[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[utopianfuture]

then give me time please a simple installer! I can not do not know how to make a bath file/java to me is too much! in nxt there is not even a simple one click installer.
I have many coins and such a crap as with nxt I have never experienced before. ok then I can not enter halt or next must be a simple installer get as it also dodge or any other altcoin has
that annoys me really!

Make a reservation post in the registration thread and you can edit that post and add the transaction later.

No need to know how to create bat file since there is also one click-installer in the nextcoin forum as I recalled.

Here it is https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,1902.0.html ; I trust the developer of this installer but you should just send a small amount at the beginning.

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[gimre]

then give me time please a simple installer! I can not do not know how to make a bath file/java to me is too much! in nxt there is not even a simple one click installer.
I have many coins and such a crap as with nxt I have never experienced before. ok then I can not enter halt or next must be a simple installer get as it also dodge or any other altcoin has
that annoys me really!

There's light client for android, you could try that.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.nextcoin.nxtclient

PS If that's showstopper for you, why do you invest in NXT? o0

[Krombi666]

the good thing about an English forum is that I can brush up my English

but you were right the installer is really easy ... but the other not, unfortunately.

I've reserved myself and do my no deposit later and another one for my dog, I have a doge who has also earned a stake

[Krombi666]

then give me time please a simple installer! I can not do not know how to make a bath file/java to me is too much! in nxt there is not even a simple one click installer.
I have many coins and such a crap as with nxt I have never experienced before. ok then I can not enter halt or next must be a simple installer get as it also dodge or any other altcoin has
that annoys me really!

There's light client for android, you could try that.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.nextcoin.nxtclient

PS If that's showstopper for you, why do you invest in NXT? o0

I have not for each coin a wallet / client have? I always buy bitcoins on bitcoin.de send this to exchanges and buy myself because coins after election ... after loss and mood I'll sell them again Transfer the BTC to bitcoin.de and exchange into euro ...

But I am somewhat intrigued by the idea of Nxt and their course. Would like to also have a part to NEM, it would be something new for me.

[dave5555]

I am currently running 2 nodes for NXT.
If need be, I would be willing to set up a node for NEM when the time is ready.
Keep us updated on the status of running nodes for NEM network.

[Jaguar0625]

Is it possible to introduce a username + password option when creating/logging in an account aswell as a brute-force protection in order to make this crypto safer then the alternatives?

Debate!

Id like jaguar to at minimum to consider using a "username" and "password" field such that the password is salted with the username for key streching.  It will still require a very complex password though.

And it would be possible for multiple usernames to be in use. LOL

But consider this, if NEM were to go live with a wallet.dat type of setup, it would make it VERY attractive.  And if it were to get a wallet.dat type of setup before NXT did, then things would REALLY get interesting.

I envision the following upon opening the client:

User is presented with 2 options when clicking unlock, where the default is to utilize a wallet.dat setup and the user can open locally stored accounts or create a new one.  There is an another symbol on this unlock page that is an icon representing a brain, where the user can click it to go the brainwallet route if so desired. Obviously this option would need to come with all appropriate disclaimers

What do you guys think?  Im not the S/W dev, just the network dev but I think that would be ideal.

It sounds pretty cool.
The most awesome think would be being able to swtich between brain and wallet.dat.
Example: I'm going to work and in case I want to make a payment or alike in NEM I'd like to be able to access my wallet from any client so I put my wallet into the "brain".
Now I'm home again and I really don't want anyone to steal my NEM so I'll switch to a local wallet.dat file again and remove it from the "brain".

That would be so rad !
If we could introduce something like that people would throw their money at NEM like crazy

It may blow up the blockchain though. Maybe we don't have to hold it in a blockchain but make it possible to put it on a user hosted node. Like if I want to access my wallet from another client I would have to have my node running on the machine that holds my wallet.dat. That sounds doable.

Question: When you say a "wallet.dat type of setup", you're referring to how bitcoin addresses work (where the private keys are stored on the user's local machine), right?

Can't you emulate a "brain" with a wallet file? For example, with BTC, using blockchain.info, you could import a wallet (so its in the "brain") and then later export (so its out of the "brain").

Am I missing something?

(My current thinking is bitcoin like addresses with a wallet.dat file, so I'm just trying to  gauge the sentiment for this vs "brain" wallets)

[l4p7]

how often is this updated https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdDZ0amZpM00wQXhrR2lJM3pCOGRhNFE#gid=0 ? I am not on there dispite my contribution:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4886653#msg4886653
Thanks in advance!

[opticalcarrier]

Question: When you say a "wallet.dat type of setup", you're referring to how bitcoin addresses work (where the private keys are stored on the user's local machine), right?

Can't you emulate a "brain" with a wallet file? For example, with BTC, using blockchain.info, you could import a wallet (so its in the "brain") and then later export (so its out of the "brain").

Am I missing something?

(My current thinking is bitcoin like addresses with a wallet.dat file, so I'm just trying to  gauge the sentiment for this vs "brain" wallets)

yes, it could be as simple as a flat text-formatted file named wallet.dat that just contains a random string of 100 characters that is the passphrase for an account.  A client can then open up any or multiple accounts by reading that file.  In this case we are emulating how bitcoin-qt's unencrypted wallet.dat works, but theres nothing from keeping similar encryption done on the file.

or instead of a text file, it could be binary format, where instead of 100 character passphrase, its 256 bits of data representing the private key.  In this case the client will not perform the first sha256 hash that it normally runs against the passphrase to obtain the private key.

The reverse may also be true, where in a custom bitcoin client you could use a single passphrase to represent a bitcoin account; not completely sure yet though - it would depend on the relationship between public/private keys that bitcoin implements.

Edit to add:  yes a 100% brainwallet for bitcoin would be possible, as with bitcoin the public key is derived from the private key (just as it is with NXT)

[gramufibus]

I think what they mean is they want  to be able to withdraw their nem from the network(like bitcoin), unloading it from the brain wallet.  It seems the easiest way to do that would to have two accounts,  a brainwallet account and a local offline account. 
This feature would have to be implemented from scratch wouldn't it?  I don't think nxt has that functionality built in.
I see the way nxt works now as a feature really. 
What I'd like to see added is this.  Two step authentication would be great. 
The two field solution for passwords sounds cool.  When I think about it that way however, it becomes clear that it's kind of illusionary security.  If one needs to simply enter account then passphrase,  You can think of the Tab key to flip text fields as just another keystroke,  and one that is guaranteed.  So from a brute forcing perspective, it's possibly less secure than the existing system.

[opticalcarrier]

...If one needs to simply enter account then passphrase,  You can think of the Tab key to flip text fields as just another keystroke,  and one that is guaranteed.  So from a brute forcing perspective, it's possibly less secure than the existing system.

it wouldnt work that way - you wouldnt know what that account# was before you tried to create it.  when I referred to 2 fields being used to create an account, with the second being the passphrase, the first would just be a plaintext whatever you wanted to use.

then both fields would be used (key-stretching) to generate the private/public/acct numbers.

but the more I think about this, the less I like it.  One of the things I remember from my Human/Computer Interaction class at university is that this probably too closely resembles the standard username/password setup, which people assume as "online"  Where with blockchains, all cracking is offline, thus the need for much more secure passphrases.

So IMO we shouldnt go the key stretching route.  Go with a wallet.dat setup for normal users.  Power users can click on the brain icon and enter in their own high-strength passphrase after being warned of the importance of a truly high-powered passphrase.

[patmast3r]

Go with a wallet.dat setup for normal users.  Power users can click on the brain icon and enter in their own high-strength passphrase after being warned of the importance of a truly high-powered passphrase.

This sounds pretty similar to what Ripple does but better.
When you create a Ripple wallet you can choose the store it at Payward (brain) or only in your local browser (wallet.dat). What makes this worse than a real wallet.dat i.e. a local file is that as soon as you clear the browsers cache your wallet is gone

My ideal wallet would  be both a file and a brainwallet but the brain functionality should be something i can turn on and off as needed.

Maybe this makes it more clear:

If I look at NXT right now there is only a brainwallet and I can't store it locally. If I wan't to forge I need to have my node running all the time.
What If I could store my wallet locally but it would also be accessible from other clients, as long as my node is running ? That way you would have an offline wallet, but you could make it accessible remotly if you need it to by runing your own node.

The client that I wan't to access my wallet from would then have to have my "home node" in his peers but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Xpedite]

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is  exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes    This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM  )
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!


Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

[Mr. Socko]

I'm just wondering if the ticker symbol of the coin should be tweaked a bit. I saw this mentioned in another thread... I think the name of the currency might sound better if it was "nemo" coin.

New Economy MOvement

No Envy MOvement

It still works and sounds better.

A catchy, easy to pronounce name can make a big difference and "nemo" is a lot better sounding when saying the name of the currency than "Nem" ... just an observation.  Hey I'll give you 100 NEMs or Hey I'll give you 100 NEMOS... which will catch on faster?

Yeah that name is used in an animated movie so I don't know if that would be helpful or harmful but that really wasn't the intention.  Plus NXT is doing fairly well and it doesn't have a fancy sounding currency name either, so I might just be splitting hairs here. The important thing is the underlying technology and distribution system.

[gimre]

or instead of a text file, it could be binary format, where instead of 100 character passphrase, its 256 bits of data representing the private key.  In this case the client will not perform the first sha256 hash that it normally runs against the passphrase to obtain the private key.

If I could upvote this 1000 times, I would.

NXT API should be changed, it should be client's resposibility, to secure your wallet.

Also IMHO this would actually be MORE secure than what it is now, as the secret KEYS could be TRULY* random.

*-now they are output of sha, so secret key is as secure as your pass

[patmast3r]

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is  exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes    This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM  )
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!


Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

As long as the transparent forging isn't affected I think we can think about doing things differently. I always thought about taking the "age" of coins into account like I think peercoin does.

[gimre]

I'm just wondering if the ticker symbol of the coin should be tweaked a bit. I saw this mentioned in another thread... I think the name of the currency might sound better if it was "nemo" coin.

New Economy MOvement

No Envy MOvement

It still works and sounds better.

yeah, and sound like kids toy...

[HalfEvil]

Hey, about the bounties, I posted a logo/currency symbol in the registration thread (post 397)

[ThomasZ80]

I like the name suggestion NEMO.

NEMO +1

[CrazyEyes]

NEMO is pretty.

[lx001]

Do they accept Paypal? PM'd them and no answer