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Author Topic: Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread  (Read 202902 times)
Flying Hellfish
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March 02, 2014, 11:45:16 AM
 #301

I truly hope the preorder madness has run its course.

I doubt it.  You'll recall that Bitmine offered a choice of a reservation queue and a preorder queue.  I always assumed they did it that way because they expected that only very few people would want to preorder.

In the end, though, the community chose to preorders pretty much their entire production for several months, and the reservation queue became essentially pointless.



In a market with imperfect information price is always set by the most optimistic investomers.  We are still quite aways off from the "in stock" only business model IMO.   
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March 02, 2014, 11:48:44 AM
 #302

Bitfury chips at 55nm can reach almost 0.7W/(GH/s) under-volt'ed.  I believe ASICMiner could improve on that at 40nm with under-volt'ed chips.  Although 0.2W/(GH/s) sounds similar to the bravado of all the other ASIC manufacturer's claims at simulation.  Even using large scale immersion cooling.

0.2W/GH does sound unreal for 40nm but asicminer is known to deliver. Also I do not believe immersion cooling will have any effect on the chip efficiency. It is used to for efficient cooling with high density.

Also something you forgot to take in to consideration in your calculations is that large scale mining operations (like AM) will be able to get electricity for a fraction of the price you pay.

Possibly because there are no 20nm foundries in China, 28nm fabrication only just became available these past few weeks.

I think you have 28nm confused with 20nm which just became available in the past few weeks. Also is there any reason AM needs to use a fab in china?
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March 02, 2014, 11:57:36 AM
Last edit: March 02, 2014, 12:37:24 PM by Roy Badami
 #303

Bitmine 28nm chips on low power: 0.35w/gh
Asicminer 40nm chips on low power: 0.2w/gh

The Bitmine chips might be that efficient on paper, but E's review of his 600GH Coincraft Desk shows it taking 1.08 J/GH at the wall in normal mode.  So right now Bitmine's power efficiency, measured at the wall, is about on a par with KNC or Bitfury.

As for low power mode, E's figures show barely any improvement over normal mode if I'm reading them right (down from 1.08 to 1.06 J/GH).  So looks like no real low power mode, at least for now.  Of course, this is probably because the chips are not being undervolted, which is needed for low power mode.

I'd like to believe this will be fixed in a future firmware release, but does anyone know whether the hardware currently shipping actually supports changing the core voltage?

roy

ETA: Anyone know what efficiencies Cointerra and Hashfast are getting at the wall?
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March 02, 2014, 02:21:33 PM
 #304

anyone news about shipping ?

6 days about 30 units a day -> must arround 180 ready units +- 10 %, i think...

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March 02, 2014, 02:42:40 PM
 #305

anyone news about shipping ?

6 days about 30 units a day -> must arround 180 ready units +- 10 %, i think...


ask petamine http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1PETAmNrgdzx3FwzJPNuhx18JVKdGtwWt6

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March 02, 2014, 03:57:47 PM
 #306

anyone news about shipping ?

6 days about 30 units a day -> must arround 180 ready units +- 10 %, i think...


the last shippment received went to horrorhorst (regarding to posts) que 36 and ordernumber 14xx ordered in June 2013 (8 months waiting time)

2,5 months delay by now, means ordering now with April 2 Week batch means July 1 Week shippment for the Desks. Badly, RIGS are not delivered until now Sad

the last shippment received went to Rave que 39
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March 02, 2014, 04:00:07 PM
 #307

Alright, after a day on vacation in a customs warehouse in Kentucky, my order has been delivered. Two 15kg boxes, 45cm x 45cm x 25cm; box strong but slightly undertaped.

Barcode sticker on side of box with "Made In Switzerland By Bitmine AG" and a unique serial number: CCD000023 and CCD000024 (we'll see if this is a dangerous info leak); matching stickers applied to invoice in airbill packet. This is a good sign about bitmine's processes and a a nice touch for those depreciating or otherwise accounting for these items.

Handwritten (in pencil) "+600" on airbill, which corresponds to the CPP bonus.

What would you guys like pictures of?

e

I'm in CA, so I expect my delivery to go through SFO  -- how difficult was the customs process?

~nh

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March 02, 2014, 05:22:40 PM
 #308

If you dont pay BTC for your miner then.......?
You would be better off buying BTC for the fiat.

well, to be fair no one can know that at this point....
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March 02, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
 #309

If you dont pay BTC for your miner then.......?
You would be better off buying BTC for the fiat.

well, to be fair no one can know that at this point....
Sure you can.

The argument was that it makes no sense to spend 10 BTC on a miner that will produce 5 BTC. It makes just as little sense to spend $5500 on the miner. It might make a fiat profit if the BTC price goes up, but buying 10 BTC would make an even bigger profit. And even if the price goes down 10 BTC is still worth more than 5 BTC.
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March 02, 2014, 08:07:21 PM
 #310

because this is not a official thread, so i join this discussion.



Optimization is more important than rushing to a smaller process size.

Bitmine 28nm chips on low power: 0.35w/gh
Asicminer 40nm chips on low power: 0.2w/gh

Although the AM specs are only simulated I think they will end up pretty close.

Saving money as well as time is why they went with 40nm. Why spend 10 million in nre to make 20nm chips when you can make equally efficient 40nm chips?

I have no doubt that eventually smaller process sizes will come out on top, but it is not with these chips(maybe v2). We will probably have 14nm chips by the time a 20/28nm chip is fully optimized.

With all that said it does look like bitmine does have the most efficient chips as of now. Much more impressive than cointerra/hashfast.

compare estimate power consumption with actual measurement is unreasonable. this is not about cheating or something like that.

this is because to estimate a chip's exact dynamic power is very hard. a order of magnitude estimate is not bad on new process node (<90nm).



Fully agree. Right now, the manufacturers are in an arms race, and because time to market is so important, they are taking shortcuts. This in itself is not egregious, but as things slow down and sanity rears its head, things will change.

I think the next iteration of ASIC design will not be aimed so much at lower process mode, but at designing from the ground up for efficiency. It is my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that most, if not all, of the current bitcoin ASICs are essentially miniaturized FPGA arrays rather than a complete ground-up design. Thus they have a lot of room for reducing redundancies, thus freeing up a lot of silicon real estate. Die shrinks make them bigger and badder fast, but they are not truly optimized. Since the ASIC essentially has one relatively simple task, I suspect that we will soon see chips with much better efficiencies and higher hashrates. But it will probably be a year or more, as that's a much more difficult proposition than what is currently being done.

I truly hope the preorder madness has run its course. Without that perverse incentive, companies will have to focus more on quality and innovation. 

there are many poor designs, but we only can see very few of them on market. in fact, present designs are pretty good, most of optimization method already been used.


The Bitmine chips might be that efficient on paper, but E's review of his 600GH Coincraft Desk shows it taking 1.08 J/GH at the wall in normal mode.  So right now Bitmine's power efficiency, measured at the wall, is about on a par with KNC or Bitfury.

As for low power mode, E's figures show barely any improvement over normal mode if I'm reading them right (down from 1.08 to 1.06 J/GH).  So looks like no real low power mode, at least for now.  Of course, this is probably because the chips are not being undervolted, which is needed for low power mode.

I'd like to believe this will be fixed in a future firmware release, but does anyone know whether the hardware currently shipping actually supports changing the core voltage?

roy

ETA: Anyone know what efficiencies Cointerra and Hashfast are getting at the wall?

running at a low voltage will significantly increase power efficiency. under 1V, avalon gen2 is 2.5W/G on chip, under 0.8V is 1.45W/G. 42% improve.

but on lower process node, the voltage is already lower to 0.9V, further lower to 0.7V will cause extreme slow clock speed.

as well as, the chips them self is extremely expensive .  running them on a low clock speed is a obvious lose.


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March 02, 2014, 09:38:07 PM
 #311


Does this mean the production capacity just doubled from 30 to 60 desks per day?

It seems not.
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March 02, 2014, 09:56:22 PM
 #312

what i wonder about is if they have massive delays why wont they do everything to improve delivery time?
like having 3 shifts on rotation, working during weekends/holidays, etc until the situation is under control

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March 02, 2014, 11:35:53 PM
 #313

I think you have 28nm confused with 20nm which just became available in the past few weeks.

Not in China.
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March 03, 2014, 12:40:49 AM
 #314

what i wonder about is if they have massive delays why wont they do everything to improve delivery time?
like having 3 shifts on rotation, working during weekends/holidays, etc until the situation is under control

i found this... ROFL..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg4842175#msg4842175

""Six production lines on two daily shifts is the way to recover from a delay very, very fast!""





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March 03, 2014, 05:20:53 AM
 #315



The status quo of the pbcs is nominal mode 12 volt working. no turbo, no power safe. This week the 24 volt pcbs should come from production (speculation).

I personally think (speculate), their pcb supplier (maybe) can not deliver so fast. Thats because bitmine is experimenting with the design of the boards, which are using parts with special specification. On the other hand (main reason), they dont want to order 5000 pcbs, when there is still alot of improvement to do. So they are ordering 500 pieces, make a change and are ordering again 500 pieces.

Its good that they decided to ramp out the production of the desks, even no finished one. Thats giving me trust in bitmine, that they really stil care.

Conclusion: They can recover fast, with multiple productionlines when they decide that their pcbs are ready to go to heavy massproduction.




What are you talking... have you ever read that post or the official one?


Code:
Thats giving me trust in bitmine, that they really stil care.

How many GH Giorgio is giving you for free? Funny thing is a few people (all new accounts) are regulary posting such shit like you. Bitmine is giving a fuck on you, ROI and your money - are you stupid or just fake?

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March 03, 2014, 05:26:29 AM
 #316

I think you have 28nm confused with 20nm which just became available in the past few weeks.

Not in China.

TSMC has a 20nm fab in taiwan.
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March 03, 2014, 12:30:52 PM
 #317

I think this was beyond their control, the reputation damage for the company is very bad. Plus Swiss law is quite strict, so once the refunds start coming to effect, it could very well kill the company in combination with the CPP (I know it's not much, but delays are also not that advantageous for them either).

It's always been a gamble and every mining company goes from hero to zero in no time for whatever reason.

So I hope for the best, and that they throw in something extra as compensation. And yes I invested my fair share as well. But no point in howling with the wolves. Live and learn.


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March 03, 2014, 03:33:45 PM
 #318

Any update on shipped orders?  Huh
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March 03, 2014, 04:02:08 PM
 #319

Hello guys, I received my two Coincraft Desk + one (as 50% compensation) last friday and I wish to share my first thoughts:

- like KNC, I had to open the side panel and sort out cables and connectors
- as a private person, I had to pay the VAT for every Coincraft to the courier, since every order is not including the tax amount

The device itself is quite noisy (a bit more than KNC Jupiter October batch) and very-very heavy (20 kilograms for the fully populated 1TH version).
The case is made in steel, good overall quality.

Technically it reminds me the Avalons, with five hashing boards, a connecting bridge and the logical unit that (instead of a Tplink router) boost a Raspberry PI connected to a custom board and a 20x2 LCD screen.

By now I managed only to configure it using the web-interface (just open the IP address on the LCD from the browser), since I got the SSH access, but there's no "screen" to tamper with, so I get the information from cgminer only from the LOG tool.

In turbo mode it's not going above 1.22TH/s, with high temperatures (easily over 70° on a vented rack) with very good efficiency (about 1200 watt). I hope that Bitmine will release a new firmware soon, since the PSU is Enermax Platimax 1500w and probably can handle the promised 1.5 TH/s

I'm not going to tell you that Bitmine is "yet another scam", but I must say that they come too late on the market, with just a good product.

Now the spammy part: I'm selling one of the three Coincraft, since I've no room/electricity for it. I only ship to an Italian address, maybe you can manage anyway to get it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495912.0

Acquista il mio libro "Investire Bitcoin": clicca qui
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March 03, 2014, 04:07:47 PM
 #320

May we have your queue number?
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