't give a shit about anonymity. What will happen if everybody knows I own 1M Nem? FBI and CIA will come with questions or what?

After all we can make a poll: "will you be ok with giving a link to your Facebook profile to be sure that NEM stakes are shared equally?".

very easy to buy fb account in bulk, useless.

It's really easy to see if it's fake or not.

well, everyone has no fb

[Secondleo]

I'm glad the question of anonymity and multi accounts is raised here.

If not, I see serious problems with the egalitarian initial distribution.

I personally would like to have the requirements rather strict. Providing telefone numbers or ID scans.

However it is handeled. The stricter the better.

Whoever is not okay with having himself scrutinized. Too bad, no free money for you.