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Author Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread  (Read 659246 times)
Jaguar0625
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June 06, 2014, 04:23:22 AM
 #9001

Maybe what Gimre really meant was:

Alpha: testnet

Beta: most likely REAL thing

This makes sense as I remember reading posts saying the beta will be the 'launch'. Hopefully our mutual confusion will be cleared up by a dev.

Alpha = 100% testnet and monopoly money. Beta = Likely to be in the testnet for the first phase and then move to the main-net (with real stake and coins). It is still undecided whether nemesis block is on launch day or in beta. It doesn't make much difference imo.

NEM Beta will include some special features. Even NEM open Alpha will likely include special features that are not in other coin's launch. For example: NIS codes for secure messaging have been completed and just need GUI to be on Open Alpha. Secure messaging is not even in Nxt NOW 9 month after the coin launch. Talk about the difference between one system's alpha and the other system's so-call advanced stage.

NEM beta will include features that have never been in any other system. What are they ? We cannot tell you because the codes are not completed and there are some uncertainty in the implementation. However, there will be at least one special feature moving from NEM Alpha to NEM Beta.

The current NEM roadmap is alpha -> beta -> release -> v1 completion

Alpha
The alpha will be launching soon and will have many of the announced NEM features. The goal of the alpha is to show everyone what we've been working on the last few months and let them play with it and give feedback. Most importantly, it should be a starting point for other developers to build on top of NEM. In order for NEM to be a success, it needs to have a thriving community and a lot of skunksworks projects by community members. All of the successful coins have strong ecosystems, and NEM needs one too. (NEM is off to a great start in this respect, but it's important to keep up the momentum).

Beta
The core dev team has 3-5 super secret features to work on during this time that we're really excited about. Once they're stable, NEM will enter Beta where NEM V1 will be feature complete. The Beta period will be mostly for stabilization and bug bashing.

Release
Once the Beta proves resilient, NEM will officially be released, and the NEMesis block will be created on main-net.

V1
After the release, the focus will shift to the NEM asset exchange. Upon completion of the asset exchange, the NEM V1 blockchain will be completed, and who knows what will happen after that?

NEM - nem.io
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xtester
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June 06, 2014, 04:58:41 AM
 #9002

Maybe what Gimre really meant was:

Alpha: testnet

Beta: most likely REAL thing

This makes sense as I remember reading posts saying the beta will be the 'launch'. Hopefully our mutual confusion will be cleared up by a dev.

Alpha = 100% testnet and monopoly money. Beta = Likely to be in the testnet for the first phase and then move to the main-net (with real stake and coins). It is still undecided whether nemesis block is on launch day or in beta. It doesn't make much difference imo.

NEM Beta will include some special features. Even NEM open Alpha will likely include special features that are not in other coin's launch. For example: NIS codes for secure messaging have been completed and just need GUI to be on Open Alpha. Secure messaging is not even in Nxt NOW 9 month after the coin launch. Talk about the difference between one system's alpha and the other system's so-call advanced stage.

NEM beta will include features that have never been in any other system. What are they ? We cannot tell you because the codes are not completed and there are some uncertainty in the implementation. However, there will be at least one special feature moving from NEM Alpha to NEM Beta.

The current NEM roadmap is alpha -> beta -> release -> v1 completion

Alpha
The alpha will be launching soon and will have many of the announced NEM features. The goal of the alpha is to show everyone what we've been working on the last few months and let them play with it and give feedback. Most importantly, it should be a starting point for other developers to build on top of NEM. In order for NEM to be a success, it needs to have a thriving community and a lot of skunksworks projects by community members. All of the successful coins have strong ecosystems, and NEM needs one too. (NEM is off to a great start in this respect, but it's important to keep up the momentum).

Beta
The core dev team has 3-5 super secret features to work on during this time that we're really excited about. Once they're stable, NEM will enter Beta where NEM V1 will be feature complete. The Beta period will be mostly for stabilization and bug bashing.

Release
Once the Beta proves resilient, NEM will officially be released, and the NEMesis block will be created on main-net.

V1
After the release, the focus will shift to the NEM asset exchange. Upon completion of the asset exchange, the NEM V1 blockchain will be completed, and who knows what will happen after that?


Thanks for the important info. By that time I suspect NEM will be in top 5, if not top 3. Smiley
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June 06, 2014, 05:00:48 AM
 #9003

Wow, after reading about how PoS and forging works in NXT, I think POI is a much better idea. I don't have a mountain of NXT so there really isn't much of an incentive for me to leave the server portion running. To me, the more people that contribute to the network the more secure it is (decentralization), and as the currency dilutes, more people will be in the same position. More people will hoard to create stake and that defeats the point of a currencies fluidness. If you want to use the currency as a store of wealth (gold, you don't transact in it, just keep it for stability), fine. But, for a "fiat" to succeed by its' very nature, a lot of people need to want and use it.

Maybe I don't fully understand PoS, but this just doesn't feel all that terrific. Still, better than PoW I think...

Also, on the one hand, I like the idea that perhaps increasing one's node(s) with infrastructure results in a direct benefit (like adding infrastructure to a utility and increasing customer base). If I want to be a big participant I can do it on my own dime for fun and it benefits the network. On the other hand, it seems like it might encourage centralization again if folks wanted to build huge node farms then we are back to ASIC farm dangers again. So it is almost like you need some sort of "difficulty" co-efficient like in mining where the participating nodes have scale to a point and then diminishing returns. I have no idea how you'd enforce that as any method I can think of easily bypassed (by IP? by client ID?, etc.)

Enlighten me if you know better. I'll need to pour over the NEM POI docs.

(This may be offtopic so feel free to ignore)

In NXT to don't secure the network when you forge with a small NXT balance, that is why you don't get any rewards. If you run a node with few NXT you "stabilize" the network, but for security purposes you don't add anything. That is the reason why the Balanceforging/Totalbalanceforging blockforgingchance was introduced. This can't be exploited. If the POI can be exploitet is yet to be seen.

I have been talking about this on the NXT forum but have met a lot of resistance.  The top 15 accounts take 2/3 of all transaction fees for themselves.  Probably another 20-30 accounts are taking a big part of the 1/3 left over, but I can't say for sure because I didn't see the numbers.  

The problem with this is that the top 20-40 accounts are taking most of the transaction fees.  These are all people that have close to $1,000,000 in NXT or actually much more in some of the cases.  So basically if a person doesn't have $500,000 in NXT, there is no benefit in forging.  To me in the long term, this makes for an extremely flawed system for protecting a network.  I'll admit though I am not much on a technical side.  

I always liked the idea of in bitcoin that there were thousands of people running a node.  In NXT hearing that 20-40 people have the only nodes that matter is a little scary to me.  

With NEM, we start off with thousands of users and lots of people incentivised to run a node, even people that don't own a lot of NEM.  

I really like NXT a lot, and I mean A LOT.  I think NXT is the best thing since bitcoin, and Ripple is also pretty promising too.  But still, until Ripple actually gets partners and a decent user base, it is worthless (the partners they want to have will actually lose money if they join Ripple).  And until NXT can convince me that their POS is actually stable long term, I am a bit worried.  On top of that the fee now for making a NXT transaction is 8 or 9 cents, where in other services it can be magnitudes time cheaper, like in Ripple where it is 10,000,000 times cheaper.  I have brought up the fact that the fee being so high on NXT forums and get blasted that it isn't too high, I am guessing by some of those accounts with over a million USD as they are getting nice profits from those transaction fees.  

With NEM and POI, we have people that can form a network and a good way to strengthen the network (in theory, we have to see the code first to know for sure).  NEM has also addressed the continual thorn in the side of NXT too which is the original stakeholder problem.  

NEM      Faucet      Slack Invite      Easy API’s      Light Wallet      Amazing White Paper       Supernodes     Telegram Invite     Mijin 
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June 06, 2014, 05:03:31 AM
 #9004

Maybe what Gimre really meant was:

Alpha: testnet

Beta: most likely REAL thing

This makes sense as I remember reading posts saying the beta will be the 'launch'. Hopefully our mutual confusion will be cleared up by a dev.

Alpha = 100% testnet and monopoly money. Beta = Likely to be in the testnet for the first phase and then move to the main-net (with real stake and coins). It is still undecided whether nemesis block is on launch day or in beta. It doesn't make much difference imo.

NEM Beta will include some special features. Even NEM open Alpha will likely include special features that are not in other coin's launch. For example: NIS codes for secure messaging have been completed and just need GUI to be on Open Alpha. Secure messaging is not even in Nxt NOW 9 month after the coin launch. Talk about the difference between one system's alpha and the other system's so-call advanced stage.

NEM beta will include features that have never been in any other system. What are they ? We cannot tell you because the codes are not completed and there are some uncertainty in the implementation. However, there will be at least one special feature moving from NEM Alpha to NEM Beta.

The current NEM roadmap is alpha -> beta -> release -> v1 completion

Alpha
The alpha will be launching soon and will have many of the announced NEM features. The goal of the alpha is to show everyone what we've been working on the last few months and let them play with it and give feedback. Most importantly, it should be a starting point for other developers to build on top of NEM. In order for NEM to be a success, it needs to have a thriving community and a lot of skunksworks projects by community members. All of the successful coins have strong ecosystems, and NEM needs one too. (NEM is off to a great start in this respect, but it's important to keep up the momentum).

Beta
The core dev team has 3-5 super secret features to work on during this time that we're really excited about. Once they're stable, NEM will enter Beta where NEM V1 will be feature complete. The Beta period will be mostly for stabilization and bug bashing.

Release
Once the Beta proves resilient, NEM will officially be released, and the NEMesis block will be created on main-net.

V1
After the release, the focus will shift to the NEM asset exchange. Upon completion of the asset exchange, the NEM V1 blockchain will be completed, and who knows what will happen after that?


Good job, thanks for your hark work.

I just have one question,  is it possible that the Alpha version will be released this month?
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June 06, 2014, 05:39:41 AM
 #9005

Wow, after reading about how PoS and forging works in NXT, I think POI is a much better idea. I don't have a mountain of NXT so there really isn't much of an incentive for me to leave the server portion running. To me, the more people that contribute to the network the more secure it is (decentralization), and as the currency dilutes, more people will be in the same position. More people will hoard to create stake and that defeats the point of a currencies fluidness. If you want to use the currency as a store of wealth (gold, you don't transact in it, just keep it for stability), fine. But, for a "fiat" to succeed by its' very nature, a lot of people need to want and use it.

Maybe I don't fully understand PoS, but this just doesn't feel all that terrific. Still, better than PoW I think...

Also, on the one hand, I like the idea that perhaps increasing one's node(s) with infrastructure results in a direct benefit (like adding infrastructure to a utility and increasing customer base). If I want to be a big participant I can do it on my own dime for fun and it benefits the network. On the other hand, it seems like it might encourage centralization again if folks wanted to build huge node farms then we are back to ASIC farm dangers again. So it is almost like you need some sort of "difficulty" co-efficient like in mining where the participating nodes have scale to a point and then diminishing returns. I have no idea how you'd enforce that as any method I can think of easily bypassed (by IP? by client ID?, etc.)

Enlighten me if you know better. I'll need to pour over the NEM POI docs.

(This may be offtopic so feel free to ignore)

In NXT to don't secure the network when you forge with a small NXT balance, that is why you don't get any rewards. If you run a node with few NXT you "stabilize" the network, but for security purposes you don't add anything. That is the reason why the Balanceforging/Totalbalanceforging blockforgingchance was introduced. This can't be exploited. If the POI can be exploitet is yet to be seen.

Why do you think that if there are two identical nodes the one owned by the wealthier NXTer will add more stability to the network? Both nodes will do the same verification of blocks and transactions. The only difference is the frequency of forged blocks, which the larger account holder will be able forge more quickly.

I am not sure if this is correct or not, but BCNext original explained that each NXT was like a little miner.  I am not sure, but maybe it is possible that a person with only one NXT, basically would be like a really really old and small miner.  Or it might have to be with the "random deterministic" forging pattern in that only the big accounts get picked and so only they matter. 

I think like you Jaguar, that in theory every node should be contributing the same amount.  All have the chain and all are recognizing transactions, but it seems like I have heard other people talking the way TwinWinNerd explains it.  Some of the people on the NXT forum that should be quite knowledgeable have said things like that so I really don't know.  There might only be a dozen or so people that really know because not everybody can see the code.

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makoto1337
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June 06, 2014, 05:45:38 AM
 #9006

This is going to be huge. I am confident NEM will explode (once the initial dumpers take quick profits).

To da moon!

NeverEnoughMakoto XEM: NDMAKOTODH4OXMQCAGZWWPVLRUVOCLXXKOSKFUJA/
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June 06, 2014, 06:12:45 AM
 #9007

Any ideas on what NEM will be trading at once alpha launches?

Still on the NXT AE.

Alpha coins will not be real.
Beta coins will neither.

Only launch coins will be real and will be most likely first traded on dgex, poloniex or bittrex.

Last I checked we wanted to stay away from dgex to differentiate ourselves from NXT and most importantly NAS.
There is absolutely no word on where NEM will be traded.

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June 06, 2014, 07:58:20 AM
 #9008

Hi guys,

Just created a NXT account to trade NEM. Could somebody please send me some nxt to test?

17799409080259130078

Thanks!
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June 06, 2014, 08:23:40 AM
 #9009

Hi guys,

Just created a NXT account to trade NEM. Could somebody please send me some nxt to test?

17799409080259130078

Thanks!

I'll take some free NXT too Cheesy
NXT-GUC8-WQD8-5BLX-CLPQE

NeverEnoughMakoto XEM: NDMAKOTODH4OXMQCAGZWWPVLRUVOCLXXKOSKFUJA/
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June 06, 2014, 08:26:49 AM
 #9010

Maybe what Gimre really meant was:

Alpha: testnet

Beta: most likely REAL thing

This makes sense as I remember reading posts saying the beta will be the 'launch'. Hopefully our mutual confusion will be cleared up by a dev.

Alpha = 100% testnet and monopoly money. Beta = Likely to be in the testnet for the first phase and then move to the main-net (with real stake and coins). It is still undecided whether nemesis block is on launch day or in beta. It doesn't make much difference imo.

NEM Beta will include some special features. Even NEM open Alpha will likely include special features that are not in other coin's launch. For example: NIS codes for secure messaging have been completed and just need GUI to be on Open Alpha. Secure messaging is not even in Nxt NOW 9 month after the coin launch. Talk about the difference between one system's alpha and the other system's so-call advanced stage.

NEM beta will include features that have never been in any other system. What are they ? We cannot tell you because the codes are not completed and there are some uncertainty in the implementation. However, there will be at least one special feature moving from NEM Alpha to NEM Beta.

The current NEM roadmap is alpha -> beta -> release -> v1 completion

Alpha
The alpha will be launching soon and will have many of the announced NEM features. The goal of the alpha is to show everyone what we've been working on the last few months and let them play with it and give feedback. Most importantly, it should be a starting point for other developers to build on top of NEM. In order for NEM to be a success, it needs to have a thriving community and a lot of skunksworks projects by community members. All of the successful coins have strong ecosystems, and NEM needs one too. (NEM is off to a great start in this respect, but it's important to keep up the momentum).

Beta
The core dev team has 3-5 super secret features to work on during this time that we're really excited about. Once they're stable, NEM will enter Beta where NEM V1 will be feature complete. The Beta period will be mostly for stabilization and bug bashing.

Release
Once the Beta proves resilient, NEM will officially be released, and the NEMesis block will be created on main-net.

V1
After the release, the focus will shift to the NEM asset exchange. Upon completion of the asset exchange, the NEM V1 blockchain will be completed, and who knows what will happen after that?


Thanks for the important info. By that time I suspect NEM will be in top 5, if not top 3. Smiley

Cant wait to see how it works, hope they will launch open alpha soon as possible.
IMO someone may regret selling their stake at this point  Grin

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for betting tips and for https://betsikingi.info/vedonlyontibonukset-vedonlyontisivustot and Unibet TV for sports live streaming!
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June 06, 2014, 08:40:31 AM
 #9011

Hi guys,

Just created a NXT account to trade NEM. Could somebody please send me some nxt to test?

17799409080259130078

Thanks!

Try using this faucet: http://nxtra.org/faucet/
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June 06, 2014, 08:41:09 AM
 #9012

  how long we need to wait.

NXT:7107941072651674325
NTXCoin - 20%Free+75%IPO Next Exchange System address:68867263540612482
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June 06, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
 #9013

  how long we need to wait.


it's finished when it's finished.

You can believe that I personally want the waiting to be over more than anyone else. Not beacuse I don't have the patience but because people keep asking and it annoys the crap out of me.

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June 06, 2014, 09:05:10 AM
 #9014

NEM programmers done great job always. We get once in big lifetime opportunities for this. So, salute is for you!
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June 06, 2014, 10:05:14 AM
 #9015

how i can cancel one open order for nem stake at asset exchange? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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June 06, 2014, 10:06:52 AM
 #9016

how i can cancel one open order for nem stake at asset exchange? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

assets/my orders/cancel 1NXT Smiley

IOTA
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June 06, 2014, 10:09:19 AM
 #9017

ok i find it

thanks
xtester
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June 06, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
 #9018

Maybe what Gimre really meant was:

Alpha: testnet

Beta: most likely REAL thing

This makes sense as I remember reading posts saying the beta will be the 'launch'. Hopefully our mutual confusion will be cleared up by a dev.

Alpha = 100% testnet and monopoly money. Beta = Likely to be in the testnet for the first phase and then move to the main-net (with real stake and coins). It is still undecided whether nemesis block is on launch day or in beta. It doesn't make much difference imo.

NEM Beta will include some special features. Even NEM open Alpha will likely include special features that are not in other coin's launch. For example: NIS codes for secure messaging have been completed and just need GUI to be on Open Alpha. Secure messaging is not even in Nxt NOW 9 month after the coin launch. Talk about the difference between one system's alpha and the other system's so-call advanced stage.

NEM beta will include features that have never been in any other system. What are they ? We cannot tell you because the codes are not completed and there are some uncertainty in the implementation. However, there will be at least one special feature moving from NEM Alpha to NEM Beta.

The current NEM roadmap is alpha -> beta -> release -> v1 completion

Alpha
The alpha will be launching soon and will have many of the announced NEM features. The goal of the alpha is to show everyone what we've been working on the last few months and let them play with it and give feedback. Most importantly, it should be a starting point for other developers to build on top of NEM. In order for NEM to be a success, it needs to have a thriving community and a lot of skunksworks projects by community members. All of the successful coins have strong ecosystems, and NEM needs one too. (NEM is off to a great start in this respect, but it's important to keep up the momentum).

Beta
The core dev team has 3-5 super secret features to work on during this time that we're really excited about. Once they're stable, NEM will enter Beta where NEM V1 will be feature complete. The Beta period will be mostly for stabilization and bug bashing.

Release
Once the Beta proves resilient, NEM will officially be released, and the NEMesis block will be created on main-net.

V1
After the release, the focus will shift to the NEM asset exchange. Upon completion of the asset exchange, the NEM V1 blockchain will be completed, and who knows what will happen after that?


Thanks for the important info. By that time I suspect NEM will be in top 5, if not top 3. Smiley

Cant wait to see how it works, hope they will launch open alpha soon as possible.
IMO someone may regret selling their stake at this point  Grin

I think most of them will surely regret it. They are playing pump and dump with the wrong coin.

Remember we have not even launched yet and NEM already seems one of the most promising projects.

Just wait a bit and you'll see what I mean.
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June 06, 2014, 10:38:04 AM
 #9019

What I don't quite understand is the NEM V1 blockchain. Maybe someone can clear that up for me.

The info says that NEM will be released, and then they focus on the asset exchange and then v1 blockchain is released.

But doesn't the blockchain start as soon as NEM is released?
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June 06, 2014, 11:01:18 AM
 #9020

What I don't quite understand is the NEM V1 blockchain. Maybe someone can clear that up for me.

The info says that NEM will be released, and then they focus on the asset exchange and then v1 blockchain is released.

But doesn't the blockchain start as soon as NEM is released?

Of course there's a blockchain once NEM is released.
The talk about V1 should just predicate that only after the AE is launched NEM will be complete as in Version 1.0.
Obviously Development will continue after V1 but V1 marks a milestone in the release plan.

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