[Havelock] Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative (BDD)

[twentyseventy]

@twentyseventy:

Sorry for the OT, but I'm curious: Is the secret pr0nz website you were pimping still paying you?  

Have you been stiffed like everyone else, or is it totally legit like you claimed?  Could you drop by that thread and calm the folks down?
Thx

Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has been 'stiffed'. The next payment to shareholders is due on the 15th, as it has been every month, and I fully expect that ABitInterested will continue to pay, as promised.

[twentyseventy]

Period 2, Day 9 Report - February 13, 2014

Balance Post Divs: BTC 310.11380269

Total Units: 1662

NAV/U: BTC 0.18659073

[twentyseventy]

Period 2, Day 10 Report - February 14, 2014

Balance Post Divs: BTC 311.20798482

Total Units: 1676

NAV/U: BTC 0.18568495


For the record, any trades that take place will be recorded using Havelock's timestamp (they list the current time in the top right-hand corner of the site as well). In the event that there is a time-zone difference between Havelock and Eastern Time (US), the time in New York City, New York will prevail.

Difficulty looks like it will be increasing sometime Sunday night / Monday morning, which would lead to a SELL dividend being issued Monday.

[twentyseventy]

Havelock's login screen is currently redirecting to a blank page, so I wasn't able to login and exchange the shares before the MINE dividend paid at noon. All EXCH shares purchased before Noon will be bought back for their respective dividends that should have been paid once I can log in and do so.

[twentyseventy]

Okay, Havelock is back up after some upgrades apparently. All EXCH holders who missed the MINE dividend at Noon had their EXCH shares bought back at the price of the MINE dividends, so everyone is now whole. Hopefully the automated exchange will be functional soon and this will no longer be an issue 

Period 2, Day 11 Report - February 15, 2014

Balance Post Divs: BTC 319.58588428

Total Units: 1728

NAV/U: BTC 0.18494553

[junkonator]

You haven't yet sent back the exchanged MINE and SELL though :/

[twentyseventy]

You haven't yet sent back the exchanged MINE and SELL though :/

Hey guys, sorry about that. I was so focused on ensuring that everyone had their dividends that I missed sending shares to those four holders. All has been exchanged now, let me know if anyone else has any problems. Again, this will be a moot point once the auto exchange is up. Thanks for the understanding-

[junkonator]

Thanks for resolving that so quickly! 

[ABitInterested]

twentyseventy,

I am sorry that you adopted my trolls. mainline has done nothing but run his mouth and make up lies since he found his way to my thread, the others just seem to be paranoid due to his noise.

For everyone else here, I am the "secret porn website dude" and this is the only forum name I use. Trolls are mad about things I made clear from day one. I have done everything I said I would do and nothing I said I wouldn't so this manufactured drama is even more ridiculous in that context. All of this is documented and can be confirmed in a few minutes.

Also, I don't even understand what is being offered in this thread. Of all the people I could be accused of being they picked this one? Hahaha

[twentyseventy]

Thanks for resolving that so quickly! 

You're very welcome!

twentyseventy,

I am sorry that you adopted my trolls. mainline has done nothing but run his mouth and make up lies since he found his way to my thread, the others just seem to be paranoid due to his noise.

For everyone else here, I am the "secret porn website dude" and this is the only forum name I use. Trolls are mad about things I made clear from day one. I have done everything I said I would do and nothing I said I wouldn't so this manufactured drama is even more ridiculous in that context. All of this is documented and can be confirmed in a few minutes.

Also, I don't even understand what is being offered in this thread. Of all the people I could be accused of being they picked this one? Hahaha

Hah, it's alright - it seems that there will be trolls targeting everyone that frequents this subforum, especially fund issuers.

[EduardoDeCastro]

...

twentyseventy,

I am sorry that you adopted my trolls. mainline has done nothing but run his mouth and make up lies since he found his way to my thread, the others just seem to be paranoid due to his noise.

For everyone else here, I am the "secret porn website dude" and this is the only forum name I use. Trolls are mad about things I made clear from day one. I have done everything I said I would do and nothing I said I wouldn't so this manufactured drama is even more ridiculous in that context. All of this is documented and can be confirmed in a few minutes.

Also, I don't even understand what is being offered in this thread. Of all the people I could be accused of being they picked this one? Hahaha

Hah, it's alright - it seems that there will be trolls targeting everyone that frequents this subforum, especially fund issuers.

You gotta admit...  Even for bitcoin securities, "I have a porn site but I won't tell you the addy, so give me money" is pretty hilarious.

You -- both the scammers and the suckers -- pretty much *invite* the government to step in and regulate the shit out of bitcoin.
As much as I liek your wacky financial antics, it's time you moved on.

[twentyseventy]

Period 2, Day 12 Report - February 16, 2014

Balance Post Divs: BTC 339.62774428

Total Units: 1841

NAV/U: BTC 0.18448003


Difficulty increase will be tonight, so the MINE dividend will be reduced to the new rate tomorrow at Noon and the SELL dividend for Period 2 will be paid tomorrow as well.

Just a reminder NOT to leave SELL bids up tomorrow, as the value of SELL falls by exactly the amount of dividends paid out 

[junkonator]

Please enlighten us twenty or others who were there the first time around!

twentyseventy how exactly is the payment of B.SELL dividends and the setup of the new price of B.EXCH happening? You already said that you can't lock B.SELL but what about B.EXCH?

Will you close trading on B.EXCH? Or do you leave up B.EXCH and simply put the lower order beneath?

[eltopo]

This was answered in #119?

[junkonator]

Don't know how I missed that :/
Thanks topo.

This was answered in #119?

[Auburn]

Hello:

Another newbie question:

You consistently inform us that the value of B.SELL falls by exactly the amount of the B.SELL dividend paid on the difficulty change date.  I see that its market price fluctuates, as one would expect.  But how do B.SELL holders make any profit if its value only falls and never rises?  For example, if the issuing  price is 0.12 and if dividends are exactly 0.02 each period, in 6 periods SELL would become worthless, and I presume its market price would then approach zero.  What am I missing here?  Obviously some of the NAV/unit for B.EXCH must be transferred from B.MINE shares (if B.MINE holders make a poor bet)  to B.SELL shares, but how? 

Many thanks!

[Rannasha]

Hello:

Another newbie question:

You consistently inform us that the value of B.SELL falls by exactly the amount of the B.SELL dividend paid on the difficulty change date.  I see that its market price fluctuates, as one would expect.  But how do B.SELL holders make any profit if its value only falls and never rises?  For example, if the issuing  price is 0.12 and if dividends are exactly 0.02 each period, in 6 periods SELL would become worthless, and I presume its market price would then approach zero.  What am I missing here?  Obviously some of the NAV/unit for B.EXCH must be transferred from B.MINE shares (if B.MINE holders make a poor bet)  to B.SELL shares, but how? 

Many thanks!

The instant drop in price after a dividend is only temporary. The market price of B.SELL will then adjust to what people believe the future development of the difficulty will be. If people believe B.SELL is undervalued, it will slowly creep up in price between dividend-payouts. If people believe it is overpriced, it will gradually go down.

Buyers of B.SELL make a profit if they purchase B.SELL at a price that is lower than the total amount of dividends accumulated.

[redmetal]

It seems the dividend for sell will be 0.0237 

[twentyseventy]

Hello:

Another newbie question:

You consistently inform us that the value of B.SELL falls by exactly the amount of the B.SELL dividend paid on the difficulty change date.  I see that its market price fluctuates, as one would expect.  But how do B.SELL holders make any profit if its value only falls and never rises?  For example, if the issuing  price is 0.12 and if dividends are exactly 0.02 each period, in 6 periods SELL would become worthless, and I presume its market price would then approach zero.  What am I missing here?  Obviously some of the NAV/unit for B.EXCH must be transferred from B.MINE shares (if B.MINE holders make a poor bet)  to B.SELL shares, but how? 

Many thanks!

There are four main ways with which you can earn BTC via trading/holding BDD shares. One of those ways to get SELL for less than will be paid out to it in dividends (the same is actually true with MINE).

Both MINE and SELL will go to about zero over time, at which time either MINE or both MINE and SELL will be issued their final dividends and be repurchased by the fund. MINE has a minimum threshold, but that value is very small compared to the trading price at this time. MINE will be paid out based on the Difficulty and the dividend formula. SELL gets dividends when there is excess capital in the fund that it no longer needed on hand to pay MINE dividends.

Basically, all of the fund's capital on hand will be paid out over time to MINE and SELL - if you purchase a SELL share and you, over time, are paid out more in dividends than you purchased the share for, you will earn BTC. The same holds true with MINE, if you get it at a price under the amount that it will pay out over time, you've come out net positive.

The trick here, of course, is to estimate how the Difficulty will change and adjust your estimates over time, as necessary.

It seems the dividend for sell will be 0.0237 

Yes, based on the NAV/U from Noon today, the SELL dividend would be ~0.0237 - the actual dividend will be a bit higher due to new sales of EXCH. Glad to see someone doing the math on it 

[redmetal]

Quick question, If I bought B.SELL now would it be entitled to the dividend? thats getting paid today?

Thanks
Red