[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[miramare]

I think nem gains more and more interests now.  I'm happy aboutn the great progress NEM have made. Thanks for you great effort.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person.  >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone.  I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes.    I'm shocked by this news.   I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM.  If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

I know that it's not easy to prevent multibuyin. However, some effort must be taken. e.g. check the transcation history.  you can see :
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6635869272840226493
And of course, people can buy with their multi NXT accounts.
And also need check the brand new IDs with same IPs.

About this account http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1

you should thank him because He is actually donating a lot to NEM becasue

"Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation"

we did not have time to check everything thoroughly yet but Counter sockpuppet measure will apply in this case.

You need notice that some "clever" guy registered a lot of new BTT accounts and bought stake for each acc using different NXT acc ID. It's easy.   Those acc are all in the staker list.

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[utopianfuture]

Ad campaign update - the first reddit ad at dogecoin subreddit is almost over. And here is a summary

date      impressions   clicks    click-through (%)   
TOTAL *   32,457            604    1.861%

We got more than 600 click from Doge subreddit to our front page. I got a few people asking to pay buy Dogecoin and Litecoin and the registration rate does not seem to slow down at all. So it has to work, right

Anyway I extended the Doge-ad for at least 2 days or until click-through rate falls off. At the same time, an ad on reddit front page "Proof of Stake and a Fair Start. The first egalitarian cryptocurrency. Join NEM to change the world" will start on 2/8. The reason I put it in a front page instead of a crypto-sub-reddit is to raise the awareness of NEM and crypto currency in general. Would be interesting to see what is the click-though percentage though.

The fund raising is running faster than I expected so we might already close shop when the Bitcoin subreddit ad is online on 2/28.

[highscore]

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

[utopianfuture]

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

Well we have a marketing and referral campaign to attract new users. I made Paypal gateway especially for that as well. Veteran attitude does not suit well with NEM.

And it is already said people can buy stakes for your loved ones/ friends.

[utopianfuture]

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

You have to watch your words as well. I certainly don't consider people sending real money to NEM "fraudsters".

[patmast3r]

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

[utopianfuture]

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudsters and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

[patmast3r]

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudster and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

yeah i guess you could say that.
To me their both fraudsters as thy are trying to claim more stakes than is allowed for one person.

I think I found another one:

He send 0.0551 BTC to a load of adresses and then bought a stake with each of those:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Ae6YxNMeJWtaLCSzQQe7Pqfb2MFRVbHH2 (sending the 0.0551)

The first 4 (which arent the only ones) which all were used to buy stakes:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EauPVg35rFLScbpEujFCgvJHwoGzBBUhm
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19ukVnz1DNfHFAwYwKU9hkTb6iYaESUFhA
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19qBCvmyhLVVhRTjdnjZeDrMMRM13HTQCz
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Cuoz1pPdG7bRxMf3cnb1su8jtvDpLJfg1

Looking at this I'm a little worried that we might have more multi-accs than expected.

He seems to have bought 20 - 30 stakes (How much NXT did you put out to find such huge multi-accs ?! ).

[highscore]

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudster and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

okeey

[highscore]

We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

return for what? let it be your fund
edit: remuneration for search "multi-acc-ter"

[utopianfuture]

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudster and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

yeah i guess you could say that.
To me their both fraudsters as thy are trying to claim more stakes than is allowed for one person.

I think I found another one:

He send 0.0551 BTC to a load of adresses and then bought a stake with each of those:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Ae6YxNMeJWtaLCSzQQe7Pqfb2MFRVbHH2 (sending the 0.0551)

The first 4 (which arent the only ones) which all were used to buy stakes:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EauPVg35rFLScbpEujFCgvJHwoGzBBUhm
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19ukVnz1DNfHFAwYwKU9hkTb6iYaESUFhA
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19qBCvmyhLVVhRTjdnjZeDrMMRM13HTQCz
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Cuoz1pPdG7bRxMf3cnb1su8jtvDpLJfg1

Looking at this I'm a little worried that we might have more multi-accs than expected.

Our goal is equal shares to all (accounts). And while I try to spread NEM widely and evenly, I don't really count real people in a forum or internet. As far as I understand I converse with patmast3r as one unique account. But it is possible that highscore is the mastermind behind patmast3r  or even the same person with multiple personality.
Don't go that route because it would be too confusing.

The 1 account/ 1 stake rule is established to cause hassles for people to register many stakes. Anti-sock puppet measure is there for that purpose as well. And as far as I concern people can  make many accounts as they want if they are willing to go though these hassles.
Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

[utopianfuture]

We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

return for what? let it be your fund
edit: remuneration for search "multi-acc-ter"

They send money in and if we don't take them then we send them back. Kooream has been working on some multi-accter cases for a while but I expect it is a community effort. The search will be as thorough as the community is willing to go

[patmast3r]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

[utopianfuture]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

Take a note of these cases as we will use that in a public auditing after the fund raising is over. But I expect the auditing is the community's effort not mine - we can go as far as the community wants to go. After all the development fund belongs to NEM's community and to be used by the developers/ community to build the crypto we love.

[patmast3r]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

Take a note of these cases as we will use that in a public auditing after the fund raising is over. But I expect the auditing is the community's effort not mine - we can go as far as the community wants to go. After all the development fund belongs to NEM's community and to be used by the developers/ community to build the crypto we love.

Well I'm willing to search that blockchain for hours. If we find a handfull other people that are willing to as well we should find most of the bigger multi accs.

[highscore]

We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

return for what? let it be your fund
edit: remuneration for search "multi-acc-ter"

They send money in and if we don't take them then we send them back. Kooream has been working on some multi-accter cases for a while but I expect it is a community effort. The search will be as thorough as the community is willing to go

I can't understand WHY? That statement you encourage people to try to fool you, because the money can return, so people use multi acc.
PS I apologize if something I do not understand. My English is not perfect

[utopianfuture]

We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

return for what? let it be your fund
edit: remuneration for search "multi-acc-ter"

They send money in and if we don't take them then we send them back. Kooream has been working on some multi-accter cases for a while but I expect it is a community effort. The search will be as thorough as the community is willing to go

I can't understand WHY? That statement you encourage people to try to fool you, because the money can return, so people use multi acc.
PS I apologize if something I do not understand. My English is not perfect

Let's make a new update to the rule introducing Counter-multi-accouter measure and apply it after page 50. Change refund by donation instead.

[utopianfuture]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

Take a note of these cases as we will use that in a public auditing after the fund raising is over. But I expect the auditing is the community's effort not mine - we can go as far as the community wants to go. After all the development fund belongs to NEM's community and to be used by the developers/ community to build the crypto we love.

Well I'm willing to search that blockchain for hours. If we find a handfull other people that are willing to as well we should find most of the bigger multi accs.

Kooream have been doing it for a few days. There are two others PM-ing me with solid cases as well. Everyone can do it given that the hashes, account names and the blockchain are public information. I would like to gather all the cases and make them public after the fundraising is over in a public auditing period. I would use mindmap to link wallet addresses/ account names together in visually attractive form (that's my suggestions)

[highscore]

Let's make a new update to the rule introducing Counter-multi-accouter measure and apply it after page 50. Change refund by donation instead.

It's your business. But I think it would be right.

[ashapasa]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.