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Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency  (Read 104625 times)
TiagoTiago
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September 28, 2011, 06:11:15 PM
 #221

If people don't like the premining, can't they tweak the client and miner proggies to consider those coins invalid?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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September 28, 2011, 06:18:19 PM
 #222

If people don't like the premining, can't they tweak the client and miner proggies to consider those coins invalid?

That's quite problematic and liable to break the thing in a variety of funky ways.

Putting the amount the community can agree upon as "being excessive" (and leaving me with amount that can be agreed upon to be "kinda okay for sponsoring development and maybe a teeeneeey-weeney tiny laundry if-anything-is-left") into a Faucet is both vastly more reliable and will have additional benefits in form of spreading around TBX and alleviating late-adopter griefs a little bit.

While I will be quite saddened should the amount eventually agreed upon slaughter the laundry prospects, I do agree that a Big Faucet is a thing of good.

So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

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September 28, 2011, 06:18:42 PM
 #223

yeah, sure, it enables you to hire programmers, organize PR and such (at no cost), but nobody else.  Cheesy

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September 28, 2011, 06:20:22 PM
 #224

yeah, sure, it enables you to hire programmers, organize PR and such (at no cost), but nobody else.  Cheesy

Well, since I will hire them to upgrade and maintain TBX system, that will cause whatever TBX you have to appreciate due to increase in reliability and functionality of system as a whole, and long-term maintenance of its pledge to remain GPU-hostile no matter what future GPUs might bring

DeBeers didn't "kill" diamond market, did they Wink ?

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September 28, 2011, 06:27:33 PM
 #225

...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet.

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September 28, 2011, 06:31:18 PM
 #226

...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet.


I like that method Cheesy
I'd leave say, a million, for the laundry too.
If enough people are using the laundry the coins will still be clean even with a smaller pool.
Maybe give the laundry 2m, the faucet 1m, and the rest of the various people with coins.

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September 28, 2011, 06:35:32 PM
 #227

...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet.


1) This process is by far more complex and is thus far harder for the community to effectively oversee, which is probably not something you want

2) If done "fairly", this process completely liquidates the fund, thus ensuring that not only will I not have any laundry, however tiny and pathetic, but that I will not, under any circumstances, be able to hire a developer to participate in further improvement / maintenance of Tenebrix, which would be very unfortunate

If you absolutely insist on exterminating the entire fund and not leaving a single shred for developing, let alone the laundry  Cry then we can just stuff the entire thing into the faucet since everyone and their dog will be able to go and verify that they are indeed all there, to the last unit.


I like that method Cheesy
I'd leave say, a million, for the laundry too.
If enough people are using the laundry the coins will still be clean even with a smaller pool.
Maybe give the laundry 2m, the faucet 1m, and the rest of the various people with coins.

Who will then scrutinize every block to ensure that all them TBX were distributed equally ? (same issue with another funky "million redistribution" scheme we all know about btw Smiley )

(and if you trust me enough to redistribute sanely, you have no reason not to trust me to manage a superfun-d sanely  Wink)

Also, if you are so gracious as to leave some aside for my poor little  Cry  laundry project, why don't you leave some for sponsoring future development ? Good coders don't grow on trees (at least not where I live ) and hiring some might be needed to patch Tenebrix against some future tough-ass GPUs or other unforeseen developments.

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September 28, 2011, 06:54:15 PM
 #228

Verification can be done programmatically.

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September 28, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
 #229

what would you say you need for dev?  1-2mill for a laundry sounds kinda ok(seems like something that would make you a massive target though).  Giving the rest to the early miners sounds nice..but a faucet would probably be better for tenebrix as a whole.
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September 28, 2011, 07:03:21 PM
 #230

Just make easy for people to fork and nullify your preminings, that way next time someone complains tell them they can try growing their own competing chain Smiley

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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September 28, 2011, 07:04:06 PM
 #231

Verification can be done programmatically.

Is such a kit readily available ?

Who is going to bother coding the kit (if you don't have one on hand) and for that matter, verify the kit's code ? Did anyone bother verifying CH's reimbursement scheme (did he release any details? )

I like the faucet approach because it is simple, reliable, beneficial to the project and very easy to verify by any concerned individual.

With it, we only have to agree whether all of the fund is to be "removed" from me



 and if no, how much should remain


Just make easy for people to fork and nullify your preminings, that way next time someone complains tell them they can try growing their own competing chain Smiley

Easier than it already is ?

I'll have to invent telepathic client Smiley

Seriously, it is less than a string worth of tweaking, but you will need to get enough CPUs onboard which given the number of folks in the channel might not be easy without, I dunno, buying twitterspam (which kinda requires some dodgy incentivization scheme, and thus defeats the whole point of operation)

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September 28, 2011, 07:26:01 PM
 #232

what would you say you need for dev?

Well, the thing is, not being clairvoyant I can't know how much will TBX be worth at a moment of hypothetical "OH SHIT complex PoW update is needed ASAP!!!" event, but given that I expected the dev part to keep development and maintenance of Tenebrix fed  for no less than good solid 4-6 years, I'd set aside at least 1-2 millions so that should some curious neo-GPU shit hit the fan, I have a big stash to mobilize some of them talented folks rapidly, but that's me.

 1-2mill for a laundry sounds kinda ok

Well, I dunno, my personal "dream target" was to be able to soak and wash no less than equivalent of million BTC in one "buffer cycle" (hence the somewhat massive buffer size), but alas, dreams are just  dreams Sad

Maybe you'd leave me at least 3  mils Smiley for them laundries and 2.5 mil for devs and "exchange and adopter bounties" (I think no one has much ire against "bounty to first service of type X adopting TBX", as opposed to twitterspam and other vaguely malevolent shit Smiley ?)


(seems like something that would make you a massive target though)

Man, I'm from Belarus. Being on this forum without a permit and using Tor is a criminal offense, but exchanging old weirdo-cryptothingies for new weirdo-cryptothingies is simply beyond local LEA thug comprehension, and our extradition system is so broke even our beloved Russian neighbors can't get anyone extradited from here.
 Giving the rest to the early miners sounds nice..but a faucet would probably be better for tenebrix as a whole.

Miners won't benefit from redistribution due to those redistributed coins entering actual market, of course unless they conspire to hoard, which is kinda tricky to coordinate  

Faucet on the other hand would definitely facilitate adoption and given that it will keep dripping years down the line, will somewhat alleviate late-adopter sentiments Smiley
Given that it will drip veeery small amounts and will have both google-ac and captcha (maybe several different ones) validation, faucet will not have a strong effect on the eventual price so miners would probably benefit from faucet the most

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September 28, 2011, 08:13:15 PM
 #233

I still don't understand why you need to premine? Can't you just start mining at block 0 like everybody else, since you started it of course you will get the first couple blocks, whatever, and then continue mining along with whoever wants to join you? Say 10 peple start mining right away, you still have over 10% of the total currency. Do you really need more than this?

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September 28, 2011, 08:16:49 PM
 #234

I still don't understand why you need to premine? Can't you just start mining at block 0 like everybody else, since you started it of course you will get the first couple blocks, whatever, and then continue mining along with whoever wants to join you? Say 10 peple start mining right away, you still have over 10% of the total currency. Do you really need more than this?

Errrrrr ummmm... I don't know how to put it, but did you read the part where I removed the "subsidy halving" behavior ?

That's in first post... and within the context of this fact the "10% of the total" statement seems...peculiar

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September 28, 2011, 09:19:38 PM
 #235

I have mined a block.  How long until I can spend it?
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September 28, 2011, 09:32:01 PM
 #236

I have mined a block.  How long until I can spend it?

Coinbase maturity is 150 blocks, but blocks are 1/2 of bitcoin's value (5 mins), so about 12 hours (currently will be less because blocks are still a bit faster than target value....Some serious CPU-crunchin' going on there)
 

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September 28, 2011, 09:40:10 PM
 #237

...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet.


I still like this idea as the best Smiley

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 28, 2011, 09:41:13 PM
 #238

...
So far, I have proposed donating 1.5m to the faucet, that amount cuts into my laundry without killing it and doesn't affect what I consider realistic potential development expenses, so if the kind folks herein are satisfied with that amount being withdrawn from my direct influence into the care of a project-beneficial automatic service, I will do it without much grief

How about this: You take all the Tenebrix accounts that have more or equal of 25 Tenebrix before block 8473 and you distribute evenly 5 million of your coins and leave 2.7 for the faucet.


I still like this idea as the best Smiley
+1

Either this, or they should be invalidated by a future optional update, if the new blockchain takes over, the coins are invalid.
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September 28, 2011, 09:43:16 PM
 #239

I have mined a block.  How long until I can spend it?

Coinbase maturity is 150 blocks, but blocks are 1/2 of bitcoin's value (5 mins), so about 12 hours (currently will be less because blocks are still a bit faster than target value....Some serious CPU-crunchin' going on there)
 

Thanks.  I didn't know that if one double clicks the transaction, all the info is displayed in a popup window.

On that note, the window is incorrect because it says that generated coins need to wait 120 blocks, rather than the correct 150.
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September 28, 2011, 09:50:45 PM
 #240

I have mined a block.  How long until I can spend it?

Coinbase maturity is 150 blocks, but blocks are 1/2 of bitcoin's value (5 mins), so about 12 hours (currently will be less because blocks are still a bit faster than target value....Some serious CPU-crunchin' going on there)
 

Thanks.  I didn't know that if one double clicks the transaction, all the info is displayed in a popup window.

On that note, the window is incorrect because it says that generated coins need to wait 120 blocks, rather than the correct 150.
It displays the blocks remaining, this means that there have been 30 blocks generated since you generated said block.
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