[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[roselee]

http://www.altcointoday.com/chinese-exchange-yunbi-lost-40000-etc/

Chinese Exchange Yunbi Lost 40,000 ETC Over Chain Vulnerability


 the Ethereum Foundation which employs countless of experienced developers working on sharding, Casper and other applications has come out in support of ETH:

    We will focus our resources and attention on the chain which is now called ETH (ie. the fork chain)

Ethereum users and dapp developers can, therefore, fully ignore ETC and be safe from relay attacks if they transact on only one chain allowing the two communities to freely co-exist and compete in their chosen path.


etc HF or die...

that nice of them pumpy but why didnt they help earlier ? i thought the ethereum foundation was built only to develop ethereum ?
if they come out now what did they do befor?
i thought they put already all resuces on the problem ? beginning from the doa desaster to the hf and now to solve this replay attack?

and pumpy the skype leak showed that the devs themself picked up the etc and sold them or am i wrong ?
see read
https://imgur.com/a/DHexx#4I1WrPY

and they talk about the replay .........unbelivebal
this guys now come in to save it ? havent they been coding the hf?

the advice for the masses to stay safe from a replay attack is to stay away from etc.
but the devs already collected there free money in etc and sold them
but if every one does that now its a risk for there project ?

[notbatman]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

[roselee]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

who will force them ? vitalik and co?  and how ? etc already said no to a hf when vitalik asked them.

thats about how to deal with it as i understand one has to hf again 

https://medium.com/@timonrapp/how-to-deal-with-the-ethereum-replay-attack-3fd44074a6d8#.z46p3gmbh

[Benarand]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

[Fatman3001]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

who will force them ? vitalik and co?  and how ? etc already said no to a hf when vitalik asked them.

thats about how to deal with it as i understand one has to hf again 

https://medium.com/@timonrapp/how-to-deal-with-the-ethereum-replay-attack-3fd44074a6d8#.z46p3gmbh

When the BTC Core fans ditch etc you will have to appeal to eth users. And they will probably find that they had a lot of etc and lost them. If that is not a worry for the ETC team then that should be a red flag for anyone looking into it.

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

That's how I perceive their attitude as well. Which means they can't copy/paste Ethereum much longer. Nor will it be easy to find dedicated devs.

[noobtrader]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

i think thats would be difficult with mining difficulty bomb, they need to use pos or remove diff bomb.  i want to hear what feasible option besides HF

[dumana]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

i think thats would be difficult with mining difficulty bomb, they need to use pos or remove diff bomb.  i want to hear what feasible option besides HF

The mining bomb will happen in October or November this year. So it will be a dead coin by that time.

[suchmoon]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

That's how I perceive their attitude as well. Which means they can't copy/paste Ethereum much longer. Nor will it be easy to find dedicated devs.

Except that it's not actually true:

https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

We believe in decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless blockchains. We believe in the original vision of Ethereum as a world computer you can't shut down, running irreversible smart contracts. We believe in a strong separation of concerns, where system forks are only possible in order to correct actual platform bugs, not to bail out failed contracts and special interests. We believe in censorship-resistant platform that can be actually trusted - by anyone.

[Fatman3001]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

That's how I perceive their attitude as well. Which means they can't copy/paste Ethereum much longer. Nor will it be easy to find dedicated devs.

Except that it's not actually true:

https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

We believe in decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless blockchains. We believe in the original vision of Ethereum as a world computer you can't shut down, running irreversible smart contracts. We believe in a strong separation of concerns, where system forks are only possible in order to correct actual platform bugs, not to bail out failed contracts and special interests. We believe in censorship-resistant platform that can be actually trusted - by anyone.

Yes it is. That is how I perceive the attitude of the community. Whether it's their official policy or not.

[Fatman3001]

tomothy pointed me to this article:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-ethereum-hard-fork-spawned-a-shaky-rebellion-ethereum-classic-etc-eth

[Slydrule]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

That's how I perceive their attitude as well. Which means they can't copy/paste Ethereum much longer. Nor will it be easy to find dedicated devs.

Except that it's not actually true:

https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

We believe in decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless blockchains. We believe in the original vision of Ethereum as a world computer you can't shut down, running irreversible smart contracts. We believe in a strong separation of concerns, where system forks are only possible in order to correct actual platform bugs, not to bail out failed contracts and special interests. We believe in censorship-resistant platform that can be actually trusted - by anyone.

Two things I noticed on the web site.  First, the site does not mention that principles include allowing thieves to keep their ill-gotten gains and that investors can trust that their investments will be completely depleted if taken by thieves - which the blockchain will tolerate.  The code is the law which mean investors have to trust the code will not be exploited for nefarious purposes.   I am not sure how you can claim you want it to be trustworthy at the same time, but maybe other investors can figure that out.

I also noticed you take donations in ETH.  How ironic.

[suchmoon]

Two things I noticed on the web site.  First, the site does not mention that principles include allowing thieves to keep their ill-gotten gains and that investors can trust that their investments will be completely depleted if taken by thieves - which the blockchain will tolerate.  The code is the law which mean investors have to trust the code will not be exploited for nefarious purposes.   I am not sure how you can claim you want it to be trustworthy at the same time, but maybe other investors can figure that out.

I also noticed you take donations in ETH.  How ironic.

You seem to be lying, I don't take donations.

The "thieves" argument is moot in the case of ETH/ETC. The Ethereum foundation was not compelled by any kind of law enforcement to take action against those "thieves" and it doesn't appear that any due process took place. The fork is an attempt to have it both ways: "let's do law and order like IRL", but also "we will use the code as law to bring justice and move the tokens the way we feel is right".

Here is what should have happened it this wasn't a huge mess of overlapping interests between investors, bagholders, the foundation, slock.it, etc:

The DAO investors find out their investment is at risk. They ask ETH to help. ETH says either "sorry, not our problem, talk to slock.it" or - if they're feeling polite that day - "sorry, there is something we could do (a fork) but it's against our own rules". At which point the DAO investors sue the foundation and/or slock.it, get a court order (or not), fork happens (or not). Not that it would be much less controversial but at least the "law and order" argument would make more sense.

But that sounds slow and inefficient, so fuck it, let's just do justice our own way. Right?

[FruitBucket]

Two things I noticed on the web site.  First, the site does not mention that principles include allowing thieves to keep their ill-gotten gains and that investors can trust that their investments will be completely depleted if taken by thieves - which the blockchain will tolerate.  The code is the law which mean investors have to trust the code will not be exploited for nefarious purposes.   I am not sure how you can claim you want it to be trustworthy at the same time, but maybe other investors can figure that out.

I also noticed you take donations in ETH.  How ironic.

You seem to be lying, I don't take donations.

The "thieves" argument is moot in the case of ETH/ETC. The Ethereum foundation was not compelled by any kind of law enforcement to take action against those "thieves" and it doesn't appear that any due process took place. The fork is an attempt to have it both ways: "let's do law and order like IRL", but also "we will use the code as law to bring justice and move the tokens the way we feel is right".

Here is what should have happened it this wasn't a huge mess of overlapping interests between investors, bagholders, the foundation, slock.it, etc:

The DAO investors find out their investment is at risk. They ask ETH to help. ETH says either "sorry, not our problem, talk to slock.it" or - if they're feeling polite that day - "sorry, there is something we could do (a fork) but it's against our own rules". At which point the DAO investors sue the foundation and/or slock.it, get a court order (or not), fork happens (or not). Not that it would be much less controversial but at least the "law and order" argument would make more sense.

But that sounds slow and inefficient, so fuck it, let's just do justice our own way. Right?

It is not compelled by law enforcement to hard fork, it is compelled by the community. Did you see the vote?

[notbatman]

So if ETC is forced to hard fork will exchanges start listing the old chain as Ethereum Classic Original (ECO)?

ETC will never hard fork, it is their principle. If it hard fork, it will be a dead coin. So it will have only one chain.

That's how I perceive their attitude as well. Which means they can't copy/paste Ethereum much longer. Nor will it be easy to find dedicated devs.

Except that it's not actually true:

https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

We believe in decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless blockchains. We believe in the original vision of Ethereum as a world computer you can't shut down, running irreversible smart contracts. We believe in a strong separation of concerns, where system forks are only possible in order to correct actual platform bugs, not to bail out failed contracts and special interests. We believe in censorship-resistant platform that can be actually trusted - by anyone.

Two things I noticed on the web site.  First, the site does not mention that principles include allowing thieves to keep their ill-gotten gains and that investors can trust that their investments will be completely depleted if taken by thieves - which the blockchain will tolerate.  The code is the law which mean investors have to trust the code will not be exploited for nefarious purposes.   I am not sure how you can claim you want it to be trustworthy at the same time, but maybe other investors can figure that out.

I also noticed you take donations in ETH.  How ironic.

Wasn't it a platform bug in the solidity compiler that was exploited and allowed the DAO theft to occur in the first place? Wasn't there plenty of warning that the DAO and ETH are beta and in under current development?

ETC is nothing more than an attempt to derail ETH development and justify theft.

[suchmoon]

It is not compelled by law enforcement to hard fork, it is compelled by the community. Did you see the vote?

I did, it was low turnout and contentious. The amount of hashrate in ETC as well as its exchange rate reflects the dissent. Why is it that ETH supporters still seem to have a problem with ETC? I'm trying to understand that since my first post in this thread but I'm not getting any closer. The "law and order" argument clearly doesn't make sense since ETH didn't really follow the law. Community was split since before the fork. What else?

[Ekanenf]

It is not compelled by law enforcement to hard fork, it is compelled by the community. Did you see the vote?

I did, it was low turnout and contentious. The amount of hashrate in ETC as well as its exchange rate reflects the dissent. Why is it that ETH supporters still seem to have a problem with ETC? I'm trying to understand that since my first post in this thread but I'm not getting any closer. The "law and order" argument clearly doesn't make sense since ETH didn't really follow the law. Community was split since before the fork. What else?

From the mining hash, you can say that 90% of the miners support the ETH. But miners chase profits.

[Master_dandosha]

Wasn't it a platform bug in the solidity compiler that was exploited and allowed the DAO theft to occur in the first place? Wasn't there plenty of warning that the DAO and ETH are beta and in under current development?

ETC is nothing more than an attempt to derail ETH development and justify theft.

+1 

so you guess etc is going to collapse soon ..

[Slydrule]

Two things I noticed on the web site.  First, the site does not mention that principles include allowing thieves to keep their ill-gotten gains and that investors can trust that their investments will be completely depleted if taken by thieves - which the blockchain will tolerate.  The code is the law which mean investors have to trust the code will not be exploited for nefarious purposes.   I am not sure how you can claim you want it to be trustworthy at the same time, but maybe other investors can figure that out.

I also noticed you take donations in ETH.  How ironic.

You seem to be lying, I don't take donations.

When I said "you take donations from ETH" I meant the ETC foundation or whatever you call it - I assumed since you posted the link you represented the foundation.  In any case the website has an address for ETH donations.   That's no lie.

[Mrpumperitis]

 Microsoft Azure only on ETH 

[suchmoon]

Wasn't it a platform bug in the solidity compiler that was exploited and allowed the DAO theft to occur in the first place? Wasn't there plenty of warning that the DAO and ETH are beta and in under current development?

ETC is nothing more than an attempt to derail ETH development and justify theft.

No, it was a problem in the DAO itself, not in Solidity.

http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/06/18/analysis-of-the-dao-exploit/

There are some claims that the language design is at fault but there were no changes to it in the fork. The fork was about transferring the DAO funds into a refund-only contract, not about fixing anything in the code.

When I said "you take donations from ETH" I meant the ETC foundation or whatever you call it - I assumed since you posted the link you represented the foundation.  In any case the website has an address for ETH donations.   That's no lie.

Nice backpedaling. I post a lot of links, doesn't mean I represent or take donations for e.g. hackingdistributed.com above.