Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[georgem]

so also the 71th day cancellation is bullshit. It clearly states 61 days. Why would one add the 10 days? Late shipment is late shipment even if 10 days are allowed. Not need to add them up.

I agree with you.

Again we have an unfair reinterpretation of facts.

1) Shipment can be late up to a maximum of 10 days from the agreed shipment date.

2) For each subsequent 10 days of late shipping, we will add for free 10% more hashing power to your order as penalty.

3) After the 61st day of late shipment, you have the right to request a full refund and we will pay you an additional penalty of 10% of the initial order amount.

In bitmines own language, "late Shipment" is what they define in paragraph 1. It has nothing to do with CPP, in fact it excludes them and us from the CPP.
It's just the lateness in days, after the agreed upon shipment week.

This same definition can't be changed later on, what are they thinking, to no connect it to the agreed upon shipment week anymore, but rather to the start of the CPP???

Ofcourse not.
What sane person changes the definition inbetween two paragraphs???

They start the sentence with: Listen everybody: "late shipment" means "days passed since the shipment date"...
and two sentences later they go....
nonono! "late shipment" starts with the CPP?

I think any lawyer would start laughing should they hear about such clumsy behaviour. What is this a turkish bazar?

So I am sure you can apply for a refund after 61 days. Don't let bitmine intimidate you. Just do the procedure, and talk to them, and complain about it wherever you can, and how often you can.
This must be heard, or they will think they can do anything they want.

[1715555992]

1715555992

[wttbs]

I ordered and paid early october 2013. 1Th Desk. Still waiting, no news... customer protection plan status:

January 05 2014 : +10%
January 15 2014 : +10%
January 25 2014 : +10%
February 4 2014 : +10%
February 14 2014: +10%
February 24 2014: +10%
March 5 2014: +10%

status on my account today: processing.... no shipping this week

March 15 2014: +10%

total compensation now is 80% , should receive (at least) 1 extra Desk with 4 modules = 800Gh/s. If I haven't received my order by March 25th, we are at 90% = a full extra 1T Desk  (yes I can still laugh about it....)

[georgem]

total compensation now is 80% , should receive (at least) 1 extra Desk with 4 modules = 800Gh/s. If I haven't received my order by March 25th, we are at 90% = a full extra 1T Desk  (yes I can still laugh about it....)

I am afraid they will only give you 50%.

Please call bitmine until they give you an answer.

[lossminer]

but whats the basis of 50% max? Nothing in the ToS right?

[Wolke]

total compensation now is 80% , should receive (at least) 1 extra Desk with 4 modules = 800Gh/s. If I haven't received my order by March 25th, we are at 90% = a full extra 1T Desk   (yes I can still laugh about it....)

I am afraid they will only give you 50%.

Please call bitmine until they give you an answer.

i think this must be check by a lawyer... because i can't read a limit....

[georgem]

but whats the basis of 50% max? Nothing in the ToS right?

No, but only the "reinterpretation" by giorgiomassa in his "famous last words":

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg5362648#msg5362648


I still strongly believe that any lawyer would agree that the CPP is supposed to continue until the device can be build.

If not, one has to ask if giorgiomassa simply gambled and assumed/hoped that many people would rather give up and ask for a refund?


A lawyer should investigate if giorgiomassa intentionally started this scheme so he could finance his business with our money, and pay us back our own money plus interest only after more than 5 months.
(because that's about the duration bitmine owns your money, until they have to give it back)

[Finnminer]

Come the fuck on! Every single buyer should have understood that it's risky to put money on a pre order miner. You all read the BFL threads. That was a fucking success for everyone involved. Sure hook me up for some of that please!

Ohnoes, it's been 12 months and I still haven't cancelled my order. I want my 360% CPP. Yeah, right. It was pretty fucking clear from the beginning that you get 10% per 10 days until you reach 60 days and then you get your money back.

Yes, everyone's frustrated that the bet didn't pay off, but there is no free money! You thought you'd make a quick buck and it didn't work out. Yeah well, that's life. If it'd be that easy everyone would be rich.

Sorry for the rant but it annoys me enormously that everyone's acting like they bought a book on Amazon, when in reality they chose to put heir money on something incredibly risky in order to possibly make a ton of money. If you wanted safe, you could've bought a miner that was in stock. But of course that wouldn't have been nearly as profitable. I wonder why...

[giorgiotheclown]

Come the fuck on! Every single buyer should have understood that it's risky to put money on a pre order miner. You all read the BFL threads. That was a fucking success for everyone involved. Sure hook me up for some of that please!

Ohnoes, it's been 12 months and I still haven't cancelled my order. I want my 360% CPP. Yeah, right. It was pretty fucking clear from the beginning that you get 10% per 10 days until you reach 60 days and then you get your money back.

Yes, everyone's frustrated that the bet didn't pay off, but there is no free money! You thought you'd make a quick buck and it didn't work out. Yeah well, that's life. If it'd be that easy everyone would be rich.

Sorry for the rant but it annoys me enormously that everyone's acting like they bought a book on Amazon, when in reality they chose to put heir money on something incredibly risky in order to possibly make a ton of money. If you wanted safe, you could've bought a miner that was in stock. But of course that wouldn't have been nearly as profitable. I wonder why...

lol really?

our money was some kind of creditcard for giorgio?

or what?
and the petamine units?

[glendower]

What's the deal with changing the rules on the CPP months after we paid?

AFAIK the CPP is still the same.

Actually, that is one of the things I'm disappointed about.  The 50% cap is new.  There was no mention of a 50% cap when I placed my order, but I sincerely hope that I'll receive my order before then anyway.

Giorgio, I think you just need to take a few very simple steps to keep people happy.  Communication is the key in this regard, and that is something I'm sure you would agree is something that you've not been good at.  But you need to become proactive rather than reactive, which should result in less concerned customers contacting you.

How about once a week posting what the latest Desk / Rig order queue numbers are that have been shipped, along with details of the number of units shipped each week.  That way at least we will get a feel for how things are progressing.

And yes, add me to the list of customers who are disappointed that I haven't received my order, or replies to my emails, and have growing concerns about the money I have wasted on the order given the increasing difficulty levels.

[georgem]

Ohnoes, it's been 12 months and I still haven't cancelled my order. I want my 360% CPP. Yeah, right. It was pretty fucking clear from the beginning that you get 10% per 10 days until you reach 60 days and then you get your money back.

 

The CPP was advertized as a security against delay.
A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal.

It should only be tied to an actual case, like for example...
 to actually have the device built that you payed for.

Should they really need 12 months, then it's bitmines fault, and not ours.
Ofcourse we are talking hypothetical. And ofcourse most people will simply take the refund after 3 months for sure.
But here's the thing:
Many assumed they will get 70, 90, maybe 120 % ... bitmine made it look like they are willing to pay you for every day you additionally have (or choose) to wait. That was the whole idea behind the CPP.
If they protect you only for 50 days but could potentially still let you wait for additional 100 days.. what kind of CPP is that? None at all.
Because it protects you only against small damage, but not the real damage when you really have to wait...


This is not how a security plan works.

Imagine a fire insurance that only applies during January and February, but that doesn't secure you the rest of the year?

What kind of car insurance only pays for accidents you made while driving at a speed between 0 and 50 mph?  But doesn't pay with speeds upwards of 51 mph?


I say bitmine has mislead many customers with that CPP and the turbomode, and I think an investigation makes more and more sense.

I really would like to know how many people misunderstood the CPP... it seems like EVERYBODY...
the ones who don't know it yet are the ones who haven't yet really thought about it.

[georgem]

We should really start a petition and try to reach as many people as possible to tell us if they misunderstood the CPP, and were mislead by it.

It would counter the very manipulative behaviour of giorgiomassa who wants to make everyone believe that it's only a few outsiders who have a problem with the CPP:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486808.msg5617570#msg5617570

Why does he do that?

[rufu]

http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/Dubioses-Geschaeft-mit-Bitcoin-Rechnern-18031481

here we go guys...

… what I really do not understand:
In the interview with 20min.ch, Mr. Masserotto says:
Nun aber sind wir seit drei Wochen auf Kurs, produzieren 200 Einheiten die Woche und sind zuversichtlich, die Verspätungen bald einzuholen.»

Translation: since 3 weeks everythings works as expected and  bitmine reached a production of 200 units per week.

Hmm, this means, 600 units should be available? 

If I am not wrong, Retrogamer had queue positions around 60 ?
Of course, there are some units used for compensation, but between 60 and 600 is a huge difference.

For me, this makes no sense

[georgem]

Yes, everyone's frustrated that the bet didn't pay off, but there is no free money! You thought you'd make a quick buck and it didn't work out. Yeah well, that's life. If it'd be that easy everyone would be rich.

Well it was THAT easy for bitmine, so your argument is invalid.

Millions of dollars recieved,
handfuls of miners built,
zero fucks given.

[georgem]

For me, this makes no sense

I am sure bitmine can come up with any number of additional problems that have caused any additional delays.

They probably have the capacity to build enough machines now, but they lack very specific screws and bolts or something.

[Finnminer]

The CPP was advertized as a security against delay.
A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal.

After 60 days you get more money back than what you paid in the first place. How on earth can you see that as illegal or abusing anything? Name one mainstream company that offers better terms if you decide to cancel your order.

[tvskit]

We should really start a petition and try to reach as many people as possible to tell us if they misunderstood the CPP, and were mislead by it.

It would counter the very manipulative behaviour of giorgiomassa who wants to make everyone believe that it's only a few outsiders who have a problem with the CPP:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486808.msg5617570#msg5617570

Why does he do that?

+100500 

[georgem]

The CPP was advertized as a security against delay.
A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal.

After 60 days you get more money back than what you paid in the first place. How on earth can you see that as illegal or abusing anything? Name one mainstream company that offers better terms if you decide to cancel your order.

No, you misunderstood.
I said: I the one who is insured can't go and abuse the insurance. That's illegal.
So I can't force to make bitmine have a delay of 360 days... not in any legal way...

You made it sound like we are abusing the insurance by hoping that bitmine will need 360 days... so we can have a very high CPP return. That's ridiculous.

We don't hope anything.. we just want our devices built, godammit. The sole reason we payed.
The CPP shouldn't have triggered in the first place (that would have been the best case).
And an investigation should find out WHY every single customer has his CPP triggered. Is this intentional?
If an insurance is triggered for every single customer we have to assume that it was all planned all along...

Was there prior knowledge that this will happen, and were we customers intentionally mislead with "nice words" and "promises"?

So you see, your argument was ridiculous and I just wanted to point this out.

Having fireinsurance and hoping your house burns down is crazy.
Much like having CPP and hoping you get 360% for 1 year. It's crazy. It's abuse. For both bitmine and the customer.

[giorgiotheclown]

The CPP was advertized as a security against delay.
A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal.

After 60 days you get more money back than what you paid in the first place. How on earth can you see that as illegal or abusing anything? Name one mainstream company that offers better terms if you decide to cancel your order.

not if you paid with bitcoins lol.....

[Finnminer]

not if you paid with bitcoins lol.....

Well I paid in bitcoins and I'd get more back than I paid if I'd take the refund now. The ones who paid 60 BTC or something insane like that can't have made any calculations about possible future profits and still have paid as much as they did.

You made it sound like we are abusing the insurance by hoping that bitmine will need 360 days...

It honestly does sound a bit like that. When your 60 days are gone you can get more than a full refund so I really don't see what the problem is. Unless people are actually complaining that they didn't profit as much as they had hoped.

[giorgiotheclown]

not if you paid with bitcoins lol.....

Well I paid in bitcoins and I'd get more back than I paid if I'd take the refund now. The ones who paid 60 BTC or something insane like that can't have made any calculations about possible future profits and still have paid as much as they did.

You made it sound like we are abusing the insurance by hoping that bitmine will need 360 days...

It honestly does sound a bit like that. When your 60 days are gone you can get more than a full refund so I really don't see what the problem is. Unless people are actually complaining that they didn't profit as much as they had hoped.

i did the calculations and it was a good deal if the miner arrived in time...

are you giorgios lawyer or what?

you are one of the lucky one, there is no need to fuck the fucked customers...