[ANN] Blacknet BLN | Staking | Future of zApp & ZeFi

[vizique]

A Few Announcements!!!

1.) First I want to thank everyone who supported Blackout Wednesday! Our press release was read over 100,000 times on over 111 sites: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22BlackCoin%20Popularity%20%26%20Value%20Soars%20Due%20to%20Revolutionary%22

2.) As everyone here might already know BlackCoin is being added to CoinKite! They have a debit card that can be branded and used at their shops. SoepKip notified me a few days ago about the news and a decision was made I will not longer produce a separate Visa card. We do not want to cause confusion in the marketplace, and we also do not want to incite unnecessary competition amongst ourselves. Instead, I have decided to support the CoinKite project and use my resources in helping that partnership grow.

3.) As I previously announced I will be using my own resources to quickly build a network and infrastructure around BlackCoin. I wholeheartedly disagree this coin or community should take baby steps. We need more talented people who are willing to help in any way they can to help this community grow.

4.) Finally... Today I would like to announce the BlackCoin Card Wallet. As some of you know I am software and product developer, and since CoinKite will eventually supply our debit cards, I wanted to shift focus and  create something special for the community. I contacted rat4 and Soepkip about a portable BC wallet the size of a credit card. The dev team liked the idea so I began immediately making it happen.

So what exactly is the Blackcoin Card Wallet?

The BlackCoin Card Wallet is a completely branded BC card with a pull out USB dongle. It will be loaded with a custom BlackCoin start menu and the wallet pre loaded. When you insert the wallet into your computer the menu will automatically launch, and you will have access to your wallet, current market prices, BC news, and other elements all in one place! What makes this exciting is you will not only be able to keep your wallet with you at all times, in the event you need to access your funds you will be able to do it at any Windows computer. The blockchain and all other data will already be loaded on the card. (Obviously if you do not plug the card in regularly it will take longer for it to sync). Also, the launcher will automatically update the wallet to the current version automatically.

Another benefit of the card is you can pre-load as many coins as you like and give the cards away to family and friends as "gift cards". They will not need to be tech savvy to use it! Just insert and go! This is a great way to introduce others to BlackCoin.

And lets be honest, wouldn't it be cool to walk around with a BlackCoin wallet card with the sexy logo?

Tomorrow for "Blackfriday" I will be posting pics and taking pre-orders. I am taking pre-orders because this is the first run of the product and I have no clue how much demand there will be. I do not want to under manufacture or over manufacture since there is considerable cost involved. Production time is approximately 2 weeks and I will be shipping immediately upon receipt of the product. The card will cost $19.99 (BC of course) and that includes free shipping worldwide. So if you live on a private island I will still ship it to you for free :-). The first batch created will be also branded with "Special Edition" and other cool goodies I do not want to mention just yet. Some of the proceeds from each sale will go to the dev team and back into this community to fund other projects. A website is currently being developed for the card and once we are live I will be doing a promotional campaign promoting BC and the card!!!

Well done you!! Very impressive.

I'll certainly be in for at least one of those cards maybe more.... keep us posted on progress.

I've also been in touch with Bittylicious as I  have done quite a lot of business with them over the last year. Add this to the ATM and retails projects and products we are developing here and critical mass is beginning to happen.

[8Lemonade]

I'll take a card as well! Thanks for the effort

[Jabulon]

about security: could someone explain how we could be hacked ? (pos) I know ppl have to have wallets opened, but how many coins/ppl/whatever ?

Technically you need 51% of all blackcoins to perform a hack in terms of double spending etc. Theoretically the required amount of coins is smaller if an attacker is able to precompute the chain, but this is open research afaik.

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.

20% of active stakes at the moment off course, less active stakes, less security, less interest make less actives stakers

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22aw8c/most_altcoins_are_not_secure_enough_they_exist/

Well this comment was related to PeerCoin and the actual statement is:

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.
I haven't done analysis on 51% attack on ppc, and I really doubt 20% will be enough.

I don't want to say that you are wrong, but want to stress that these topics are very hot (and interesting) and not completely understood yet [edit: by the larger audience, brains like rat4 surely have a better understanding].

Thats Right, what make me think its that is only 20% of active stakes.
On LOW REWARD POS, less people gonna be willing to active stake,

Its just that in crypto security came from miners, less rewards to miners make less relaltive security

I think that this can be a problem just like for Doge is (low early pow reward) that can be BC problem (using analogy)

But unlike in Doge in PoS there is no real work that has to be done, so basically there is no reason not to stake as long as you have a device running that is able to stake. When did you switch off your mobile phone last time?

Te reason not to stake is the LOW INTEREST!, the less that you get paid for doing something the less you are gonna do it.  With a greater initial POS reward people will be more willing to stake their coins.

On android always stacking will mean It will also drain battery LIFE (Not desireable) so people will shut it down most of the time.

That's what I am saying. AFAIK the only difference between staking and not staking is the ability to broadcast a block to the network, which costs the energy in terms of the broadcasting operation and requires a small amount of the data volume.

I think these factors are negligible. And with no significant cost even a 1% interest rate is worth it, the only drawback is the limited availability of the actual balance.

This.  Although the math may make sense in a 'laboratory environment' the simple fact is that there is no comparison between PoW and PoS as far as actual operation.  If the BTC blockchain was secured by every open wallet, to the exclusion of PoW block creation... then the likelihood of a successful 'forgery' would drop to a value not even statistically viable.... as you would need to control not only the majority of the hashrate, but also a majority of the active addresses represented by the wallets themselves.  This would basically have 1 chance of success and about a billion of failure... every time you tried it.

To some extent that's what you have with PoS... as the 'mining' is done by the wallet - with near 0 energy cost, and at a speed which is very fast... there's really no 'downside' to staking other than from a personal security standpoint (which to me is the real achilles heel of PoS in some ways).  In other words - if you aren't afraid of having your wallet on a computer connected to the Internet - then there's no reason to not be staking your coins... as 1% is still pure profit!

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.  Right now (provided people were willing to sell that is) you could theoretically buy enough BC for about $1M USD... however, once you had that - it would be nearly impossible to capitalize on that resource... since doing it successfully would virtually guarantee that your invested holdings would lose their value the instant it was discovered.  If the market cap reaches even $30M - wish is still far less than LTC - then it would require ~$7-10M for the requisite amount.

So essentially, the only applicable question is... do you believe there is already someone who invested tens of thousands of dollars or the equivalent value in BTC in BC... who actually wants to destroy BC in the near future (along with any real profit potential for themselves down the road).  I agree that this world is a very weird place today, but I still think this is a non-issue for us.

EDIT: I should say, and that the person (should they exist) would rather destroy BC completely - along with their investment - rather than simply continue to see gains that no other vehicle current - especially in crypto currency land - is capable of.  At that point you're talking about ideological terrorism at the exclusion of greed and self preservation.  This does occur, but despite what Homeland Security might have us believe... it's still representative of less than .00001% of the population (and yes I made that up... it's probably a much smaller percentage even than that).

Quite right. My own calculations on this topic were the same, for all intents and purposes. I think if the criminal in question had any sense of probabilities, he would take a different course anyway: He would invest the 1mil USD in powerball tickets in hopes of winning enough money to fund more effective terrorism. It is THIS scenario that I think we must be more concerned about.

[colinfx]

I've also been in touch with Bittylicious as I  have done quite a lot of business with them over the last year. Add this to the ATM and retails projects and products we are developing here and critical mass is beginning to happen.

Awesome! There's a few of us pushing Bittylicious, together we can get BlackCoin on another great service!

[firstflyover]

Everyone, I need your help:

We need to get BlackCoin added to http://bittylicious.com, it will allow BC to be purchased with GBP. Please email admin@bittylicious.com and tell them you are willing to sell blackcoin on their site. They are concerned that there will be no supply. Please take a moment to to this now.

See their tweet here:

https://twitter.com/Bittylicious_/status/454165460314255360

Providing an avenue for the general public to buy BlackCoin directly is of paramount importance. We need to start bringing investors in from outside of crypto world, and this is just another option for the outside world.

So can we do that now please?

Please email admin@bittylicious.com and ask for them to add blackcoin.

This is an awesome community, we can get this done!

Yeah I emailed them a few hours ago. lol.

@IconicExpert. That's great news. And means we can be more resistant to getting our coins hacked I hope!
I'm certainly in.

Done...

[digicidal]

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.

That's indeed a point that is also bothering me. If tomorrow somebody with a lot of money sees a threat in BC then currently he could easily just "pay the price" to destroy it completely.

Then two things must occur...

1) Enough of us who believe in the coin have to liquidate 100% of our BC to help them... the entire order book on all 3 main exchanges dealing with BC would not be enough for this...  

2) Secondarily, as there is nowhere near enough liquidity for this... the price would absolutely skyrocket... as all sells would be immediately absorbed including those that are stratospheric (like 5BTC/BC or some other crazy price).  This would immediately push the cost of monopoly to much, much higher than simply ~$1M - probably closer to ~$20M in reality.

3) This person has to have no other purpose in life other than destroying BC... although I'm sure such people exist... and probably in a pretty decent quantity... I can assure you that someone that hung up on a single crypto currency's life or death is not the kind of person to control that kind of net worth.

So I understand that either you are genuinely worried about this aspect for your personal holdings' sake - or you are simply trying to 'rebroadcast' the only downside you could find as it relates to PoS coins and BC in particular.  Regardless of your motivations, rest assured that these are irrational concerns... and merit much less fear and concern than things like government regulations, disreputable vendors, con-artists, etc.  These are all much bigger risks - not to BC alone, but all crypto currencies combined - and they take only a handful of immoral individuals or bureaucrats to succeed.

[blade87]

BTC is getting hammered today, it broke a long-term $400 triple bottom. I might as well dump the rest of my BTC into BC soon considering where BTC prices are heading.

[mrwalker1750]

Question: Will Blackcoin be all that it can be if Bitcoin falls away?

Believe me I'm not trolling. I'm Blackcoin's biggest fan. I'm just asking a serious question.

Thanks!

[noerc]

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.

That's indeed a point that is also bothering me. If tomorrow somebody with a lot of money sees a threat in BC then currently he could easily just "pay the price" to destroy it completely.

Then two things must occur...

1) Enough of us who believe in the coin have to liquidate 100% of our BC to help them... the entire order book on all 3 main exchanges dealing with BC would not be enough for this...  

2) Secondarily, as there is nowhere near enough liquidity for this... the price would absolutely skyrocket... as all sells would be immediately absorbed including those that are stratospheric (like 5BTC/BC or some other crazy price).  This would immediately push the cost of monopoly to much, much higher than simply ~$1M - probably closer to ~$20M in reality.

3) This person has to have no other purpose in life other than destroying BC... although I'm sure such people exist... and probably in a pretty decent quantity... I can assure you that someone that hung up on a single crypto currency's life or death is not the kind of person to control that kind of net worth.

So I understand that either you are genuinely worried about this aspect for your personal holdings' sake - or you are simply trying to 'rebroadcast' the only downside you could find as it relates to PoS coins and BC in particular.  Regardless of your motivations, rest assured that these are irrational concerns... and merit much less fear and concern than things like government regulations, disreputable vendors, con-artists, etc.  These are all much bigger risks - not to BC alone, but all crypto currencies combined - and they take only a handful of immoral individuals or bureaucrats to succeed.

I am neither worried about my stake nor do I want to point to any downside of PoS coins, I saw this whole more as an open-minded discussion what in theory might be possible. I agree on all your points, except that the influence on the price you mention in point 2 can probably be reduced significantly with an appropriate trading strategy. Further I was just wondering what would happen if this guy would invest the required money to take over BC in hash power, will he be able to fork Doge? All these scenarios are very unrealistic and the whole point was more related to all alt coins.

[digicidal]

BTC is getting hammered today, it broke a long-term $400 triple bottom. I might as well dump the rest of my BTC into BC soon considering where BTC prices are heading.

Funny you should mention that... awaiting my confirmations on the last of mine as we speak... who knows, maybe BTC will be the catalyst to push us over the 10K mark on Mintpal.

[mknlp]

Im so sad i didnt get into this coin earlier. Really looks promising.

If anyone would be generous to donate a (very small) donation, i would greatly appreciate it!

BA5ysN85h1XQSdMtps3o6Z6LAyZwNq5FcX

Thanks!

[MuffinMaster]

Question: Will Blackcoin be all that it can be if Bitcoin falls away?

Believe me I'm not trolling. I'm Blackcoin's biggest fan. I'm just asking a serious question.

Thanks!

tough question. Currently bitcoin has broken through key support, blackcoin is holding above high key support (9k).

Won't know for a while. I'm keeping all my Blackcoin right now though. I think people are going to adopt the wait and see approach. Who knows people may say fuck it and switch to blackcoin while bitcoin dumps. cash out directly via prelude.io.

[digicidal]

I am neither worried about my stake nor do I want to point to any downside of PoS coins, I saw this whole more as an open-minded discussion what in theory might be possible. I agree on all your points, except that the influence on the price you mention in point 2 can probably be reduced significantly with an appropriate trading strategy. Further I was just wondering what would happen if this guy would invest the required money to take over BC in hash power, will he be able to fork Doge? All these scenarios are very unrealistic and the whole point was more related to all alt coins.

In order to do that (trading strategy) would require a very long time... much longer than simply paying a few thousand to develop a sham exchange and fund a small amount on the fiat side to encourage the majority of BC volume to move to that exchange... only to fake a dump, buy the coins, and begin the laborious process of attempting to double-spend... all of which would 'smell fishy' long before it would be likely to result in anything of value (in fact just dumping the exchange and running with the cash would be easier and arguably more destructive to public opinion... a la Mt. Gox).

On the second point... it would be possible on some pools to do exactly what you've proposed... however, part of our pool (at least as it's been described by TheBlackDogOfWallSt and St. GNU) is to avoid exactly this problem by merged/split mining and 'benevolent' dumping of the mined coins.  So even if someone controlled 1Th/s of scrypt power... and pointed that at the pool... which would be enough to fork any scrypt coin in existence I believe... their hashrate would instead be spread out across multiple target coins in an attempt to avoid that from occurring.

At the end of the day, even if they were successful... the worst that would occur is they get no BC for their efforts, and a different coin gets destroyed.  Again, rest assured that these are irrational fears... there are plenty of rational fears in cryptos to worry about before wasting too much time on these extremely outside possibilities.

[blade87]

I think people are going to adopt the wait and see approach. Who knows people may say fuck it and switch to blackcoin while bitcoin dumps.

That's me. BTC is starting to approach the "I've got very little to lose at this point" prices, so I may be adding a fair amount of BC to my position soon.

The only people cashing out BTC now are those who have invested more than they could afford to lose, unfortunately.

[gonzoucab]

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.

That's indeed a point that is also bothering me. If tomorrow somebody with a lot of money sees a threat in BC then currently he could easily just "pay the price" to destroy it completely.

Then two things must occur...

1) Enough of us who believe in the coin have to liquidate 100% of our BC to help them... the entire order book on all 3 main exchanges dealing with BC would not be enough for this...  

2) Secondarily, as there is nowhere near enough liquidity for this... the price would absolutely skyrocket... as all sells would be immediately absorbed including those that are stratospheric (like 5BTC/BC or some other crazy price).  This would immediately push the cost of monopoly to much, much higher than simply ~$1M - probably closer to ~$20M in reality.

3) This person has to have no other purpose in life other than destroying BC... although I'm sure such people exist... and probably in a pretty decent quantity... I can assure you that someone that hung up on a single crypto currency's life or death is not the kind of person to control that kind of net worth.

So I understand that either you are genuinely worried about this aspect for your personal holdings' sake - or you are simply trying to 'rebroadcast' the only downside you could find as it relates to PoS coins and BC in particular.  Regardless of your motivations, rest assured that these are irrational concerns... and merit much less fear and concern than things like government regulations, disreputable vendors, con-artists, etc.  These are all much bigger risks - not to BC alone, but all crypto currencies combined - and they take only a handful of immoral individuals or bureaucrats to succeed.

Cryoptorush guy??? hehehehehe  XD hes got a reason.

[mrbenjie]

Im so sad i didnt get into this coin earlier. Really looks promising.

If anyone would be generous to donate a (very small) donation, i would greatly appreciate it!

BA5ysN85h1XQSdMtps3o6Z6LAyZwNq5FcX

Thanks!

wtf.... are you crazy....

to bad i only have +200k, and not +300k, please can you make a donation to me so that i have 300k ore more.

thanks

[gonzoucab]

Im so sad i didnt get into this coin earlier. Really looks promising.

If anyone would be generous to donate a (very small) donation, i would greatly appreciate it!

BA5ysN85h1XQSdMtps3o6Z6LAyZwNq5FcX

Thanks!

I can donate you Mint send me your address!

[MuffinMaster]

The only people cashing out BTC now are those who have invested more than they could afford to lose, unfortunately.

That's a firesale, people dropping for a loss. Wallstreet playing the game? general market maddess?

who knows, I'm not selling any bc or btc though.

[digicidal]

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.

That's indeed a point that is also bothering me. If tomorrow somebody with a lot of money sees a threat in BC then currently he could easily just "pay the price" to destroy it completely.

Then two things must occur...

1) Enough of us who believe in the coin have to liquidate 100% of our BC to help them... the entire order book on all 3 main exchanges dealing with BC would not be enough for this...  

2) Secondarily, as there is nowhere near enough liquidity for this... the price would absolutely skyrocket... as all sells would be immediately absorbed including those that are stratospheric (like 5BTC/BC or some other crazy price).  This would immediately push the cost of monopoly to much, much higher than simply ~$1M - probably closer to ~$20M in reality.

3) This person has to have no other purpose in life other than destroying BC... although I'm sure such people exist... and probably in a pretty decent quantity... I can assure you that someone that hung up on a single crypto currency's life or death is not the kind of person to control that kind of net worth.

So I understand that either you are genuinely worried about this aspect for your personal holdings' sake - or you are simply trying to 'rebroadcast' the only downside you could find as it relates to PoS coins and BC in particular.  Regardless of your motivations, rest assured that these are irrational concerns... and merit much less fear and concern than things like government regulations, disreputable vendors, con-artists, etc.  These are all much bigger risks - not to BC alone, but all crypto currencies combined - and they take only a handful of immoral individuals or bureaucrats to succeed.

Cryoptorush guy??? hehehehehe  XD hes got a reason.

As I said there are probably many people in the world that would love nothing more than to kill BC - although still far fewer than want to destroy BTC and LTC for similar reasons.  The difference is that Fystakitten and crew are still living at home and are about $1M short of the necessary funds.

As far as being insane, unscrupulous, and salivating at the possibility... you are undoubtedly 100% correct in your assessment.

[noerc]

At the end of the day, even if they were successful... the worst that would occur is they get no BC for their efforts, and a different coin gets destroyed.  Again, rest assured that these are irrational fears... there are plenty of rational fears in cryptos to worry about before wasting too much time on these extremely outside possibilities.

Still worth thinking about. But maybe this BCT thread isn't a very good place to do so (sadly) - I'll try on reddit or blackcointalk in future. Thanks anyway for these interesting and convincing thoughts!