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Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency  (Read 104740 times)
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October 09, 2011, 07:51:58 PM
 #701

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



LOL. Read up mate. The algo is scrypt shit. Cannot be accelerated on GPUs. Only Linux 64 bit AMD plastic shit CPUs. No love for Intel on Linux 64 or even Windblows.

For SandyBridge CPUs (corei7 with four digit model numbers).

git the package.
./configure
(screw the flags)
gedit Makefile
find "CFLAGS = "
Change that line to: CFLAGS = -march=native -O3 -Wall -msse2 -msse3 -msse4.1 -msse4.2 -msse4 -mavx
Brought my performance from 2.6kh/s per core (running one thread per core) to 3.66-3.7kh/s per core.

Tested with 6 threads, +2 kh/s in total.
HT works now!
Just needed some hardcore flags, that's all.

 Grin

But not for HT cores? With HT enabled, kh/2s?
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October 09, 2011, 08:14:58 PM
 #702

There is an Intel optimized variant of minerd.
You compile with the right flags for Intel, just like I did for the AMD variant.
Really?,would you mind helping me out step by step through PM if possible for windows ?

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October 09, 2011, 08:16:24 PM
 #703

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



The algorithm uses requires a large amount of highspeed cache.  Something GPU lack thus GPU will need to pull from global memory (video card memory) doing that make it impossible to operate parallel as the various shaders will be constantly blocking each other's access to global memory.  With a CPU it has sufficient dedicated local cache that each core can operate at full speed without conflict.   You CAN mine with a GPU however you won't get the 100x to 500x performance boost compared to CPU that you see in other cryptocurrencies.

Given the higher cost of GPU combned with higher energy usage it makes mining on a GPU economically prohibitive.

The algorithm doesn't look to see if you are using a GPU, that would be easily defeated.  It simply is based on a "problem" that GPU aren't very good at solving (yet).
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October 09, 2011, 08:19:51 PM
 #704

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



LOL. Read up mate. The algo is scrypt shit. Cannot be accelerated on GPUs. Only Linux 64 bit AMD plastic shit CPUs. No love for Intel on Linux 64 or even Windblows.

For SandyBridge CPUs (corei7 with four digit model numbers).

git the package.
./configure
(screw the flags)
gedit Makefile
find "CFLAGS = "
Change that line to: CFLAGS = -march=native -O3 -Wall -msse2 -msse3 -msse4.1 -msse4.2 -msse4 -mavx
Brought my performance from 2.6kh/s per core (running one thread per core) to 3.66-3.7kh/s per core.

Tested with 6 threads, +2 kh/s in total.
HT works now!
Just needed some hardcore flags, that's all.

 Grin

But not for HT cores? With HT enabled, kh/2s?

My AMD Phenom II X6 has 6 cores, it doesn't have HT, so I run 6 threads at 3.5 khash/s.

An Intel Core i7 2600K has 4 cores, does have HT, but with HT disabled it runs 4 threads at 3.6khash/s.

HT isn't a real core, you can't expect the same performance as a real core.

So I think a Core i7 is doing pretty nice.
If Intel added 2 more cores, it would kick ass.
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October 09, 2011, 08:23:21 PM
 #705

There is an Intel optimized variant of minerd.
You compile with the right flags for Intel, just like I did for the AMD variant.
Really?,would you mind helping me out step by step through PM if possible for windows ?

Linux only, as far as I know.
Perfomance under Windows isn't good for both Intel and AMD.

I suck at Linux but with some help I pulled it of for my CPU.

I use Xubuntu on a USB stick as a base, first get that up and running.

If you read trough this topic from 4 pages back until now, there's enough information to do it yourself Smiley
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October 09, 2011, 08:23:34 PM
 #706

But not for HT cores? With HT enabled, kh/2s?

My AMD Phenom II X6 has 6 cores, it doesn't have HT, so I run 6 threads at 3.5 khash/s.

An Intel Core i7 2600K has 4 cores, does have HT, but with HT disabled it runs 4 threads at 3.6khash/s.

HT isn't a real core, you can't expect the same performance as a real core.

So I think a Core i7 is doing pretty nice.
If Intel added 2 more cores, it would kick ass.

Ah ok thx for clarifying that the 3.6kh/s was for 4 real i7 2600 cores withouth HT.
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October 10, 2011, 12:25:10 AM
 #707

for those mining on windows, try running 64bit linux in a virtualbox instance...compile w/ appropriate stated flags and Ive noticed much greater kh/s using the linux vm ... then in native windows!

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October 10, 2011, 04:01:40 AM
 #708

On my 2600k compiled with the flags I listed, HT adds a decent amount of speed.

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October 10, 2011, 05:52:36 AM
 #709

for those mining on windows, try running 64bit linux in a virtualbox instance...compile w/ appropriate stated flags and Ive noticed much greater kh/s using the linux vm ... then in native windows!
This is because linux is better than windows.  Even when it's virtualized in windows.
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October 10, 2011, 07:40:50 AM
 #710

What is the ETA for providing a Win32 binary with Intel optimizations?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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October 10, 2011, 07:43:37 AM
 #711

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



The algorithm uses requires a large amount of highspeed cache.  Something GPU lack thus GPU will need to pull from global memory (video card memory) doing that make it impossible to operate parallel as the various shaders will be constantly blocking each other's access to global memory.  With a CPU it has sufficient dedicated local cache that each core can operate at full speed without conflict.   You CAN mine with a GPU however you won't get the 100x to 500x performance boost compared to CPU that you see in other cryptocurrencies.

Given the higher cost of GPU combned with higher energy usage it makes mining on a GPU economically prohibitive.

The algorithm doesn't look to see if you are using a GPU, that would be easily defeated.  It simply is based on a "problem" that GPU aren't very good at solving (yet).

would be interesting how good or bad it really is to mine on a GPU. Art, will you release your scrypt gpu miner? has somebody else tested it?


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October 10, 2011, 08:45:33 AM
 #712

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



The algorithm uses requires a large amount of highspeed cache.  Something GPU lack thus GPU will need to pull from global memory (video card memory) doing that make it impossible to operate parallel as the various shaders will be constantly blocking each other's access to global memory.  With a CPU it has sufficient dedicated local cache that each core can operate at full speed without conflict.   You CAN mine with a GPU however you won't get the 100x to 500x performance boost compared to CPU that you see in other cryptocurrencies.

Given the higher cost of GPU combned with higher energy usage it makes mining on a GPU economically prohibitive.

The algorithm doesn't look to see if you are using a GPU, that would be easily defeated.  It simply is based on a "problem" that GPU aren't very good at solving (yet).

would be interesting how good or bad it really is to mine on a GPU. Art, will you release your scrypt gpu miner? has somebody else tested it?



Don't exactly know why but he won't release it. I have already asked.
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October 10, 2011, 02:21:13 PM
 #713

I am a little curious about this currency? Why have you opted to make it GPU 'hostile'? What do you mean by this? I'm a little lost as I'm used to mining with GPU for everything else.Can GPU mining work but with limitations or is it all blocked from GPU? How can Tenebrix tell if CPU/APU/GPU/FPGA is used to mine it rather than being CPU mined like intended? Theoretically some guy can just point his GPU to a named worker set to mine this currency?



The algorithm uses requires a large amount of highspeed cache.  Something GPU lack thus GPU will need to pull from global memory (video card memory) doing that make it impossible to operate parallel as the various shaders will be constantly blocking each other's access to global memory.  With a CPU it has sufficient dedicated local cache that each core can operate at full speed without conflict.   You CAN mine with a GPU however you won't get the 100x to 500x performance boost compared to CPU that you see in other cryptocurrencies.

Given the higher cost of GPU combned with higher energy usage it makes mining on a GPU economically prohibitive.

The algorithm doesn't look to see if you are using a GPU, that would be easily defeated.  It simply is based on a "problem" that GPU aren't very good at solving (yet).
Hmm I'm pretty sure the GPU cost can be lower than the CPU cost (not power/energy, just GPU vs CPU cost)

To buy the first GPU miner costs PC+CPU+GPU
To buy the first CPU miner costs PC+CPU
Firstly, however, the CPU required by the GPU miner is cheaper than that required for CPU mining.
The GPU miner's CPU hardly does any work (if you use Linux and the best ATI driver) e.g. in my case it clocks down to 1200Mhz and only use 4% of a single CPU core when mining.
The CPU miner's CPU needs to be all about performance to get more hashes so will clearly cost more the the GPU miner's CPU thus making the overall cost difference less.

Next, if you wish to increase your hashing power:
For CPU you need to buy another whole PC to add directly to your current hash value.
For GPU you can usually just add another GPU card if you bought an appropriate motherboard with more than one PCI-e slot.

Not a big issue, but just that I've seen a few people say that about costs and it isn't that straight forward at all.

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October 10, 2011, 02:25:35 PM
 #714

What is the ETA for providing a Win32 binary with Intel optimizations?
Later today if I get a chance to work on it and can make it fly.

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October 10, 2011, 02:35:36 PM
 #715

Okay, the bounty entry on the new site is glitchy, so I will just post here. I place a 500 TBX bounty on making and maintaining a collection of windows minerds for various platforms (intel, AMD, 32 and 64 bits, with several optimization tricks).

First person to upload the collection and link here wins (links and filenames must, of course, be descriptive)

Static builds will be preferred (so as to ensure that there won't be a dll hell to deal with Smiley )

Gotta run now.

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October 10, 2011, 02:41:40 PM
 #716

I can't get the latest install to solo mine with default values. Anyone have an idiot proof guide I can follow? I'd like to see this working in solo mine mode before I join a pool.  Thanks gents!
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October 10, 2011, 03:00:37 PM
 #717

Hmm I'm pretty sure the GPU cost can be lower than the CPU cost (not power/energy, just GPU vs CPU cost)

To buy the first GPU miner costs PC+CPU+GPU
To buy the first CPU miner costs PC+CPU
Firstly, however, the CPU required by the GPU miner is cheaper than that required for CPU mining.
The GPU miner's CPU hardly does any work (if you use Linux and the best ATI driver) e.g. in my case it clocks down to 1200Mhz and only use 4% of a single CPU core when mining.
The CPU miner's CPU needs to be all about performance to get more hashes so will clearly cost more the the GPU miner's CPU thus making the overall cost difference less.

Next, if you wish to increase your hashing power:
For CPU you need to buy another whole PC to add directly to your current hash value.
For GPU you can usually just add another GPU card if you bought an appropriate motherboard with more than one PCI-e slot.

True but currently those GPU can yield far more mining bitcoins.  No chain exists in a vacuum but you are right if somehow bitcoin died and tenebrix reigned supreme you would see GPU mining.  It wouldn't have the multiple that it does on bitcoin but it would be more profitable.  Eventually the cache on GPU will improve and GPU will slowly creep further ahead.  Likely the best GPU aren't the top of the line ones (with top of the line price).  As the scrypt algorithm limits how parallel a GPU can work effectively we may find that lower end (more narrow) GPU offer higher hashrate per $. 

Still as long as bitcoin is profitable there is no real reason to look at using GPU where they are only 1/50th as effective. 
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October 10, 2011, 07:03:19 PM
 #718

It looks like SC2 is pulling miners away from Tenebrix.. but not very many.  We were at 4.30 gh/s yesterday, now we are at 3.60gh/s.

edit: nevermind, allchains.info is totally broken and none of the values on it make any sense.  I have no idea what the real TBX hash rate is right now.

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October 10, 2011, 07:29:33 PM
 #719

Can't get anything to compile on windows.  Sorry windows users, it's time for linux.

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October 10, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
 #720

Can't get anything to compile on windows.  Sorry windows users, it's time for linux.

http://www.wuala.com/jbw9/pub/Bitcoin/Tenebrix/miner/win/

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