Trust system abuse / DT2 member Vod is provably dishonestly rating people

[OgNasty]

I spoke with the people at the Barrett-Jackson auction house today. While talking, I asked them this question. Their representative laughed at me and assured me that no owners would be permitted to bid on their own items.

Did the Barrett-Jackson auction house representative tell you why owners wouldn't be permitted bidding?

No.  They were pretty dismissive and I would have felt foolish pressing the issue.  Anyone could give them a call and ask for clarification.  They aren't hard to find.

OgNasty, we both know that half of the DT are inactive, been for years. It's not like they're going to come read this single case of wrongdoing, and it's not like they're going to remove Vod because of it. Vod has done much good for the forum, so is one wrongdoing worth it to nullify all that, in their eyes?

I would disagree about half of DT1 being inactive.  It looks to me like only 1 member is inactive, and another hasn't signed in since May.  I can't speculate on whether or not those who have added Vod to DT2 would consider this allegation to be enough to remove him.  As stated, I'd recommend reaching out to the user that added him and ask.

LIST OF THE "DT DOZEN" (trademark pending, j/k):

1	theymos
2	dooglus
3	Tomatocage
4	Maged
5	OgNasty
6	Cyrus
7	Blazed
8	SaltySpitoon
9	philipma1957
10	HostFat
11	hilariousandco
12	dserrano5

[suchmoon]

He placed the "Anduck" in that quote.

Which he removed and added an explanation:

(I originally thought Anduck has posted this, but it turned out to be an example message from another user.)

Even you weren't sure 100% at one point:

Source? I vaguely remember something, but not that. I've not deleted any of my posts.

And here Vod is denying attributing the quote to me.

Again, a post that Vod edited to explain what happened:

Looks like the OP was suggesting a post he believes Anadduck should make.  :/

Just give it up already, you're grasping at very flimsy straws here.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Why are you not commenting the obvious wrongdoing by Vod (the latter part of his rating), but are still commenting the rating for the first part?

For one thing, I haven't gone back to that original thread where you and Vod were discussing this after he'd left his feedback.  I recall getting the impression when I first read it that there was something fishy afoot but don't remember what it was. 

For another thing, not every drama that happens on bitcointalk immediately becomes my issue.  I don't get paid to be on DT, and most of the tags I leave on users are for account selling/buying.  I'm not required to right every wrong here, and it wouldn't be possible to do so anyway. 

I have great respect for Vod, as he's done outstanding work in warning people about scammers through the feedback he's left and if you think he's left feedback (or part of a feedback) unfairly, ultimately that's between you and him.  I'm not going to neg Vod if he made a mistake in one of his feeedbacks, nor would I leave you a counter-positive as actmyname did, because I think what you did in your auction was wrong.

We could argue till the end of time whether bidding on your own auctions is ethical, but I'm not going to change your mind on that and I'm not changing my opinion of it either. 

The Auction section really should devise a set of rules--instead of "suggestions"--that members need to abide by so as to avoid situations like this in the future.  We've got people from all over the world, and a practice that's acceptable in Finland might be baffling (or considered untrustworthy) to other members from other countries.  There are no written community standards or rules in place (as far as I can see), and that should be rectified.

[Anduck]

Just give it up already, you're grasping at very flimsy straws here.

See this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg39392188#msg39392188
Anyway, funny thing is that this is the least to complain about Vod's actions. And this is the only thing you grip on off those. Regardless of his semi-backpedaling, faking an attribution of some random quote is totally idiotic. He is claiming that someone else fake-attributed it and he just fell for it. ("Not a fake quote by Vod" when everyone can see that he placed that "Anduck" in there!)

[Anduck]

Why are you not commenting the obvious wrongdoing by Vod (the latter part of his rating), but are still commenting the rating for the first part?

For one thing, I haven't gone back to that original thread where you and Vod were discussing this after he'd left his feedback.  I recall getting the impression when I first read it that there was something fishy afoot but don't remember what it was. 

For another thing, not every drama that happens on bitcointalk immediately becomes my issue.  I don't get paid to be on DT, and most of the tags I leave on users are for account selling/buying.  I'm not required to right every wrong here, and it wouldn't be possible to do so anyway. 

I have great respect for Vod, as he's done outstanding work in warning people about scammers through the feedback he's left and if you think he's left feedback (or part of a feedback) unfairly, ultimately that's between you and him.  I'm not going to neg Vod if he made a mistake in one of his feeedbacks, nor would I leave you a counter-positive as actmyname did, because I think what you did in your auction was wrong.

We could argue till the end of time whether bidding on your own auctions is ethical, but I'm not going to change your mind on that and I'm not changing my opinion of it either. 

The Auction section really should devise a set of rules--instead of "suggestions"--that members need to abide by so as to avoid situations like this in the future.  We've got people from all over the world, and a practice that's acceptable in Finland might be baffling (or considered untrustworthy) to other members from other countries.  There are no written community standards or rules in place (as far as I can see), and that should be rectified.

I mostly agree with your input here.

A member of DT has additional responsibility to act fairly when rating others, because those ratings carry additional weight (compared to non-DT). When a DT member acts unfairly and dishonestly, who should do what? Or should it just be ignored?

I also do respect Vod for the unquestionable work he has done to improve the forums. I disrespect him for acting dishonestly regarding this case between me and him, and him leveraging his DT position unfairly against me over a personal issue. Again, this auction has little to do with the rating Vod placed on me. The rating is a result of blackmailing attempt Vod did against me, with a mix of huge ego.

And I do agree with you about the auction section clarifications, even though that's off-topic for this thread.

[suchmoon]

Just give it up already, you're grasping at very flimsy straws here.

See this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg39392188#msg39392188
Anyway, funny thing is that this is the least to complain about Vod's actions. And this is the only thing you grip on off those. Regardless of his semi-backpedaling, faking an attribution of some random quote is totally idiotic. He is claiming that someone else fake-attributed it and he just fell for it. ("Not a fake quote by Vod" when everyone can see that he placed that "Anduck" in there!)

For fuck's sake... yes, I saw that, I was there, remember? Some posters mistakenly interpreted a quote. It was clearly not made up by Vod - there is an unedited post from another user proving that. Vod actually went back to edit the posts where he made the incorrect attribution and explained what happened. That's more than most people would have done, which is typically along the lines "oh shit, LOL" and the thread continues. How you could interpret that situation as something maliciously made up is about as baffling as your insistence on self-bidding being totally never ever dishonest.

You're never wrong, are you? Just checking.

[Anduck]

You're never wrong, are you? Just checking.

Vod was the one who added "Anduck" in there. Vod did not write the quoted text, he attributed it to me. He added that "Anduck" there leading to people think it was said by me. Right? Denying that is stupid, as it's all visible there.

Normally such wouldn't really be seen as malicious, as he after some time acknowledged it as a mistake to think it was said by me, yet he doesn't say a thing about him actually faking the attribution. He admits he thought it was said by me, but not that he was the one who actually did the faking too.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You're never wrong, are you? Just checking.

Nope. When met with overwhelming consensus on this thread and in the original auction thread that what he did was shady, as well as being told that real auctioneers laughed at the mere suggestion and shown laws that specifically forbid the practice, he comes back with statements like this:

It should also be clear that self-bidding is in no way dishonesty or scamming

Honestly, if you had come out and said "Hey guys, I made a mistake, won't happen again" I would probably be on your side here given the 2.5 year period since the auction and your otherwise good trading history and trust ratings. Your repeated refusal to even consider any point of view other than your own, despite overwhelming consensus against you, is really not doing you any favors.

[Anduck]

You're never wrong, are you? Just checking.

Nope. When met with overwhelming consensus on this thread and in the original auction thread that what he did was shady, as well as being told that real auctioneers laughed at the mere suggestion and shown laws that specifically forbid the practice, he comes back with statements like this:

It should also be clear that self-bidding is in no way dishonesty or scamming

Honestly, if you had come out and said "Hey guys, I made a mistake, won't happen again" I would probably be on your side here given the 2.5 year period since the auction and your otherwise good trading history and trust ratings. Your repeated refusal to even consider any point of view other than your own, despite overwhelming consensus against you, is really not doing you any favors.

I actually did say this. It was a mistake and won't happen again. It's however not scamming or dishonesty! And still not related to the misuse of DT done by Vod.

[TMAN]

No, I don't remember saying such. Looks like a fake quote me. Vod, wtf?

Bad choice of verb from Suchmoon.

Do you remember POSTING the following words at anytime in the past, whether you deleted them or not?   

Dear community I have done a mistake by bidding on my own public bidding thread and did not realize that it was wrong.

However now I have realized, it was unethical and should not have done it.

I apologize to all participants and to the community publicly. I will be more open and will clearly announce my intentions properly before any bidding I start or auctions I may place.

Now to Vod, i was little stubborn before, but now since I have realized can we please neutralize the trust. I already promised it won’t happen again.

and that was Vod giving you a get out of jail Anduck...

only just seen it in the thread referenced above.

[Anduck]

No, I don't remember saying such. Looks like a fake quote me. Vod, wtf?

Bad choice of verb from Suchmoon.

Do you remember POSTING the following words at anytime in the past, whether you deleted them or not?   

Dear community I have done a mistake by bidding on my own public bidding thread and did not realize that it was wrong.

However now I have realized, it was unethical and should not have done it.

I apologize to all participants and to the community publicly. I will be more open and will clearly announce my intentions properly before any bidding I start or auctions I may place.

Now to Vod, i was little stubborn before, but now since I have realized can we please neutralize the trust. I already promised it won’t happen again.

and that was Vod giving you a get out of jail Anduck...

only just seen it in the thread referenced above.

It was a good suggestion by shahzadafzal, except that I can't agree with it being unethical. It's not unethical for auctioneer to bid on an auction. Other parts of that suggestion I've already said in one form or another, and agree with.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's not unethical for auctioneer to bid on an auction.

In your opinion. An opinion that is not shared by the rest of the forum.

[suchmoon]

You're never wrong, are you? Just checking.

Vod was the one who added "Anduck" in there. Vod did not write the quoted text, he attributed it to me. He added that "Anduck" there leading to people think it was said by me. Right? Denying that is stupid, as it's all visible there.

Normally such wouldn't really be seen as malicious, as he after some time acknowledged it as a mistake to think it was said by me, yet he doesn't say a thing about him actually faking the attribution. He admits he thought it was said by me, but not that he was the one who actually did the faking too.

After some time? As opposed to getting a time machine and fixing it before it happened?

I take it as a "yes" then. You're never wrong.

[Anduck]

After some time? As opposed to getting a time machine and fixing it before it happened?

I take it as a "yes" then. You're never wrong.

Vod did bad and all you do is defend him no matter what, simultaneously attacking me of course? Got nothing else to say, really? He never acknowledged faking the quote himself, quite the contrary. This is all in there. The fact is that Vod never acknowledged that he faked it himself. He simply said "Looks like the OP was suggesting a post he believes Anadduck should make" and doesn't bother to say that he was the one who attributed the quote to be said by "Anduck". Can you see how Vod is trying to pass the fault on the other guy, not acknowledging he was the one who did it? Funny how this intellectual dishonesty works. Also funny how you are now rating me.

[suchmoon]

Vod did bad and all you do is defend him no matter what, simultaneously attacking me of course? Got nothing else to say, really? He never acknowledged faking the quote himself, quite the contrary. This is all in there. The fact is that Vod never acknowledged that he faked it himself. He simply said "Looks like the OP was suggesting a post he believes Anadduck should make" and doesn't bother to say that he was the one who attributed the quote to be said by "Anduck". Can you see how Vod is trying to pass the fault on the other guy, not acknowledging he was the one who did it? Funny how this intellectual dishonesty works. Also funny how you are now rating me.

You're utterly deluded. There is no conspiracy with that quote is all I'm saying but it turned out into a very good indicator of how your logic works. If you don't like something it must be malicious. If somebody doesn't like what you did or said they must be wrong.

Also funny how you are now rating me.

Jamaican Fried Chicken, I'm going out of my way to not rate you in any way even though I'm starting to lean towards considering you untrustworthy. You seriously gonna bitch about a neutral now?

Anyways, I'll leave you to it. I think I'd rather go talk to my garage wall, it's more upright and probably less stubborn.

[Thule]

Vod just abused his power as DT2 member to discredit me with false claims.

He wrote as negativ feedback that i claimed that ThePharmacist scammed me out of 100 BTC !!!!! and that this is a lie.
I never posted something like that and thats clearly a direct attack from VOD with false claims to discredit someone.


Noone is going to tell me that he just put these 100 BTC scam accusation by accident

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Vod just abused his power as DT2 member to discredit me with false claims.

He wrote as negativ feedback that i claimed that ThePharmacist scammed me out of 100 BTC !!!!! and that this is a lie.
I never posted something like that and thats clearly a direct attack from VOD with false claims to discredit someone.


Noone is going to tell me that he just put these 100 BTC scam accusation by accident

As I just wrote in another thread, you left me a neg on 1/27/18 and under the "amount risked" you put 100BTC.  That's where Vod's claim comes from.  Stop denying you did this and that Vod is lying about you.  You fucked up.  You, and no one else.

[Thule]

What a poor try to discredit someone


In my comment there is clearly written

"Calling me scammer and spammer without proof.
Total idiot defending Lauda

I guess part of their team"


Where do you see there me claiming you scammed me ?


You faggots are clearly looking for anything to accuse somebody to discredit

Your feedback was back from january.It means 9-10 months ago where you and VOD clearly saw these comments.
And now you claim i accused you for scamming ?Funny you never mentioned it earlier you faggot

[Vod]

And now you claim i accused you for scamming ?Funny you never mentioned it earlier you faggot

Why are you so scared of gay people?   

[Anduck]

Vod still has blocked my PM, so there is no way to even try to resolve this in private -- as was the case before. His rating to me is unfair and dishonest in many ways, a result of his threat/blackmail and big ego.

The current situation is beyond ridiculous. DT1 members who have added Vod on DT2 are not acting about it, because 1) it's just one case 2) they're inactive 3) this case is too complex, takes a lot time to objectively comprehend what happened 4) they simply don't care.

Leads to the current situation: Vod is on DT2 (added by 3x DT1) and won't be removed no matter what he does as long as he only does unfair and bad ratings occasionally and against people who can't be vocal against him. And even then nothing will happen, because DT is so very stagnant.

So what are the options as Vod does not want to resolve this in any way?
1) Change DT dramatically, ie. remove it completely. I would welcome that change...
2) Remove Vod from DT. (Not going to happen as described above.)
3) Add me to DT which would probably make Vod want to resolve this. That happened when Vod thought I was on DT, he was very eager to resolve it. When he found out I was not on DT, his eagerness changed to blocking me.

DT is not meant to be some elite list. It's meant to guard people from getting scammed. Vod's rating towards me has nothing to do with any sort of trustworthiness, as you can go see. Vod stated he didn't believe I did anything untrustworthy. "Suddenly" his opinion changed when *I* didn't want to do as he says, ie. remove my rating towards him. This was when he thought my rating towards him counted (ie was in "trusted feedback"). How in any way is that correct use of the trust system, yet alone correct use of DT ratings??