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Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency  (Read 104695 times)
michaelmclees
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October 05, 2011, 04:27:11 PM
 #541

More fail by BitcoinExpress. No wonder. CPU mining is here to stay  Tongue
Oops, you posted with the wrong account Wink
So Bulanula, why is it that your are so hostile to BitcoinExpress?

theory: He's a douche bag?

Hi Retard,

We'll see who's talking crap when CH/RS decides to put SC 2.0 on the table. A day or so ago he was here talking his usual line of garbage, showing us PS'd screen shots of a testnet and squawking about how it was 51% and BCX proof right up until realized that I had already tested a CPU only chain killer on Fairbrix.

He didn't seem too anxious to put his bullet proof testnet  up and scampered away like usual.

I noticed all you devout CoinRumper Butt Buddies seem to forget the most important thing. SC 2.0 is still talk and very much non existent.



I am curious.  Did you have something against Fairbrix that you don't have against Tenebrix?
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bulanula
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October 05, 2011, 04:39:25 PM
 #542

How blind can you be not to see that lolcust = artforz = bitcoinexpress !!!

Tenebrix could have EASILY been attacked in the start ( not so much now ) BUT nobody did attack it because they have interest not to attack.

SC2 will be attacked because it is better competitor CPU only chain etc.

Not rocket science !
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October 05, 2011, 07:40:53 PM
 #543

Hmm am I reading comments completely missing the obvious? (yeah that is a question)

If you change the PoW you simply add a "2nd PoW" and the code uses the old before Block X and the new starting from Block X

You release an updated everything (daemon, pool, miner, whatever else you like) and set Block X some time in the near future and tell everyone to upgrade before Block X (i.e. some "reasonable" time for them to upgrade)

I seriously hope I am misunderstanding the discussion, coz that would imply people not understanding what they are doing yet "running" the show ...
(relating to a comment I made elsewhere ...)

First, thank you for the remark - while I am aware of how and why upgrades are  implemented at "Block X", your pedantic reminders are appreciated anyway (Since I am far from being a shining example of skill, having someone pedantic around is very important)

However, the issue brought up by MoonShadow was not "how does one implement a PoW upgrade" but "what if a group of people with a significant fraction of network computational power  willfully refuse to upgrade their software with a new version that includes a "chain-breaking" update"

To which my humble response is, basically, "as long as they don't have pools and / or exchanges among them, that is not an issue".

Also, to address an issue I find mildly bothersome, I am not a "showrunner" or "leader", and am a little bit annoyed when people make such claims.

What fantasy land is that () comment based on?

You want to say that alt-coins, or, for that matter, bitcoin itself, has a lot of goods/services providers whose business model is not reliant upon ability to convert cryptocoins to fiat, and are essentially "cryptocoin self-contained" ?

Well, since I am not aware of independent research as to the subject, I might very well be wrong and such enterprises might very well be common, but so far I fail to recall even one...would you please dispel my ignorance ?

How blind can you be not to see that lolcust = artforz = bitcoinexpress !!!

Tenebrix could have EASILY been attacked in the start ( not so much now ) BUT nobody did attack it because they have interest not to attack.

SC2 will be attacked because it is better competitor CPU only chain etc.

Not rocket science !

So, typing dog  standard of evidence strikes again ?

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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bulanula
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October 05, 2011, 07:51:54 PM
 #544

Hmm am I reading comments completely missing the obvious? (yeah that is a question)

If you change the PoW you simply add a "2nd PoW" and the code uses the old before Block X and the new starting from Block X

You release an updated everything (daemon, pool, miner, whatever else you like) and set Block X some time in the near future and tell everyone to upgrade before Block X (i.e. some "reasonable" time for them to upgrade)

I seriously hope I am misunderstanding the discussion, coz that would imply people not understanding what they are doing yet "running" the show ...
(relating to a comment I made elsewhere ...)

First, thank you for the remark - while I am aware of how upgrades are typically implemented at "Block X", your pedantic reminders are appreciated anyway (Since I am far from being a shining example of skill, having someone pedantic around is very important)

However, the issue brought up by MoonShadow was not "how does one implement a PoW upgrade" but "what if a group of people with a significant fraction of network computational power  willfully refuse to upgrade their software with a new version that includes a "chain-breaking" update"

To which my humble response is, basically, "as long as they don't have pools and / or exchanges among them, that is not an issue".

Also, to address an issue I find mildly bothersome, I am not a "showrunner" or "leader", and am a little bit annoyed when people make such claims.

What fantasy land is that () comment based on?

You want to say that alt-coins, or, for that matter, bitcoin itself, has a lot of goods/services providers whose business model is not reliant upon ability to convert cryptocoins to fiat, and are essentially "cryptocoin self-contained" ?

Well, since I am not aware of independent research as to the subject, I might very well be wrong and such enterprises might very well be common, but so far I fail to recall even one...would you please dispel my ignorance ?

How blind can you be not to see that lolcust = artforz = bitcoinexpress !!!

Tenebrix could have EASILY been attacked in the start ( not so much now ) BUT nobody did attack it because they have interest not to attack.

SC2 will be attacked because it is better competitor CPU only chain etc.

Not rocket science !

So, typing dog  standard of evidence strikes again ?

Woof woof  Shocked
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October 05, 2011, 07:55:29 PM
 #545

Woof woof  Shocked

Good doggie, now run and sell some of the Tenebrix you've mined, because I hear there's some folks buying those thingies quite eagerly over there on btc-e.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
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bulanula
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October 05, 2011, 08:16:08 PM
 #546

Woof woof  Shocked

Good doggie, now run and sell some of the Tenebrix you've mined, because I hear there's some folks buying those thingies quite eagerly over there on btc-e.

Nope, I'm holding for now Smiley
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October 05, 2011, 10:15:38 PM
 #547

Woof woof  Shocked

Good doggie, now run and sell some of the Tenebrix you've mined, because I hear there's some folks buying those thingies quite eagerly over there on btc-e.
LOL at the TB graph there, it shows no depth and thus is effectively fake.
I wonder who did the miniscule buys at the heights to make it look like it was going up? Tongue
Coz obviously it was done that way on purpose.

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October 05, 2011, 10:26:34 PM
 #548

I wonder who did the miniscule buys at the heights to make it look like it was going up? Tongue
Coz obviously it was done that way on purpose.

Probably some of the folks from the speculation subforum 

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
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grod
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October 06, 2011, 01:54:17 AM
 #549

It's nearly 500 btc for grabs on btce.  That's $1500.  If any of you ever wanted to play "the manipulator", you could do that over tenebrix with basically the price of a smartphone.

Me, I'll just keep selling as I get confirms.  So far my two i7s are mining more BTC than my 5830s.  Been selling at all prices, low of .0016 to a high of .009 and happy to get what I get.   If something more lucrative comes along I'll switch to that, but for now I'm happy taking the not very bright tbx speculator money.
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October 06, 2011, 02:27:49 AM
 #550

I give TBX a 50/50 personally.
From the botnet herder point of view it's pretty awesome, or will be till it becomes "known" that all TBX are tainted with illegal computer use.
From a legit user perspective, it really depends on what happens if/when a botnet starts mining and cranks the difficulty into the sky.



Regardless, for now I mine it!

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TiagoTiago
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October 06, 2011, 05:30:06 AM
 #551

I'm getting all those lines saying i'm doing a few khash a sec per thread scrolling by, but how do i know if when i eventually crack a block things are set correctly to get me paid?


Btw, where can i find a calculator to show how long till i have 25%, 50% and 100% chance of having found a block (or somthing like that)?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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October 06, 2011, 05:40:09 AM
 #552

I'm getting all those lines saying i'm doing a few khash a sec per thread scrolling by, but how do i know if when i eventually crack a block things are set correctly to get me paid?


Btw, where can i find a calculator to show how long till i have 25%, 50% and 100% chance of having found a block (or somthing like that)?
1 difficulty in the real world (and here also) represents 2^32 hashes.
multiply 2^32 by the difficulty and that gives you an average expected number of hashes per share.
divide that by your number of hashes per second ... and you know how many seconds ... lots ...

Then consider the price of getting TB - oops - I mean the price of TB vs BTC (less lots of commissions) and you'll know if it is worth while ...

Don't forget that with most motherboards you cannot add a 2nd CPU to speed things up ...
Either buy another whole computer or buy an expensive (i.e. more than an ATI GPU) CPU to start with.

Yeah I've said that before but I still don't understand why no one notices those issues ...

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worldinacoin
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October 06, 2011, 05:46:38 AM
 #553

No wonder the price of Tenebrix keep going up, 2^32! Thats 50 days at 1khash/s!
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October 06, 2011, 06:06:34 AM
 #554

I just just thinking that some workstation cards have more L1 and L2.

http://www.microway.com/pdfs/TeslaC2050-Fermi-Performance.pdf

Does anyone know if GPU friendly code has been released yet?


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6391103

They look like about 2 grand though but you could probably make it back in a few weeks!

My suggestion would be to run the machine headless to maximise available GPU cache.

I'm not a computer scientist though of course so I will be interested to hear what other people think of this.

If you manage to make lots of TBX from this suggestion (e.g. using workstation cards) please send some to tLDYCpwcLGxeTWNiycSyHoZf8eHEAqRmFc

I'd do it myself but I am afraid I won't have the know how until the code is released. I also don't know if I can just buy one in my city or if i'd have to wait for one to be delivered from overseas. I live in Australia.
The only thing I can see at my wholesaler is quadro cards.

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October 06, 2011, 06:16:55 AM
 #555

Probably because these "issues" aren't issues unless you have a ancient P4 or something.
My PhenomII is happily hashing along at 20kHps while increasing system power usage at the wall by 108W.
2^32 * 0.0926 / 20000 / 3600 ... about 5.5h/block
so ~108tbx/day for 2.6kWh/day
*checks btc-e* 108tbx = about 0.83 btc less fees, let's say 0.8
at 4.82/btc ... $3.85/day less power... about $3.20
Yeah, can't see why people are throwing as many CPUs as they can find at it...

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October 06, 2011, 06:24:01 AM
 #556

The other thing I can think of that would save all these problems. AWS has access to Tesla GPU's... once the GPU friendly code is released try running it on AWS.

I would suggest modifying the rpc-miner CUDA version to use scrypt.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2444.0

Maybe I should have just tried this out without opening my big mouth.

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October 06, 2011, 06:42:04 AM
 #557

ArtForz: do you think this would work?

Or maybe you've already done this.

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October 06, 2011, 07:05:35 AM
 #558

ArtForz: do you think this would work?
Nope, haven't played with nv yet, and certainly not with teslas.
But looking at the spec and architecture...
14 CUs with 64kB L1/LDS per CU and 768kB global cache (128k per 64-bit memory controller). 32 ALUs/CU, clocked at 1.15GHz
6970 = 24 CUs with 64kB L1/LDS per CU and 512kB global cache. 64 ALUs/CU, clocked at 880MHz
nv L1 can do 2 reads/clock, so... wild-ass guess... might end up at 30kH/s or so.
Of course the lack of a native rotate won't exactly help, scrypt is sha256 (we know that one...) and salsa20, in which *every 2nd op* is a rotate.
so... probably more like 20kH/s.

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October 06, 2011, 07:24:06 AM
 #559

Probably because these "issues" aren't issues unless you have a ancient P4 or something.
My PhenomII is happily hashing along at 20kHps while increasing system power usage at the wall by 108W.
2^32 * 0.0926 / 20000 / 3600 ... about 5.5h/block
so ~108tbx/day for 2.6kWh/day
*checks btc-e* 108tbx = about 0.83 btc less fees, let's say 0.8
at 4.82/btc ... $3.85/day less power... about $3.20
Yeah, can't see why people are throwing as many CPUs as they can find at it...
Coz most people have at most 1 fast CPU - then there are those who don't even have that.
... and, as I said: ... to double the performance you gotta buy another whole computer ...
(or throw away your CPU and buy a new one ... if you can upgrade it)

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October 06, 2011, 07:26:12 AM
 #560

Aren't the new 7xxx series supposed to be a new CU architecture has a separate access to the LDS with 128 Bytes/clock bandwidth?

Thought I read that a while back somewhere?
Hmm I read they will most likely use half the power with the same performance (28nm)... but other than that ... ?

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