Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[jimmy3dita]

May we have your queue number?

I asked for it multiple times, unfortunately I don't know. My order number was 139x and I come from Avalon Clone batch 2 order, converted into Coincraft in September.

[Gaglam]

ok, thanks anyway for the info

[RHA]

Order #16xx, Sep 16th, queue #75, was sent on Friday and now is at clearing agency.

[Finnminer]

Hello guys, I received my two Coincraft Desk + one (as 50% compensation)

- as a private person, I had to pay the VAT for every Coincraft to the courier, since every order is not including the tax amount

Did you have to pay VAT even for the free one? That doesn't sound right.

[xray]

Hello guys, I received my two Coincraft Desk + one (as 50% compensation)

- as a private person, I had to pay the VAT for every Coincraft to the courier, since every order is not including the tax amount

Did you have to pay VAT even for the free one? That doesn't sound right.

Ye . like to get the heads up how much we are looking to expect to pay ?

[stevebrowne]

That sounds dodgy to me. Surely the VALUE of the total items delivered is the same as it was before they added free hashing units/additional desk units etc. How can you pay VAT for something you get for free?

Representatives of Bitmine - this is important - can you please respond?

From HMRC (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/tax-and-duty.htm#3)

Import VAT rate
The percentage charged is the same VAT rate that applies to similar goods that are sold in the UK.
The import VAT percentage rate is applied to the total value of the goods. In the case of goods brought in this is the sterling equivalent of the price paid abroad, as shown on the receipt. In the case of goods posted from outside the EU, it is the amount on the Customs Declaration, which includes the price paid for the goods, the cost of transport, postage and packing, insurance and any duty that may be payable.

So Bitmine should only be including "the price paid for the goods, the cost of transport, postage and packing, insurance"

If they put additional value on the invoice that covers any free units then they are doing it wrong and costing people extra money for no reason at all.

[GodfatherBond]

What amounts have been marked on shipping documents?
If ordered with -15% or -20% discount is it discounted amount or original price on invoice?
MPP units... what amount for them?

[Fireminer]

Hello guys, I received my two Coincraft Desk + one (as 50% compensation)

- as a private person, I had to pay the VAT for every Coincraft to the courier, since every order is not including the tax amount

Did you have to pay VAT even for the free one? That doesn't sound right.

Ye . like to get the heads up how much we are looking to expect to pay ?

FYI: a week ago I received the following explanation from Bitmine (asking about VAT to be paid if I personally pick it up, instead of being sent to me):
Hi Mr. XXXXX,
If you select to pick up the device from us in Switzerland you will need to pay to us the 8% which is the Swiss VAT.
When you arrive to your home customs you will have to declare the products that you are importing and you will have to send us the documentation from the customs stamped in order to receive the 8% that you have paid to us back. Of course that means that you will have to pay then the VAT of your country.

[RetroGamer]

Hello guys, I received my two Coincraft Desk + one (as 50% compensation)

- as a private person, I had to pay the VAT for every Coincraft to the courier, since every order is not including the tax amount

Did you have to pay VAT even for the free one? That doesn't sound right.

Ye . like to get the heads up how much we are looking to expect to pay ?

FYI: a week ago I received the following explanation from Bitmine (asking about VAT to be paid if I personally pick it up, instead of being sent to me):
Hi Mr. XXXXX,
If you select to pick up the device from us in Switzerland you will need to pay to us the 8% which is the Swiss VAT.
When you arrive to your home customs you will have to declare the products that you are importing and you will have to send us the documentation from the customs stamped in order to receive the 8% that you have paid to us back. Of course that means that you will have to pay then the VAT of your country.

TOS
2.5 The price of the goods shown on the Website is exclusive of VAT (where applicable) at the relevant rate chargeable in Switzerland at the date of your order.

[jegersmart]

the only reason I wanted to buy from bitmine was because of the turbomode. without this, their price is too high unfortunately.

Once I receive the goods, if there is no turbo mode I will take it from there.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31997L0007:EN:HTML

J

[RetroGamer]

the only reason I wanted to buy from bitmine was because of the turbomode. without this, their price is too high unfortunately.

Once I receive the goods, if there is no turbo mode I will take it from there.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31997L0007:EN:HTML

J

point and under what is that you get your turbo mode?
bitmine has the word up to explain and thus would be the turbo mode as an extra to look at and not as a component of the miners :-)

Turbo mode issues
All of our products have been sold, stated and guaranteed in NOMINAL HASHING POWER. For example, product model CCD-800 is a CoinCraft Desk 800GH/s, CCD-1000 is a CoinCraft Desk 1000GH/s and so on. The Turbo feature is by purpose indicated as "up to", which if I'm not wrong given http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/up-to?q=up+to , means literally "indicating a maximum amount". This is depending on overall operating conditions and will vary depending on your specific use case scenario, while the nominal power is guaranteed to work always. This is exactly what has been done here, the 1TH/s nominal units can reach easily 1.3TH/s in normal operating conditions (read: 25°C ambient temperature) and up to 1.5TH/s when conditions such as very low ambient air temperatures and a more powerful power supply are provided. Let me explain this again with different words: it's not that your unit will not reach the highest peak of the Turbo mode, it will but based on the specific conditions in which you operate it.

[Daveb0]

the only reason I wanted to buy from bitmine was because of the turbomode. without this, their price is too high unfortunately.

Once I receive the goods, if there is no turbo mode I will take it from there.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31997L0007:EN:HTML

J

point and under what is that you get your turbo mode?
bitmine has the word up to explain and thus would be the turbo mode as an extra to look at and not as a component of the miners :-)

Turbo mode issues
All of our products have been sold, stated and guaranteed in NOMINAL HASHING POWER. For example, product model CCD-800 is a CoinCraft Desk 800GH/s, CCD-1000 is a CoinCraft Desk 1000GH/s and so on. The Turbo feature is by purpose indicated as "up to", which if I'm not wrong given http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/up-to?q=up+to , means literally "indicating a maximum amount". This is depending on overall operating conditions and will vary depending on your specific use case scenario, while the nominal power is guaranteed to work always. This is exactly what has been done here, the 1TH/s nominal units can reach easily 1.3TH/s in normal operating conditions (read: 25°C ambient temperature) and up to 1.5TH/s when conditions such as very low ambient air temperatures and a more powerful power supply are provided. Let me explain this again with different words: it's not that your unit will not reach the highest peak of the Turbo mode, it will but based on the specific conditions in which you operate it.

again: this is only true for the Desks. There is not such dirty trick regarding the turbo mode when it comes to the Rigs.

[RetroGamer]

the only reason I wanted to buy from bitmine was because of the turbomode. without this, their price is too high unfortunately.

Once I receive the goods, if there is no turbo mode I will take it from there.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31997L0007:EN:HTML

J

point and under what is that you get your turbo mode?
bitmine has the word up to explain and thus would be the turbo mode as an extra to look at and not as a component of the miners :-)

Turbo mode issues
All of our products have been sold, stated and guaranteed in NOMINAL HASHING POWER. For example, product model CCD-800 is a CoinCraft Desk 800GH/s, CCD-1000 is a CoinCraft Desk 1000GH/s and so on. The Turbo feature is by purpose indicated as "up to", which if I'm not wrong given http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/up-to?q=up+to , means literally "indicating a maximum amount". This is depending on overall operating conditions and will vary depending on your specific use case scenario, while the nominal power is guaranteed to work always. This is exactly what has been done here, the 1TH/s nominal units can reach easily 1.3TH/s in normal operating conditions (read: 25°C ambient temperature) and up to 1.5TH/s when conditions such as very low ambient air temperatures and a more powerful power supply are provided. Let me explain this again with different words: it's not that your unit will not reach the highest peak of the Turbo mode, it will but based on the specific conditions in which you operate it.

again: this is only true for the Desks. There is not such dirty trick regarding the turbo mode when it comes to the Rigs.

up there too at some point up to is :-)

[jegersmart]

I have confirmation in writing that there is a "turbo mode" and that under nominal conditions should produce up to 1.5TH. So there are 2 elements:

1. Does a "turbo mode" exist on the unit I may receive?

2. In a case of determining the "up to" issue, a "nominal" set of conditions have to be given and once recreated if the unit does not produce then in the UK we would be protected by the "Sale of Goods Act", although in Switzerland, EEA and EU this would be different. I highly doubt that a company can misrepresent their goods in writing without penalty. Even in Switzerland.

In any case, we will see what happens - I have March 4 week on my order confirmed - so I guess this will be June although possibly it will be in 2015 in 20nm form at (or a lot before) I will use it as a doorstop..

J

[RetroGamer]

I have confirmation in writing that there is a "turbo mode" and that under nominal conditions should produce up to 1.5TH. So there are 2 elements:

1. Does a "turbo mode" exist on the unit I may receive?

2. In a case of determining the "up to" issue, a "nominal" set of conditions have to be given and once recreated if the unit does not produce then in the UK we would be protected by the "Sale of Goods Act", although in Switzerland, EEA and EU this would be different. I highly doubt that a company can misrepresent their goods in writing without penalty. Even in Switzerland.

In any case, we will see what happens - I have March 4 week on my order confirmed - so I guess this will be June although possibly it will be in 2015 in 20nm form at (or a lot before) I will use it as a doorstop..

J

unfortunately they wrote at that time from the beginning of this:

Technical specifications * of the CoinCraft A1 ASIC:

• Developed on 28nm process HPP from Globalfoundries
• Custom IC package with power bars for low voltage, high current feeding
• Configurable in daisy chain fashion for distributed work with up to 253 ASICs.
• Standard SPI interface
• hashing power of 25 GH / s in nominal and up to 40 GH / s in Turbo mode
• Power usage of 12:35 W / GH in low power, 0.6 W / GH in nominal and 1 W / GH in Turbo mode
• Supply voltage of 0.65V at low power, 0.765 V in nominal terms and 0.85 V in Turbo mode
• Mass production available starting from the second week of December 2013

* Please note that while we Took The highest possible care in doing accurate and conservative simulations, the real performances of the final product Could vary by a + / - 20% tolerance.

that would mean the turbo mode must go only up to 1.3 TH / s

[Daveb0]

again: this is only true for the Desks. There is not such dirty trick regarding the turbo mode when it comes to the Rigs.

up there too at some point up to is :-)

I still don't see an "up to" regarding the turbo mode for the rigs. Can you post this specific part of the Rig product description?

But theres another funny "up to" part which they still haven't corrected

"Rack mountable in a standard 19” form factor and highly scalable with up to 17 hashing cards, the Rig can be configured [...]"

I'd really look forward to this 4U 4.25THs unit

[Daveb0]

I have confirmation in writing that there is a "turbo mode" and that under nominal conditions should produce up to 1.5TH. So there are 2 elements:

1. Does a "turbo mode" exist on the unit I may receive?

2. In a case of determining the "up to" issue, a "nominal" set of conditions have to be given and once recreated if the unit does not produce then in the UK we would be protected by the "Sale of Goods Act", although in Switzerland, EEA and EU this would be different. I highly doubt that a company can misrepresent their goods in writing without penalty. Even in Switzerland.

In any case, we will see what happens - I have March 4 week on my order confirmed - so I guess this will be June although possibly it will be in 2015 in 20nm form at (or a lot before) I will use it as a doorstop..

J

unfortunately they wrote at that time from the beginning of this:

Technical specifications * of the CoinCraft A1 ASIC:

• Developed on 28nm process HPP from Globalfoundries
• Custom IC package with power bars for low voltage, high current feeding
• Configurable in daisy chain fashion for distributed work with up to 253 ASICs.
• Standard SPI interface
• hashing power of 25 GH / s in nominal and up to 40 GH / s in Turbo mode
• Power usage of 12:35 W / GH in low power, 0.6 W / GH in nominal and 1 W / GH in Turbo mode
• Supply voltage of 0.65V at low power, 0.765 V in nominal terms and 0.85 V in Turbo mode
• Mass production available starting from the second week of December 2013

* Please note that while we Took The highest possible care in doing accurate and conservative simulations, the real performances of the final product Could vary by a + / - 20% tolerance.

that would mean the turbo mode must go only up to 1.3 TH / s

This are specs rearding the "turbo mode" of the CoinCraft A1 ASIC. But I bought a Rig.

So apart from the fact, that there is no way, they can legitimate not meeting the advertised product spec for the product I bought by refering to another spec from I product which I did not buy, this argumentation would lead to the absurd requirement that the customer would have to double check by himself that each and every component they use in their final product, to verify that the avertised specs of the product he buys are valid or not.
Or did you for example verify that the Raspberry Pi board actually has enough capacity to serve all (lets assume) 96 hashing Chips in a Rig continuosly?

But we're anyhow speculating about the final product, which might actually meet the advertised turbo mode. So let's wait a few weeks until the Rig prototype is ready, and then we can continue with this discussion when we have the facts.

[jimmy3dita]

Guys, just to be clear: Italian customs are nuts, they "wonder" the value of any shipment since everyone here does the invoice trick (e.g. Declare 100 dolla instead of 1000 dolla).

So in my case they have seen three identical products, and simply asked me a value declaration for each of them. Since the risk here is the seizure of any "free compensation", I simply declared the overall price I paid splitted on three products instead of two.

Unfortunately they applied the "dolla law" and wondered the value by themselves, with results you can easily imagine

Lesson learned: if you come from Italy, pick the fuc*ing car and grab the miners by yourself.


And it's not much better than Knc, do you remember the missing VAT emails?

[mo_mo]

The people who ordered the rig who have an earlier queue are now behind the later batches for desks...so what's the update with this?
I rather change my order to desks then..there is no beneficial of having a RIG

[GH]

Lesson learned: if you come from Italy, pick the fuc*ing car and grab the miners by yourself.

Serious question:
Yes, but do you think that would really make a difference? I would have been afraid that this only moves the drama towards the border station, where you declare the miners for import.
Or are you sure to be lucky and get away with the 8% VAT paid in switzerland as no one cares and stops you when you drive with your own private car?