[NEM] Public auditing of stakeholder list

[gadado]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

[utopianfuture]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

[dzarmush]

Super-fraudster!
rmoraos bought one stake http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6744761866455172564
sent coins to ipozom http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=1752570338867511344 and bought another one
sent coins to lisliam http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14708189734670584102 and bought another one
sent coins to CryptoWolf http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=8396673716759716229 and bought another one
sent coins to YeahBaby http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=8750699220827834397 and bought another one
sent coins to Nem_fanatic http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12054611375274674440 and bought another one
sent coins to Nabopolasar http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10552140460766036850 and bought another one
sent coins to Goku999 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=225897227862406839 and bought another one

BUT! The most important. He made hundreds addresses, got money from giveaways and sent them all to one address. I think such people shoudn't have any stakes at all. And all their money should be spend on promotion.

----------------------------------------

Bought 2 stakes from one account for
FromRussiaWithLove http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=17184807848614228944

----------------------------------------

Can't find name bought one stake http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=13047947996864699800
sent coins to tomahawkerson http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=15807217056481604769 and bought another one
sent coins to smirnofdrinker http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14923997250248100484 and bought another one
sent coins to eddyvce http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=13136144113239476606 and bought another one
sent coins to stigodump http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6485112358310408255 and bought another one
sent coins to lazylife2014 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14116699662588787589 and bought another one
sent coins to cheekymonkey12 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14715764950942078464 and bought another one
sent coins to slavedriver26 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14666055823229218659 and bought another one
sent coins to mindblown http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=9567590364949837365 and bought another one
sent coins to SLIPSTER14 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=13687985071763379082 and bought another one

cheekymonkey12 sent coins to sticktoit http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=17363369942715718306 and bought another one
mindblown sent coins to VKNP60 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=5326647462449553800 and bought another one
mindblown  sent coins to numbed http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=1408683903169815769 and bought another one
SLIPSTER14 sent coins to greatlife http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=1296487530101824469 and bought another one
SLIPSTER14 sent coins to smilingatit http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6552554411702193771 and bought another one
stigodump sent coins to welderman48 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10567818661444322212 and bought another one
stigodump sent coins to curlyheed65 http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6728358855422136775 and bought another one

----------------------------------------

nekedos bought one stake http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=18054970961821901886
sent coins to begedom, kovgankon which is one account http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=714468184703628443 and bought 2 stakes
sent coins to saintfire http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3291273365040740516 and bought another one

[dzarmush]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

[JakeThePanda]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

[sfinder]

1) I did try to get folks think this fundraising twice before sending money since no white paper no detail development plan at that time and I also communicated with utopianfuture that if i am wrong I will say sorry to him once this coin go live.

2)I spread NEM to some chinese alt-coin community that was how I get a 2nd stake for my MOM in china.


But any way , good work. Thanks

Can anybody tell me why the guy named "sfinder" appears FOUR times in the thread 2 of stakeholder list?

He even said NEM is just a SCAM.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448248.0

Maybe he will spread NEM to the world and the mooooooon
Prove it

[dzarmush]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

Did someone already find your sockpuppets? 

[dzarmush]

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:


Say I'll check the last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

[j23a]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

He said that a person can have one stake for one account, and if they wanted they can have another stake for a family member, but with a different bitcointalk account.

Ever since the beginning, the number one issue as the fundraising was active was preventing sockpuppet accounts. With the community passionately against the idea of people with multiple stakeholders, and with Utopianfuture an others checking for cheaters. So I don't know how it could have been communicated to someone that it was within the rules to create many, many, sockpuppet accounts. I mean maybe you misread it, but if you read the discussion thread on a daily basis you would see that that wasn't the case, and nobody thought that what you described was ok.

[Xpedite]

Not your standard fraudster , but still a fraudster :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4896500#msg4896500

This logo was stolen from the internet.

http://www.nemgroup.com/

[Xpedite]

And then there is this one:
He is marked with a Y  based upon this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4865396#msg4865396

However, I assumed he would be removed base upon the quote below:

You skipped me in the other thread and I haven't received a response.

EDIT:

I wasn't sure if this is what you were looking for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441041.new#new

I was at spot 1074 in the previous thread but it seems like there is another person on there (1074).

If you did not reply in the registration thread (with proof of payment or promotion), then you did not reserve a stake spot.

Yes I did - a Dutch promotion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441041.new#new

But I'm still not on the list. Are you kidding me 

@Utopianfuture : FYI This guy changed his original post into a scam warning on the dutch forums.  He complained that you were not responding to his questions. I have replied to this and explained he did not qualify since the conditions were not met in the first place. Here is the post where I replied to him: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441041.0

Thanks a lot. He did not seem to read the front page carefully.

[patmast3r]

Not your standard fraudster , but still a fraudster :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4896500#msg4896500

This logo was stolen from the internet.

http://www.nemgroup.com/

Yeah I've pointed that out already as well but forgot about it since it's been some time. I'll put him down for "refund". Nothing to refund rly but he should be removed.

[gadado]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

He said that a person can have one stake for one account, and if they wanted they can have another stake for a family member, but with a different bitcointalk account.

Ever since the beginning, the number one issue as the fundraising was active was preventing sockpuppet accounts. With the community passionately against the idea of people with multiple stakeholders, and with Utopianfuture an others checking for cheaters. So I don't know how it could have been communicated to someone that it was within the rules to create many, many, sockpuppet accounts. I mean maybe you misread it, but if you read the discussion thread on a daily basis you would see that that wasn't the case, and nobody thought that what you described was ok.

People openly created sockpuppet accounts. It wasn't liked but It was OK to do then. How do you explain that somone forexample simple called them
sockpuppet_1
sockpuppet_2
sockpuppet_x
and it was accepted? The rule was simple 1 stack for 1 account and thats it. There was no "don't cretae multiple accounts" In fact the devs opinion or at least what he communicated was that the work is too much so only a few will do it and no envy! this was very "blue" eyed.

Listen I don't want to go fighting here. I too think everyone should only get 1 stack because that's fair. However I just want to remember you all that this thing was started all different.

[j23a]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

He said that a person can have one stake for one account, and if they wanted they can have another stake for a family member, but with a different bitcointalk account.

Ever since the beginning, the number one issue as the fundraising was active was preventing sockpuppet accounts. With the community passionately against the idea of people with multiple stakeholders, and with Utopianfuture an others checking for cheaters. So I don't know how it could have been communicated to someone that it was within the rules to create many, many, sockpuppet accounts. I mean maybe you misread it, but if you read the discussion thread on a daily basis you would see that that wasn't the case, and nobody thought that what you described was ok.

People openly created sockpuppet accounts. It wasn't liked but It was OK to do then. How do you explain that somone forexample simple called them
sockpuppet_1
sockpuppet_2
sockpuppet_x
and it was accepted? The rule was simple 1 stack for 1 account and thats it. There was no "don't cretae multiple accounts" In fact the devs opinion or at least what he communicated was that the work is too much so only a few will do it and no envy! this was very "blue" eyed.

Listen I don't want to go fighting here. I too think everyone should only get 1 stack because that's fair. However I just want to remember you all that this thing was started all different.

Like I said, Utopian always said one account one stake, and ONE more for a family members. During the many discussions about sock poppet, during the discussion thread, not on the main page, to calm down the people complaining Utopian said that if a person went through all that trouble to make more accounts that they probably deserved it because they're showing real interest in Nem. But if they were found out, they will still get refunded. He has always said that they would be refunded, and what you were referring to was one comment in the discussion thread that was more of an acceptance that they won't be able to completely eliminate all sock poppets, and somewhat looking for a positive angle of acceptance because he cannot spend his whole time worrying about something that he cannot completely control. I remember the comment well because I saw it as Utopian looking at the big picture, rather than completely focusing his time in a jealous rage.

If he indeed meant what you said, then those people would have started complaining even stronger. The main thing is what he wrote on the original page, and the retro active modifications made after that don't affect the people before.

What would be more official, a random comment in a thread with over 3,200 other comments, essentially saying that if they can't catch them, then they probably deserve it. Or the official comment on the main page saying, one account one stake, and one stake for a family member?

[j23a]

Ok, here's what Utopian said

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4973318#msg4973318

You could create an account for family members, he thanks them for their trust like I remembered. He also said that they did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. They will refund them later in the cases of big multi-accounters.

He also said something similar in the first page.

In the first page he said that they would welcome all of your family to join Nem, but again, any unfairly accumulation will be refunded. He also said that only two stakes can be bought from one address.

What I get is that Nem wants to be one account for one person, including your family members, but any attempt of collecting more than one account for yourself would be refunded. If you try to buy more than two stakes with the same NXT or BTC address, the 3rd and 4th one could be considered a donation.

Yes it's a confusing mess, but logic will tell you that they don't want any sock puppets, else they would allow you to buy multiple stakes with your account, vs saying that it's ok for friends and family to join, but also having them be active members of the community.

If anyone was dumb enough to mindlessly assume that sock puppets are allowed, and then proceeded to create multiple accounts with the same address and connected addresses, then that was dumb.

[patmast3r]

This is from the first post of the first registration thread. It has always been there from the very start:

However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

This is exactly what is happening right now. It's also not like we're mindlessly refunding people. We're compiling a list. Everyone that is falsely accused can still speak up and make their case. If they have plausible and believeable arguments they will not be refunded.

[syjrmswx]

Can anybody tell me why the guy named "sfinder" appears FOUR times in the thread 2 of stakeholder list?

He even said NEM is just a SCAM.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448248.0

Maybe he will spread NEM to the world and the mooooooon
Prove it

+1

[cryptoraid999]

Tracking a big multi-accounts guy with 40+ accounts...

Found 4 so far:

overthetop2011
6cb1b5a2c2de12bf44ab03e36d157531774631905a58edc048078246f51051a0

LifeisGreat88088
cf3d243b13c27d47efbed5c4d6504679919dccf9e996331ce601f398021e9a8e

25104070
efb57b9e127584245b448ddeb66d8922dffb80888320dcf8603b6b5870a4b599

omanibeimeihong123
0ffe6d78a94a4382e068f17046b79af31fae633cf16bbb38a74953b561305b73

[mikesbmw]

Wow, I did not expect big fish anymore!
Great job!

Unfortunately I have a day job and a family, otherwise I would gladly help you...  Free time is very scarce to me

[signingoff]

Great job. Thanks to the community.