[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[dave5555]

We have a no reserve rule to combat fraudsters.

I am not trying to make a reserve spot, I want to invest the NXT now before it goes up.  I just want to make sure it's ok with you that I am using this account to invest the NXT on behalf of someone else.

sorry we stick by 1 account/ 1 share.

So by what I understand: Make NXT account for friend > send NXT there > make another bitcointalk account > invest NXT and post on new account.

I am not trying to be a "fraudster".   I am invested in NXT already and am running 2 nodes for NXT.  I am spreading word about NEM but most of the people I know are not very cryptocurrency knowledgeable but are very interested in crypto since I've been mentioning it to them.
I like the idea of fair, that's how I run my life in real world.  I am a very balanced and fair person.
I have an account in nextcoin.org under LemonAndFries where I make most of my posts if you'd like to check.

[patmast3r]

Should we maybe have a thread dedicated to problems and complaints about stake registration ?
I feel like important and interesting discussion in this thread drown in questions regading stakes and stuff.

Just a suggestion.

[jkoil]

....

My name has also disappered from the stake holder list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdDZ0amZpM00wQXhrR2lJM3pCOGRhNFE#gid=1

It has been there many days,
since 1 - 2 days after these:

Sent 250 NXT
TX : ...


Edit:  ...     11152111273892066130

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=11152111273892066130

And where it was came from:
7773992198041886861

Thanks

What has happened?

[utopianfuture]

The new stake complain thread is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=450200.0.

I will be manning that thread and answering questions. Any stake question should be directed there to keep this thread on update/ development related.

Thanks

UP

[utopianfuture]

We have a no reserve rule to combat fraudsters.

I am not trying to make a reserve spot, I want to invest the NXT now before it goes up.  I just want to make sure it's ok with you that I am using this account to invest the NXT on behalf of someone else.

sorry we stick by 1 account/ 1 share.

So by what I understand: Make NXT account for friend > send NXT there > make another bitcointalk account > invest NXT and post on new account.

I am not trying to be a "fraudster".   I am invested in NXT already and am running 2 nodes for NXT.  I am spreading word about NEM but most of the people I know are not very cryptocurrency knowledgeable but are very interested in crypto since I've been mentioning it to them.
I like the idea of fair, that's how I run my life in real world.  I am a very balanced and fair person.
I have an account in nextcoin.org under LemonAndFries where I make most of my posts if you'd like to check.

Yes that should be the way because your friend represents the new account. So make a new account for him and reserve a stake. you can send NXT from the same address as well (maximum 2 stake per address).

1 NEM share would have > 1 million NEM. So there are many to share. No need to buy a lot of stakes. Thanks for supporting NEM.

[opticalcarrier]

Could there be a small "lucky" part where a part of the transaction fee goes into a pot and once in a while the pot is given to some random wallet?

I suggested something like this for NXT but it was ignored.  It kind of like a bonus lottery...


I would like to implement such that block forgers cannot include their own transactions for free; where if they want to send transactions in a block they forge, then they perform the following:

1) determine the lowest fee paid for a transaction in the previous block generated.  Trasactions belonging the block forger that he wants to include in the block must have at lease this fee assigned, or higher if selected.

2) use a defined algorithm (TBD) to select an account out of the previous 10 blocks that paid fees for transactions.  multiple transactions with 1 account doesnt give you multiple chances, so if you had just 1 transaction you have equal chance of being selected as someone with 1000

3) the block forger takes the number of transaction of his own that he wants to include in the block and then multiplies by the figure obtained in #1 (or a higher fee than that if he desires, but at least that amount), and includes a transaction sending that amount of NXT to the account selected in #2.  all his own transactions in this block must set the fee to value obtained in #1 (or higher if desired), as those will be returned to him if he does indeed forge that block.  So as long as the math works out between these steps, the network will validate the block he forges.

4) if your own account is selected to send the fees to then the algorithm chooses a different account.  This is to reduce the chance that exchanges with their high volume get their own free fees

This structure effictively removes fee forging and makes a cool/fun little bonus lottery that encourages people to use transactions since then they become eligible for the lottery.

[Xpedite]

Imho it'd be better to keep the systems as is regarding distribution of coins i.e. finite number and fees. An infinite number of coins will create inflation like crazy and people probably won't buy into it in the first place.
Obviously we then need the fees to reward people for forging.

POS/PON in general i think are great ideas. I think it'll be important to find the right balance between POS and PON. E.g. how long will it take me to forge a block with little or no NEM but a node that is running 24/7 ?
I think this could also eliminate the complaints from people that the rich get ritcher with the current Nxt - POS implementation.

Just to through out numbers to start a discussion - I think 40 % POS / 60 % PON could be fair. I think this would reflect that you're helping NEM more by running a node than hoarding your coins.

Thoughts ?

I agree with you therefore i have written that the concept should be partially adapted
as the number of coins in NEM is finite. Part of the forging fee should go to nodes that are securing the netowrk using PON.
The best POS / PON ratio yet shuld be found.

+1 to your advice 40 % POS / 60 % PON or something in that range to avoid hoarding.

+1 for a POS/PON combination, however the distribution between them is a difficult decision.
I have been thinking alot about the forging but personally I can't make up my mind about my opinion.
The more POS , the more people will want to hold on to their share which in its turn will provide stability and better market price. (ref stability NXT!)
On the other hand, we need to make it attractive for everyone in order to easily attract new people.

Obviously the PON is also a good idea to make the network stable and to make a statement about equality...

Hmm , difficult

[Xpedite]

Could there be a small "lucky" part where a part of the transaction fee goes into a pot and once in a while the pot is given to some random wallet?

I suggested something like this for NXT but it was ignored.  It kind of like a bonus lottery...


I would like to implement such that block forgers cannot include their own transactions for free; where if they want to send transactions in a block they forge, then they perform the following:

1) determine the lowest fee paid for a transaction in the previous block generated.  Trasactions belonging the block forger that he wants to include in the block must have at lease this fee assigned, or higher if selected.

2) use a defined algorithm (TBD) to select an account out of the previous 10 blocks that paid fees for transactions.  multiple transactions with 1 account doesnt give you multiple chances, so if you had just 1 transaction you have equal chance of being selected as someone with 1000

3) the block forger takes the number of transaction of his own that he wants to include in the block and then multiplies by the figure obtained in #1 (or a higher fee than that if he desires, but at least that amount), and includes a transaction sending that amount of NXT to the account selected in #2.  all his own transactions in this block must set the fee to value obtained in #1 (or higher if desired), as those will be returned to him if he does indeed forge that block.  So as long as the math works out between these steps, the network will validate the block he forges.

4) if your own account is selected to send the fees to then the algorithm chooses a different account.  This is to reduce the chance that exchanges with their high volume get their own free fees

This structure effictively removes fee forging and makes a cool/fun little bonus lottery that encourages people to use transactions since then they become eligible for the lottery.

I had to analyse this a little but looks like a very nice system indeed !

[erkki12]

Imho it'd be better to keep the systems as is regarding distribution of coins i.e. finite number and fees. An infinite number of coins will create inflation like crazy and people probably won't buy into it in the first place.
Obviously we then need the fees to reward people for forging.

POS/PON in general i think are great ideas. I think it'll be important to find the right balance between POS and PON. E.g. how long will it take me to forge a block with little or no NEM but a node that is running 24/7 ?
I think this could also eliminate the complaints from people that the rich get ritcher with the current Nxt - POS implementation.

Just to through out numbers to start a discussion - I think 40 % POS / 60 % PON could be fair. I think this would reflect that you're helping NEM more by running a node than hoarding your coins.

Thoughts ?

I agree with you therefore i have written that the concept should be partially adapted
as the number of coins in NEM is finite. Part of the forging fee should go to nodes that are securing the netowrk using PON.
The best POS / PON ratio yet shuld be found.

+1 to your advice 40 % POS / 60 % PON or something in that range to avoid hoarding.

+1 for 40/60

Could there be a small "lucky" part where a part of the transaction fee goes into a pot and once in a while the pot is given to some random wallet?

I suggested something like this for NXT but it was ignored.  It kind of like a bonus lottery...


I would like to implement such that block forgers cannot include their own transactions for free; where if they want to send transactions in a block they forge, then they perform the following:

1) determine the lowest fee paid for a transaction in the previous block generated.  Trasactions belonging the block forger that he wants to include in the block must have at lease this fee assigned, or higher if selected.

2) use a defined algorithm (TBD) to select an account out of the previous 10 blocks that paid fees for transactions.  multiple transactions with 1 account doesnt give you multiple chances, so if you had just 1 transaction you have equal chance of being selected as someone with 1000

3) the block forger takes the number of transaction of his own that he wants to include in the block and then multiplies by the figure obtained in #1 (or a higher fee than that if he desires, but at least that amount), and includes a transaction sending that amount of NXT to the account selected in #2.  all his own transactions in this block must set the fee to value obtained in #1 (or higher if desired), as those will be returned to him if he does indeed forge that block.  So as long as the math works out between these steps, the network will validate the block he forges.

4) if your own account is selected to send the fees to then the algorithm chooses a different account.  This is to reduce the chance that exchanges with their high volume get their own free fees

This structure effictively removes fee forging and makes a cool/fun little bonus lottery that encourages people to use transactions since then they become eligible for the lottery.

I support also this mechanism, so +1 for this too!

[freigeist]

I had to analyse this a little but looks like a very nice system indeed !

Yes and if hi puts it into graphical diagram
using arrows and blocks it will be understandable by anyone

[DaFockBro]

How's the progress on the NEM code?

Anything written yet, or are we still just marketing?

[norti]

Really cool, but can we get a "flat" version. Like something that would feel at home in iOS. Also, can you make a version without the coin, but just the 8 lines representing NEM? Actually, I was sketching logos last night and came up with the same idea as you, representing NEM with the 8 lines. I think it is the way to go for a logo.

Ok, flattened it quite a bit more and also aligned the characters:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/12325050555_d165590db1_n.jpg

I think the variety for this design is now big enough as a proposal.

[Zoella]

I'm a fan of the hybrid forging ideas being thrown out. While POS may lead to price stability, wouldn't it also be a deterrent to actually spending/using NEM as a currency?

[Zoella]

Really cool, but can we get a "flat" version. Like something that would feel at home in iOS. Also, can you make a version without the coin, but just the 8 lines representing NEM? Actually, I was sketching logos last night and came up with the same idea as you, representing NEM with the 8 lines. I think it is the way to go for a logo.

Ok, flattened it quite a bit more and also aligned the characters:



I think the variety for this design is now big enough as a proposal.

I much prefer the "E" being the same height now, but personally, I don't like how the rim reminds of a casino chip.

[erkki12]

IMO we should abandon any round coinlike logos.. Anyone else think the same?

[TauMuon]

IMO we should abandon any round coinlike logos.. Anyone else think the same?

I think a coin image is essential, otherwise it may not be obvious to newcomers that the largest use of NEM is as a currency.

[Zoella]

IMO we should abandon any round coinlike logos.. Anyone else think the same?

I think a coin image is essential, otherwise it may not be obvious to newcomers that the largest use of NEM is as a currency.

I'm in agreement with this. If the goal of the crypto is to gain mass traction with the population as an actual currency or economic tool, it needs to be relatable to those with no cryptocurrency knowledge. I think a lot of the branding/marketing going on here is not taking this into consideration. If it is just another alt, than continue on with the current themes.

[norti]

I much prefer the "E" being the same height now, but personally, I don't like how the rim reminds of a casino chip.

Thanks for your honest feedback. I think I got stuck a bit on some of the elements in that design.

Here are my last two attempts to play a bit with the basic idea:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5529/12326043923_e0cfdcd78e_n.jpghttp://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/12326457704_4d3ff2e2e8_n.jpg

As mentioned, all proposals are available on this flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/116462858@N08/

I will quit working on these for now in order to leave room for some other ideas from other people.

[utopianfuture]

I much prefer the "E" being the same height now, but personally, I don't like how the rim reminds of a casino chip.

Thanks for your honest feedback. I think I got stuck a bit on some of the elements in that design.

Here are my last two attempts to play a bit with the basic idea:


As mentioned, all proposals are available on this flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/116462858@N08/

I will quit working on these for now in order to leave room for some other ideas from other people.

I like this new modern look more than the old ones. Will put them in my flickz.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/115246188@N06/

[therealbigcoin]

I would preffer a coin with an image inside like this: