[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[utopianfuture]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.

Well I have a dream that NEM would be a huge unexpected success But to do that I'd like to see NEM having more than just a provincial appeal. Otherwise we would face the same problem NXT facing right now; a new thing comes up and new people move there because generally people don't want to work so that some rich guys become richer. That type of thing happens in the open-source culture and we also have that issue unless we can build a huge-and inclusive user base right from the start.

It is still to be seen if this is the right strategy but as i see it it is only way to differentiate ourself socially. Technically we would be a super block-chain thanks to our developers, but we can't under-estimate the social aspect in this game.       

[patmast3r]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.

It's not about the newbies - I'm one myself. It's about people that try to get more than 2 stakes. It's supposed to be even  - everyone should get the same amount of NEM.

[patmast3r]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

Take a note of these cases as we will use that in a public auditing after the fund raising is over. But I expect the auditing is the community's effort not mine - we can go as far as the community wants to go. After all the development fund belongs to NEM's community and to be used by the developers/ community to build the crypto we love.

Well I'm willing to search that blockchain for hours. If we find a handfull other people that are willing to as well we should find most of the bigger multi accs.

Kooream have been doing it for a few days. There are two others PM-ing me with solid cases as well. Everyone can do it given that the hashes, account names and the blockchain are public information. I would like to gather all the cases and make them public after the fundraising is over in a public auditing period. I would use mindmap to link wallet addresses/ account names together in visually attractive form (that's my suggestions)

Alright do you need me to PM you those two cases again as well or only the ones I find from now on ?

[utopianfuture]

Later taint analyses will be used to reduce further the amount of big NEM stake holders.
These are best efforts to spread NEM widely and evenly to a huge user base and it is already better than the best effort to date: counter-party protocol.

Well then plz consider my last to posts in you taint analysis as i think it's a big fish among the multiaccs.

Take a note of these cases as we will use that in a public auditing after the fund raising is over. But I expect the auditing is the community's effort not mine - we can go as far as the community wants to go. After all the development fund belongs to NEM's community and to be used by the developers/ community to build the crypto we love.

Well I'm willing to search that blockchain for hours. If we find a handfull other people that are willing to as well we should find most of the bigger multi accs.

Kooream have been doing it for a few days. There are two others PM-ing me with solid cases as well. Everyone can do it given that the hashes, account names and the blockchain are public information. I would like to gather all the cases and make them public after the fundraising is over in a public auditing period. I would use mindmap to link wallet addresses/ account names together in visually attractive form (that's my suggestions)

Alright do you need me to PM you those two cases again as well or only the ones I find from now on ?

Let's make all public after the fund raising is over. The records are still there, aren't they. But I will only refund big multi- accounter >10 stakes.

[patmast3r]

I think we can scratch the scale in the logo

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=451306.0

[utopianfuture]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.

It's not about the newbies - I'm one myself. It's about people that try to get more than 2 stakes. It's supposed to be even  - everyone should get the same amount of NEM.

I think i have to do a bit of hype containment here because it could be bad publicity to NEM that we say we do things we cannot back up. It is not my goal that everyone should get the same amount of NEM. Several main developers would likely to get more than 10 dev stakes so it is apparently contradictory to say we promote "everyone has the same stakes". NEM's main goal on distribution front is to spread NEM as widely and equally as possible and to build a huge user base from the start. that's what i mean when i wrote "NEM symbolizes a great sense of fairness and egalitarianism".  To do that we have a couple of measures:

1. 1 account/ 1 stake rule
2. checking sending address aka counter sockpuppet measure
3. taint analyses to find big multi-accters

The equal shares to all (account) is a nice by product slogan of rule 1 but don't confuse that with we try to distribute NEM to every single person equally. I am still proud of what we have in distribution front as it is unparalleled so far compared to other cryptos.

If someone wants to build a more extreme version of equality coin, I would welcome that too. It is not the envy game we are playing here 

No envy - NEM goes forward.
 

[utopianfuture]

I think we can scratch the scale in the logo

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=451306.0

P-O-W coin. No care. We are building proof-of-stake coin network.

[Stadtfeger]

I think nem gains more and more interests now.  I'm happy aboutn the great progress NEM have made. Thanks for you great effort.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person.  >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone.  I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes.    I'm shocked by this news.   I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM.  If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

I know that it's not easy to prevent multibuyin. However, some effort must be taken. e.g. check the transcation history.  you can see :
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6635869272840226493
And of course, people can buy with their multi NXT accounts.
And also need check the brand new IDs with same IPs.

About this account http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1

you should thank him because He is actually donating a lot to NEM becasue

"Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation"

we did not have time to check everything thoroughly yet but Counter sockpuppet measure will apply in this case.

This user also has several transactions of a made ​​to another account (which it does not really stand so) he has as you can see several of his millions of coins accounnts made ​​and transferred one of which always money to NEM for example.

[abuelau]

I think that the only way is to:

1) Form a committee paid by dev fund (3-5 ppl) that will go through all stakes and identify possible sock puppets.
2) Ban Newbie accounts created after NEM annoucement unless they send an email to somewhere explaining who they are, where they heard about NEM and a short bio
3) Announce the end of the fundraising period soon

[utopianfuture]

I think that the only way is to:

1) Form a committee paid by dev fund (3-5 ppl) that will go through all stakes and identify possible sock puppets.
2) Ban Newbie accounts created after NEM annoucement unless they send an email to somewhere explaining who they are, where they heard about NEM and a short bio
3) Announce the end of the fundraising period soon

We already have pre-defined rules. No new rule will be applied retroactively.

[patmast3r]

2) Ban Newbie accounts created after NEM annoucement unless they send an email to somewhere explaining who they are, where they heard about NEM and a short bio

Do you wan't to read those 3 thousand emails ?

[gu7008]

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person.  >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone.  I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes.    I'm shocked by this news.   I thought there must be sth wrong.

1) Form a committee paid by dev fund (3-5 ppl) that will go through all stakes and identify possible sock puppets.

Maybe that's a good idea.

Even the possibility of one person holds 100 NEM stakes is a serious buiness. Such deed should not be encouraged. NEM's future shouldn't be holded in the unhonest hands like that.

[abuelau]

2) Ban Newbie accounts created after NEM annoucement unless they send an email to somewhere explaining who they are, where they heard about NEM and a short bio

Do you wan't to read those 3 thousand emails ?

I doubt we have 3000 newbies. And you just need to skim through the emails anyway, the purpose is to make it so that it takes 10mins to write the email but just 5 secs to skim through it. The guy creating 150 accounts would need to write 150 emails and send from 150 different addresses... impractical. We might still get the odd guy that uses his work email and his wife's email, but we are making it more difficult and at least we block the whales.

[utopianfuture]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.

It's not about the newbies - I'm one myself. It's about people that try to get more than 2 stakes. It's supposed to be even  - everyone should get the same amount of NEM.

I think i have to do a bit of hype containment here because it could be bad publicity to NEM that we say we do things we cannot back up. It is not my goal that everyone should get the same amount of NEM. Several main developers would likely to get more than 10 dev stakes so it is apparently contradictory to say we promote "everyone has the same stakes". NEM's main goal on distribution front is to spread NEM as widely and equally as possible and to build a huge user base from the start. that's what i mean when i wrote "NEM symbolizes a great sense of fairness and egalitarianism".  To do that we have a couple of measures:

1. 1 account/ 1 stake rule
2. checking sending address aka counter sockpuppet measure
3. taint analyses to find big multi-accters

The equal shares to all (account) is a nice by product slogan of rule 1 but don't confuse that with we try to distribute NEM to every single person equally. I am still proud of what we have in distribution front as it is unparalleled so far compared to other cryptos.

If someone wants to build a more extreme version of equality coin, I would welcome that too. It is not the envy game we are playing here  

No envy - NEM goes forward.
 

Please read my view above, especially the bold part. The NEM front page is the social contract I wrote when I decided to raise money for this project and asked for developers/ helpers and I am going to honor that social contract as long as this project stays viable.  

[msin]

veteran poster labeling every new member "fraudster" need to cool it.  I like NEM, i have asked my friends to join NEM, they paid for it with real money, how can we be sure NEM itself is not a scam?

This tread is more than 40 pages long and half of it is filled with people complaining about other peoples stake. Nem wants to attract new people , why would a newbie join NEM if all you so called "veterans" label us newbies  "fraudster".

NEM has a very small chance of succeeding in this already flooded cryptomarket , we are all taking a punt and some have gambled more than others, that does not mean they are frauds. A lot of .04 or .05 btc will add up.

If we truly want NEM to succeed, we need to be more welcoming. Someone can just start a new coin following the same initial distribution model ( future coin ) then we are left with just another cheap  crypto if even that.

Veterans I don't mean to offend but rather than bickering lets welcome everyone( we need all the help we can get) and think of ways to make NEM a better coin. We need a market place where all NEM stake holders should initially put at least one tangible stuff for sale priced solely in NEM coin. If we can achieve that,we would have managed to outpace almost all these other crypto coins.

It's not about the newbies - I'm one myself. It's about people that try to get more than 2 stakes. It's supposed to be even  - everyone should get the same amount of NEM.

I think i have to do a bit of hype containment here because it could be bad publicity to NEM that we say we do things we cannot back up. It is not my goal that everyone should get the same amount of NEM. Several main developers would likely to get more than 10 dev stakes so it is apparently contradictory to say we promote "everyone has the same stakes". NEM's main goal on distribution front is to spread NEM as widely and equally as possible and to build a huge user base from the start. that's what i mean when i wrote "NEM symbolizes a great sense of fairness and egalitarianism".  To do that we have a couple of measures:

1. 1 account/ 1 stake rule
2. checking sending address aka counter sockpuppet measure
3. taint analyses to find big multi-accters

The equal shares to all (account) is a nice by product slogan of rule 1 but don't confuse that with we try to distribute NEM to every single person equally. I am still proud of what we have in distribution front as it is unparalleled so far compared to other cryptos.

If someone wants to build a more extreme version of equality coin, I would welcome that too. It is not the envy game we are playing here  

No envy - NEM goes forward.
 

Please read my view above, especially the bold part. The NEM front page is the social contract I wrote when I decided to raise money for this project and asked for developers/ helpers and I am going to honor that social contract as long as this project stays viable.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4975162#msg4975162

[jkoil]

If we want to convey equality how about a scale:



This is just from google as inspiration

also thought such scales and tried to add "M" (Movement) to its shape ...
Hadn't had time to sketch it 

[Xpedite]

Ok, let me change the subject once more please 

I'm a fan of the hybrid forging ideas being thrown out. While POS may lead to price stability, wouldn't it also be a deterrent to actually spending/using NEM as a currency?

I have been thinking about the PON and although I think it's a wonderfull way to show NEM's dedication to equality, it will not attract alot more people to invest in the currency. But don't get me wrong, I am not against PON, and it will certainly ensure a good network!

However, after some brain flexing I have the idea that price stability is the number one goal; the second goal should be to make NEM attractive for merchants. Any currency can only become commonly used once people can actually buy things with it.
And again, to attract merchants you need good stability.

On the other hand, opticalcarrier's ideas are a good encouragement to actively use the currency.
see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4954508#msg4954508

And as utopianfuture has allready pointed out, due to the distribution of NEM there is little concern about POS unfairness like earlier pointed out for NXT.

So, if it were up to me I would rather go with 60% POS and 40% PON or something. This way one can still just set up a network and start forging but people would at least be encouraged not to speculate too much.

So please let's share some thoughts about this 

[patmast3r]

Ok, let me change the subject once more please 

I'm a fan of the hybrid forging ideas being thrown out. While POS may lead to price stability, wouldn't it also be a deterrent to actually spending/using NEM as a currency?

I have been thinking about the PON and although I think it's a wonderfull way to show NEM's dedication to equality, it will not attract alot more people to invest in the currency. But don't get me wrong, I am not against PON, and it will certainly ensure a good network!

However, after some brain flexing I have the idea that price stability is the number one goal; the second goal should be to make NEM attractive for merchants. Any currency can only become commonly used once people can actually buy things with it.
And again, to attract merchants you need good stability.

On the other hand, opticalcarrier's ideas are a good encouragement to actively use the currency.
see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4954508#msg4954508

And as utopianfuture has allready pointed out, due to the distribution of NEM there is little concern about POS unfairness like earlier pointed out for NXT.

So, if it were up to me I would rather go with 60% POS and 40% PON or something. This way one can still just set up a network and start forging but people would at least be encouraged not to speculate too much.

So please let's share some thoughts about this 

I don't understand why more attention to PON would attract speculation. Could you elaborate on that ?
Also I think the POS/PON combination is something new and thus would get people to invest and have interest in NEM. I'm still for 60 % PON since I deem supporting the network by running a node is more valuable than merely having coins (regardless which amount).

[opticalcarrier]

ok someone point me to a beginners explanation of pon.  Ive never heard about it

[ashapasa]

yes what is a PON