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Author Topic: [ANN] [MINT] Mintcoin (POS / 5%) [NO ICO] [Fair distro, community maintained]  (Read 1343448 times)
coolbeans94
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March 29, 2014, 05:34:03 AM
 #11081

i have discovered a flaw with current PoS implementation

you can easily do a 51% attack with PoS blocks without needing large holdings

since PoS blocks are generated on a coin age basis, you could create TXO's delayed by a time offset at the minimum TXO cost for a future attack period

so after creating 10000 TXO of 1 MINT separated by 0.5 seconds to make sure 60 consecutive blocks are generated at repeated interval by your wallet 20 days in the future, the attack would last 1 hour and 40 minutes

enough to put the security and function of a coin in question



couple that with the fact the difficulty calculation includes PoS blocks, that would mean difficulty would jump to stratospheric levels making it impossible to mine PoW blocks

are people really not concerned about this?


YOU CAN 51% ATTACK ANY POS COIN WITHOUT THE NEED FOR 51% OF SUPPLY OR ANY PoW HASHRATE AT ALL
Not concerned because it is not true.  Go ahead and try it if you think it is so easy.


i am not interested in doing an attack, but you should be worried that it is doable.
go over the logic


THIS IS FIXABLE, BUT REQUIRES A HARD FORK
I don't think so, but for arguments sake, what's the fix?

reduce weight of PoS blocks in difficulty calculation
set valid PoS block condition to use coin-days and not coin age, difference being coin-days is ammount of coins * coin age
That is what it uses coin days. It is ammount of coins * coin age. And it doesn't start until after 20 days of waiting.

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(2.) Moral order depends upon the harmonious action of all our powers, as
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dasomsos314
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March 29, 2014, 05:34:11 AM
 #11082

I told you guys are the real pumpers and dumpers Smiley just think optimtically and keep buying mints and never sell.

Yes,
Buy when the price bottom, sell when the price is high!
This is a good investment. Smiley Smiley
Anonymousg64
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March 29, 2014, 05:34:59 AM
 #11083

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.

you're just regurgitating what you have been told.


IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LARGE YOUR STAKE IS FOR BLOCK GENERATION, STAKE SIZE ONLY IMPACTS HOW MANY COINS YOU GENERATE
coolbeans94
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March 29, 2014, 05:35:30 AM
 #11084

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.
No they don't need 51% of the coins, only 51% of the coin days.

(1.) Moral happiness depends upon moral order.
(2.) Moral order depends upon the harmonious action of all our powers, as
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stormia
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March 29, 2014, 05:36:38 AM
 #11085

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

wrong, you generate a PoS block as soon as you hit 20 days condition, the only limiting factor is whether your block is accepted quick enough to not become an orphan, in which case your wallet would try again

If it is an orphan, then you aren't getting the bloack are you?
coolbeans94
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March 29, 2014, 05:38:14 AM
 #11086

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.

you're just regurgitating what you have been told.


IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LARGE YOUR STAKE IS FOR BLOCK GENERATION, STAKE SIZE ONLY IMPACTS HOW MANY COINS YOU GENERATE
Then why does a small amount of coins take like 26 days to get block generation, while a large amount will mint on day 20 or 21? It does impact the timing.

(1.) Moral happiness depends upon moral order.
(2.) Moral order depends upon the harmonious action of all our powers, as
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stormia
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March 29, 2014, 05:40:51 AM
 #11087

He still hasnt posted this on the other PoS coin's forums yet (the ones that are currently more valuable, established, and have more to lose), even after I reminded him to if he really believes what he is saying. all he has to do is copy and paste his post.
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March 29, 2014, 05:43:41 AM
 #11088

BC is not secure because it is no longer a hybrid PoW/PoS coin. I don't know why anyone bothers with it.

What kind of demand are what the market!
It is people need it to realize people's transaction! Smiley Smiley
Anonymousg64
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March 29, 2014, 05:45:22 AM
 #11089

looking at the source to double check
deadmanwalking
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March 29, 2014, 05:47:19 AM
 #11090

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.

you're just regurgitating what you have been told.


IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LARGE YOUR STAKE IS FOR BLOCK GENERATION, STAKE SIZE ONLY IMPACTS HOW MANY COINS YOU GENERATE

Here ya go buddy: http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=401.0

This guy had the same idea as you, but he asked about it before he posted in HUGE RED LETTERS

By the way, if you could post that huge red letter thing over at blackcoin, that'd be great.

\
stormia
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March 29, 2014, 05:50:20 AM
 #11091

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" since you claim to know how. I don't know enough about these systems to dispute what you are saying on a technical level- other people on this forum already have that covered, anyways- but I know enough about human behavior to see what is happening here.
Anonymousg64
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March 29, 2014, 05:51:47 AM
 #11092

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.

you're just regurgitating what you have been told.


IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LARGE YOUR STAKE IS FOR BLOCK GENERATION, STAKE SIZE ONLY IMPACTS HOW MANY COINS YOU GENERATE

Here ya go buddy: http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=401.0

This guy had the same idea as you, but he asked about it before he posted in HUGE RED LETTERS

By the way, if you could post that huge red letter thing over at blackcoin, that'd be great.

that is not the same case
Anonymousg64
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March 29, 2014, 05:52:45 AM
 #11093

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" as you claim to know how.

less damage asking on smaller coin forum

there should be a few among this community who are well versed with how their coin works right?
stormia
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March 29, 2014, 05:54:29 AM
 #11094

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" as you claim to know how.

less damage asking on smaller coin forum

there should be a few among this community who are well versed with how their coin works right?

Less damage? If you were trying to prevent the most damage than you would PM the devs of the most valuable PoS coins... You would not go shouting out how to attack PoS coins. You would not be spreading uncertainty on a new coin which is most vulnerable to such fud.
deadmanwalking
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March 29, 2014, 05:54:49 AM
 #11095

He don't know. HE KNOW FUD
If you have more coins you get the blocks sooner, so to do 60 mints in a row is near impossible.

Ya, it doesn't have anything to do with the transactions. The more coins you have, the larger your stake. You would need 51% of coins to take over the blockchain. At which point the coin would become worthless because other people cannot use the coin. Therefore a person would have to be stupid (and rich) to do it.

I really don't know what this guy is talking about. People can google the literature on 51% attack and PoS if they like.

you're just regurgitating what you have been told.


IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LARGE YOUR STAKE IS FOR BLOCK GENERATION, STAKE SIZE ONLY IMPACTS HOW MANY COINS YOU GENERATE

Here ya go buddy: http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=401.0

This guy had the same idea as you, but he asked about it before he posted in HUGE RED LETTERS

By the way, if you could post that huge red letter thing over at blackcoin, that'd be great.

that is not the same case

It's exactly what you're talking about. Probably where you got the idea for your FUD. Sorry bruh, I got Google too.

Edit: Some more info http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=244.0

tl;dr  DEBUNKED

\
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March 29, 2014, 05:55:53 AM
 #11096

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" as you claim to know how.

less damage asking on smaller coin forum

there should be a few among this community who are well versed with how their coin works right?

I agree with others if you were sincere you would send a private message
coolbeans94
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March 29, 2014, 05:59:52 AM
 #11097

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" as you claim to know how.

less damage asking on smaller coin forum

there should be a few among this community who are well versed with how their coin works right?

It is coins * coin age. So the more coins you have and the longer you wait before activating minting, will affect how fast once you start minting it will succesfully get block generation. There are algorithms and randomness controls built into it so that the chance of one person being able to get even 10 consecutive blocks is remote, let alone 60. Overall, PoS/PoW is more secure against a perpetual 51% style attack. Just wait for your confirmations, that is what they are there for. Wait for 200 confirmations if you are worried about security.

(1.) Moral happiness depends upon moral order.
(2.) Moral order depends upon the harmonious action of all our powers, as
individuals and as members of society.
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March 29, 2014, 06:05:06 AM
 #11098

Hey anonymous64, I appreciate the thought man, just not the delivery.

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stormia
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March 29, 2014, 06:10:40 AM
 #11099

from http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=401.0

"There are a lot more PoS blocks than Pow. Once you mint a block with your coins they are locked in stake for 520 blocks, and the PoS mints with a transactions size ie if you get 1000PPC and the transaction is old enough it will mint and your PPCs will be locked in stake. There is no guarantee that the next block will be PoS so you have to own 51% PoW, and if you have a bunch of old coins there is no guarantee that you find all the PoS blocks in a row either ... So NO finding six blocks and double spending might risk the network rejecting your blocks and losing your stake..."

This does have me wondering how a pure PoS coin prevents this, since there IS a guarantee that the next block will be PoS...
Anonymousg64
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March 29, 2014, 06:10:44 AM
 #11100

looking at the source to double check

Why not inform the other PoS communities. You know, the ones that are worth more and have much more to lose- if you really believe this and you are really doing this in good faith. Also, if this really was a way to attack PoS and you wanted to help WHY WOULD YOU POST HOW TO ATTACK ON A PUBLIC FORUM!? You could simply pm the devs and let them know "how to fix it" as you claim to know how.

less damage asking on smaller coin forum

there should be a few among this community who are well versed with how their coin works right?

It is coins * coin age. So the more coins you have and the longer you wait before activating minting, will affect how fast once you start minting it will succesfully get block generation. There are algorithms and randomness controls built into it so that the chance of one person being able to get even 10 consecutive blocks is remote, let alone 60. Overall, PoS/PoW is more secure against a perpetual 51% style attack. Just wait for your confirmations, that is what they are there for. Wait for 200 confirmations if you are worried about security.

for PoS generation it is only coin age, if it was what you say, you would generate PoS from 1million MINT in 34seconds

im looking at the source atm, i may be wrong
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