[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[pazsion]

I regret not getting a 2nd stake too. I'm a horrible day trader and I could not even increase my stake on the exchange. So I wont even bother claiming a token.
but I'm happy to see prices rising again, I hope we got rid of all dumpers

Believe that the rise in the price of I, of course, this is only the beginning. We will slowly walked to the road of sunshine

[jenea4pda]

Just spotted this article about NEM http://bitcoinist.net/nem-new-economy-movement/ which contains quite a few factual errors, especially the part about the development team. Someone should tell him to read the organization tab in NEM summary. There is a nice volume from the site to our website though. NEM is getting noticed !

Yep, some minor mistakes there are, but it's great that we have article like this!

[gimre]

Could a developer help me to answer this Redditor's question regarding future features of NEM?

I know NEM will be launching with an asset exchange and encrypted messaging etc, but I'm curious what the plans for NEM are after that. Will NEM eventually have features like Transparent Forging, Account Leasing, and an Alias System?

TF - rather not (it might make sense in PoS, but not that much in PoI, also, is there any coin/system running that has WORKING TF?)
Account Leasing - actually power leasing not account leasing - it'll have something that we believe will be much more interesting, but we don't want to spread the details yet
Alias System - we were discussing it, and we did'n find good reason to have it (also we are thinking about something that might be more general)

[pazsion]

NEM has now had so much volume on the NXT asset exchange that it is not only #1, it is bigger than all the rest put together. 

This is a small win, lets not go crazy about, but lets also try to work to make more and more wins!

See more and more investors already on the way to the miners
 

[gimre]

Hi devs!

I would like to prepare the paper-wallet voucher and will need NEM private keys and a correspondig NEM addresses for this. I am trying to find out how both will be created but will need your help as it seems that i have currently not all the infos i would need.
 

Although I believe paper wallet is a great idea, I doubt that it makes any sense to prepare it before Beta.

[pazsion]

Distribution will play a big effect.  Leveraging all these people is going to be powerful.  I think this coin will be top  5 within year of launch.

Everyone involved Do something for the sake of our own
 

[michaelb87]

Hi guys,

I would like to sell my NEM stake, but I only have an office laptop so can't install the NXT client. Is there maybe a webclient through which I can acces the AE?

My NEM stake is otherwise also for sale directly for the highest buy order on the AE. So if anyone is interested, my NEM stake is for sale for 19.000 NXT or 2 BTC at the moment. Can be more or less depending on the AE value. PM me if interested!

Not dropping my interest in NEM but just in need of money at the moment, will buy back in later and support the community cause I strongly believe in this coin.

[owon]

Hi devs!

I would like to prepare the paper-wallet voucher and will need NEM private keys and a correspondig NEM addresses for this. I am trying to find out how both will be created but will need your help as it seems that i have currently not all the infos i would need.
 

Although I believe paper wallet is a great idea, I doubt that it makes any sense to prepare it before Beta.

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

[owon]

Hi devs!

I would like to prepare the paper-wallet voucher and will need NEM private keys and a correspondig NEM addresses for this. I am trying to find out how both will be created but will need your help as it seems that i have currently not all the infos i would need.
 

Although I believe paper wallet is a great idea, I doubt that it makes any sense to prepare it before Beta.

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

nxt didnt have a white paper for months after launch? has that stopped their epic growth recently? all the attention? nope lol white paper now or later is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. chillax your cax!

one moment, please, i am not asking for a white paper here, i am talking about a paper wallet. Just want to know how the addresses are build and encoded to prepare my work for the NEM community. But, ok, seems to be a bit to early to ask.

[patmast3r]

Hi devs!

I would like to prepare the paper-wallet voucher and will need NEM private keys and a correspondig NEM addresses for this. I am trying to find out how both will be created but will need your help as it seems that i have currently not all the infos i would need.
 

Although I believe paper wallet is a great idea, I doubt that it makes any sense to prepare it before Beta.

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

nxt didnt have a white paper for months after launch? has that stopped their epic growth recently? all the attention? nope lol white paper now or later is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. chillax your cax!

hold on please, i am not asking for a white paper here. Just want to know how the addresses are build and encoded to prepare my work for the NEM community. But, ok, seems to be to early to ask.

It's not too early to ask. This stuff is definitely already settled.
As i remember it your proposed way (sha3-ripe160-...) was spot on but if you want to headover to #nemcoin on freenode you can ask a core-dev

[conbos]

Thanks xtester for an interesting post. In some circles NEM is accused of being "socialist" which is nothing further from the truth. NEM's equality concept is about equal opportunity not equal outcomes. Hence "we could support the the principle of equal opportunity to give all people a fair chance in life." That's the idea behind community distribution round.[/size]

Totally agree with you, utopianfuture. Now people who think we are socialists can read the post above and understand what we mean when we speak about equality.

In addition to that I think the further NEM will advance, while there will be a lot who will love us, there will always be some people who will continually find something to accuse us of. In the end they will be amazed at our outcome, that's what we'll focus on, that's what will matter.

We should become a paradise for all productive, innovative and ingenuos people.

Btw are you acquainted with the work of nobel laureat in economics and probably the most important psychologist alive, Daniel Kahneman?

NEM accused of being socialist! this is hilarious!!
I agree with our ideas... equal opportunities is a key concept and a fundamental distinction of any reminiscent of central planned economies.
I am actually reading the actual best-seller of the moment; Thomas Picketty and all his idea of r>g as a source of inequality. In this context, NEM can be a key tool to equally distribute the capital (stakes), we are creating a complete "new economy" in which the capital, as well as the labour force is not concentrated. Thus, everyone has the opportunity to on the one hand "invest" and obtain capital return and second, to use the labour force to create conditions of increasing wealth.
I'm looking forward to the moment that we can give a very relevant step in the consolidation of the movement, which is the possibility to connect NEM with the "real world" (merchants, local trade, etc); there will be at the ed, the strength of the movement.  

[TauMuon]

Could a developer help me to answer this Redditor's question regarding future features of NEM?

I know NEM will be launching with an asset exchange and encrypted messaging etc, but I'm curious what the plans for NEM are after that. Will NEM eventually have features like Transparent Forging, Account Leasing, and an Alias System?

TF - rather not (it might make sense in PoS, but not that much in PoI, also, is there any coin/system running that has WORKING TF?)
Account Leasing - actually power leasing not account leasing - it'll have something that we believe will be much more interesting, but we don't want to spread the details yet
Alias System - we were discussing it, and we did'n find good reason to have it (also we are thinking about something that might be more general)

Thanks!

[gimre]

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

Actually we're considering one change, but I'll ansewer you on PM anyway

[TauMuon]

To the myriad number of people complaining about the length of time NEM is taking to build, just bear in mind NEM is being built from scratch. A fully-functioning, scalable technological platform with a stunning user-friendly client and blockchain explorer does not just happen. It takes time and patience to create something truly worthwhile.

The roadmap ahead for NEM can be found in the F.A.Q. thread.

Also, shameless NEM subreddit plug for those who haven't seen it.

[owon]

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

Actually we're considering one change, but I'll ansewer you on PM anyway

@ gimre thanks a lot, i don't want to hurry, pls. take your time
@ kodtycoon  everything fine, tnx !  

[gimre]

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

Actually we're considering one change, but I'll ansewer you on PM anyway

@ gimre thanks a lot, i don't want to hurry, pls. take your time
@ kodtycoon  everything fine, tnx !  

1. curve is secp256k1
2. public key is "compressed" (there's byte 02 or 03 byte used instead of encoding full Y, Y can be retrieved from X and that 02/03 byte)

encoding public key (PK):
1. d1 = sha3(PK)
2. d2 = ripe160(d1)
3. d3 = concat(version, d2),  version byte for alpha is 0x98
4. chk = 4 first bytes of sha3(d3)
5. d4 = concat(d3, chk)
6. Base32encode(d4)

[jkoil]

NEM's Great Equality Experiment And The Marshmallow Test

What Equality Means?

The other day I found myself reflecting on NEM, what it is and what we all want to make of it. It seems there is a great discussion going on in the world regarding inequality and so NEM equality experiment comes at the precisely right point in time. As usual I think people focus on the wrong things. We should strive to give people equal opportunities, but they are not and should not be equal in outcome. In fact, though most of us start as equal now, I have no doubt we will not end as equal. If high productivity people work and risk 10x more than the other people, it's common sense that they should also be rewarded 10x more. Indeed, I think this kind of inequality is a natural and even necessary effect of the free market. If you would want to cut this kind of inequality off, you would also have to cut startups, inventions and innovations with it, since this may be the greatest driver for that.

Here are two quotes with which I tend to agree:

Worry about skin in the game, not inequality. Worry about equality in opportunity not outcome. Worry about the powerful corporations taking over the system via lobbyists and blocking artisans. Worry about the class of privileged mandarins-WNSITG (with no skin in the game) taking over the system via "grandes ecoles"..." - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. - Unknown

NEM And The Altcoin Landscape

Unfortunately the altcoin landscape is currently plagued with cheap scams and elaborate pump and dump schemes along with a horde of impulsive people enjoying playing this game. However NEM has nothing to do with this landscape. While we may well go through a cambrian crypto-explosion phase, NEM seems to be already between the fittest and is only getting stronger every passing day.

I know things are more complex but for the sake of simplicity consider the following graph:

                                                                              The Altcoin Landscape

                                
                             Cheap Scams          Elaborate Scams             Clones                Low Innovation         Deep Innovation
                                      I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I--------------------I

       Approx. Time:        1 Day                      1 Week                  1 Month               3 - 6 Months                1 Year

      Approx. Difficulty:      1/10                       2/10                       4/10                       6/10                       10/10

Approx. Value Created:    1 btc                      10 btc                     50 btc                    100 btc                    10000 btc



You must understand that while it would take 1 day to create a cheap scam, 1 month to clone a complex coin like Nxt, it would probably take at least about 1 year to invent a deeply innovative coin if you have all other necessary resources at your disposal¹(Nxt would be good example of that). Indeed, it would be both stupid and frustrating to confuse deep innovation with clones or low innovation and demand otherwise. NEM aims to bring deep innovation on multiple levels, so when the alpha version along with more interesting details will be disclosed, I think a lot of people will get very excited and some will even get nervous. Indeed this could be one of the most important developments of the altcoin world in 2014. But as you might understand, until the right moment comes, most of these details need to be kept secret for obvious strategic reasons.

Anyway, starting with our extremely competent and responsible dev team, our large, talented and diverse community, our fair distribution and equality experiment, I think you can all see that with each passing day NEM is evolving to be a whole different kind of creature, unlike anything you have seen it the altcoin world until now. But in order to see that, you must get out of the noisy and impulsive crowd and focus on the signal. If you look close enough I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

The Marshmallow Test And Financial Freedom

It seems there are two major impediments on the road to financial freedom. One of them is the economic and banking system which we are trying to solve at least partially through NEM. The other one is a bit more counter-intuitive and less thought of, it's ourselves(with all the decisions and wrong moves we make). If we want to achieve something we must shift from a consumer mindset to a producer mindset, and therein lies the key.

Looking at the marshmallow experiment which emphasizes self-control and delayed gratification as a better predictor of success than IQ, I can only wonder what all those people selling NEM now will think in a couple of months.

If you would have to choose between receiving 1.5 btc for your share now or delaying gratification to receive at least 10x that amount in a couple of months, what would you choose?

If self-control and delayed gratification are a good predictor of success, it seems quite obvious to me, impulsivity may be an even better predictor of failure.

So in the end, I can only say be wise and make smart decisions because although we all start with an equal opportunity, ultimately our decisions, contributions and productivity will decide our outcome, and trust me, as it looks, there won't be any equality in that.




References
¹ Through necessary resources I mean an enormous amount of brain power, time and energy to invest and conceptualize such a novel technology and an even greater amount of brainpower, time, energy and determination to transform things from the realm of ideas to reality. But it gets even more intriguing, since although these resources are necessary, in a lot of cases they may still not be sufficient.

About  "we all start with an equal": 
basically yes, but there still exist differences (like e.g. in Europe Union's countries - some people have said that one currency, Euro, is not suitable for so many, different countries)


We (NEM community) are from different countries with different economies and different backgrounds.
That may create the pressure or the opportunity to sell NEM stakes now.
The selling may make the community containing more similarity than in the stakeholder list.
Maybe it will be a good thing. Unless just now is happening a creation of some "whales"...

[martismartis]

Hi guys,

I would like to sell my NEM stake, but I only have an office laptop so can't install the NXT client. Is there maybe a webclient through which I can acces the AE?

My NEM stake is otherwise also for sale directly for the highest buy order on the AE. So if anyone is interested, my NEM stake is for sale for 19.000 NXT or 2 BTC at the moment. Can be more or less depending on the AE value. PM me if interested!

Not dropping my interest in NEM but just in need of money at the moment, will buy back in later and support the community cause I strongly believe in this coin.

You can try to use my public node at http://217.17.88.5:7876

[owon]

You may be right, but i would guess that the key creation process will stay nearly the the same in alpha,beta and final version. I plan a package that will enable everybody to create this vouchers and as i am not a pro dev it will take some of my time. The key creation process will hopefully not change that much so it can be prepared now which will give me some more time for the graphics later on and i will be able to test my first results on the beta.

Actually we're considering one change, but I'll ansewer you on PM anyway

@ gimre thanks a lot, i don't want to hurry, pls. take your time
@ kodtycoon  everything fine, tnx !  

1. curve is secp256k1
2. public key is "compressed" (there's byte 02 or 03 byte used instead of encoding full Y, Y can be retrieved from X and that 02/03 byte)

encoding public key (PK):
1. d1 = sha3(PK)
2. d2 = ripe160(d1)
3. d3 = concat(version, d2),  version byte for alpha is 0x98
4. chk = 4 first bytes of sha3(d3)
5. d4 = concat(d3, chk)
6. Base32encode(d4)

Perfect, that will help, thanks! Will the base32 use special alphabet? private key will be 32byte int? and is there already a wallet import format defined for the private key, will it be base32 or base58 encoded?

[TauMuon]

How's the closed alpha coming along? Any horrendous bugs reared their ugly heads?