The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud truffa

[eliale]

Thank you!!!!!

[s1lverbox]

Thanks @mirae and @eliale for this technical mumbo jumbo. I guess crypto in Italy is well regulated if you asking for kyc based only on balance of every user in your exchange? Are you doing kyc fully towards your all customer base or on random basis based on currency and balance they hold?

Last excuse was that OP had fiat sitting in his account ,which he never asked to withdraw. So my question stands: just holding fiat constitute to kyc in your exchange?
Because I dont believe crypto is really the reason for this kyc. And hiding behind kyc and AML only proves you stuck and don't know where to go with this. Unfortunately centralised services like this are real issue in crypto sphere. You wish to be recognized as tech /crypto place but using some first degree shit kyc and aml excuses to limit people from using their own assets. Or you wish to move away from those handcuffs of old days or you just hiding behind crypto to carry on like use to be with banks etc.
Your name of the service I believe is already damaged, and therefore u behaving this way. Because you know there is nothing more to loose.
That's my opinion. 

[JollyGood]

Thank you!!!!!

Thank you too because you have exposed yourself as opportunistic selective scammers that do not deserve any credit at all.

It gives me great pleasure to add your scam to my Scam Alert signature. Rock Trading scam will never get any benefit of any doubt from any users in this forum.

You stole from the OP and in order to keep hold of the stolen money you have made more excuses than there are by criminals in a Sherlock Holmes novel.

Shame on you.

[Coinfan]

Mirae just posted the translation, he isn't endorsing this misleading "legal opinion". I know he also thinks they are scammers.

Thanks also for the continuous support of Jollygood and s1lverbox.

Anyone thinking they are scammers/liars, please give them negative feedback, to both Rock founders (thanks for r34tr783tr78 and Jollygood on eliale), since Paci by remaining silent isn't fulfilling his duties (so he is an accomplice) and he also wrote me the very suspicious email of 21 August 2018 (see OP).

eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648


Let's warn the community about them with permanent negative feedback.

They quote the Legislative Decree No. 231/2007 without making clear that they are doing so with the changes made by (the several times quoted by me) Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017.

And they invoke the correct article, article 3, n.º 5, i), which has the name "subjected entities" and defines who is subjected to it and its duties of KYC and AML, but they don't quote the article, misleading every one with a completely illegal interpretation.

It says:
"i prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta virtuale, limitatamente allo svolgimento dell'attivita' di
conversione di valute virtuali da ovvero in valute aventi corso forzoso.".

Which means:
"service providers related to the use of virtual currency, limited to the performance of the activity of
conversion of virtual currencies from or into currencies with a forced course".

So, only the conversion of crypto into fiat is subjected to KYC and AML. It doesn't say trading or exchanging, but converting activities: that is, transferring the money from mere "I owe you" sitting on their balance to real fiat by withdrawing them to the banking system.

The decree used very carefully its words and the "limitatamente/limited" is there with the clear intention to restrict the duties of crypto exchanges in order to avoid interfering unnecessarily with technological development on this area.

If any act of trading crypto/fiat on their exchange were subjected to due diligence and KYC their TOS and FAQ would be illegal.

But they aren't illegal as is confirmed by the fact that their TOS and FAQ were approved by the italian authorities when they moved back from Malta to Italy this year.

It's because of this that their FAQ says:
“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

And they are misleadingly invoking the 5th AML european directive that hasn't been yet adopted by Italy on its internal Law, so can't be applied to private persons.

This can't be legal ignorance. It's just legal bad practice. This just confirms that they paid for a misleading legal opinion.

Article 288 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (formerly Article 249 TEC):
    "A directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods."

I already completely debunked their TOS as a ground for what they are doing several times:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47649687#msg47649687

Anyone believes they are breaching their FAQ/TOS and italian law, raising doubts about my ownership that they know are lies and enduring the condemnation of several members of the community only to get 2 jpgs from me?

[Mirae]

Thanks @mirae and @eliale for this technical mumbo jumbo. I guess crypto in Italy is well regulated if you asking for kyc based only on balance of every user in your exchange? Are you doing kyc fully towards your all customer base or on random basis based on currency and balance they hold?

Last excuse was that OP had fiat sitting in his account ,which he never asked to withdraw. So my question stands: just holding fiat constitute to kyc in your exchange?
Because I dont believe crypto is really the reason for this kyc. And hiding behind kyc and AML only proves you stuck and don't know where to go with this. Unfortunately centralised services like this are real issue in crypto sphere. You wish to be recognized as tech /crypto place but using some first degree shit kyc and aml excuses to limit people from using their own assets. Or you wish to move away from those handcuffs of old days or you just hiding behind crypto to carry on like use to be with banks etc.
Your name of the service I believe is already damaged, and therefore u behaving this way. Because you know there is nothing more to loose.
That's my opinion. 

I just google translated their italian mumbo jumbo so other people could see how stupid it is

[Trading]

I just gave both founders negative feedback because of this scam for these reasons:

I was a Rock user for some years and never had any problem. I even gave you a vouch on this thread (that I just changed).

It's because of this that I'm astonished with this situation.

Unexplained and unnotified withdrawal blocks?

Imposing verification against your FAQ under threat of keeping the user money blocked?

Are you crazy? Do you realize how damaging this is for you?

What annoys me is that I could be on your situation.

Well, they didn't even try to justify themselves. I'm giving them both negative feedback.

A honest exchange like Kraken, when they want to force a user to verify based on clear terms of their TOS, they block trading and deposits, but not withdrawals. If the user don't want to verify, he can take his money and Kraken will close his account.

But I guess that if they were once honest, in the meanwhile they forgot about what is being a honest exchange.

This looks like a scam with the customary ploys.

[Coinfan]

Thanks for your support, Trading.

[s1lverbox]

I left also negative feedback for both. My trusted set them red. So this should be more visible to pottential customers therock.

[r34tr783tr78]

I already have given the scammer medri/eliale negative feedback twice but just gave also negative to the CTO paci.

Hey scammer medri I'm making you famous! My page about your deeds is slowly getting better results on google.

[Coinfan]

I left also negative feedback for both. My trusted set them red. So this should be more visible to pottential customers therock.

I already have given the scammer medri/eliale negative feedback twice but just gave also negative to the CTO paci.

Thanks for given them the deserved credit for this accomplishment.

[Mirae]

So any new progress ?

[Coinfan]

Yes, it's time to write to their business partners and newspapers/newssites about this.

[JollyGood]

I read that Rock Trading claims to have 500k EURO of trade every 24 hours.

I think they are not a full scam out but are selective scammers. They let this situation carry on for nearly a year.

[Coinfan]

If they indeed consulted a lawyer (the "thing" they posted as a "legal opinion" makes me doubt that), they now know their real legal situation, because the misleading things the paid lawyer wrote at their request and what the lawyer told them had to be completely different.

Let's summarized their legal mess:

I) They blocked my withdrawals 11 months ago, on December 2017:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47413970#msg47413970
Guilty.

II) They repeatedly refused to explain why, which means they had no legitimate reason to do that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
Guilty

III) They didn't inform me about the block and let me keep trading and even entrapping more money with a new deposit after the block.
This is fraud and a clear breach of their own TOS that demands them in case of a block to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User”(point 8.4: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).
Guilty

IV) When I complained, they blackmailed me to send my documents or they would keep blocking my money against their previous assurances and FAQ that says "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
Guilty.

V) Since I argued this, they accepted I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time". When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47423847#msg47423847
I have a copy of the CTO email of 21 August 2018 about this.
Guilty

VI) They wrote that if I don't comply they are going to keep my money "forever": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty

VII) They kept raising suspicions about my ownership ignoring all the evidence I have that no honest person can deny. Actually, they never even asked to check some of the evidence that they didn't see.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty.

VIII) They kept lying about European Law, invoking european directives that they know aren't applicable (I told them so several times) because they only bind States members to adopt internal legislation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47461136#msg47461136
Guilty.

IX) They kept lying about the meaning of their TOS, quoting several inapplicable rules and none in particular, just to confuse.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46183000#msg46183000
Guilty.

X) They posted a misleading paid "legal opinion" in order to confuse customers and the community that is illegal taking in account italian Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), under the name of "subjected entities", restricts ANY application of its provisions to a crypto exchange only to operations of conversion (not trading or exchange) of crypto to fiat that only happens when the customer makes a fiat withdrawal (something I don't want):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47868314#msg47868314
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47897379#msg47897379
Guilty.

XI) They created an alt account and used it to post defending themselves and paid members to post here to confuse the community:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
Guilty.

XII) They raised suspicions about me, suggesting I hacked my Rock account or that I'm some sort of criminal against all the evidence I have that the account is mine.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg46990096#msg46990096
They seem to think that there is defamation only when someone accuse other openly and that raising suspicions against all evidence isn't defamation. They are asking for being taught the hard way about how wrong they are.

XIII) They confessed that they don't care if they are breaching Italian Law or not: "if you believe we are not following the law and you do not agree on our security policies, there is nothing more we can do."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47475877#msg47475877


They haven't deny ANY of my factual allegations, I'm not the one lying here. They actually confirmed the main ones: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

[Mirae]

If they indeed consulted a lawyer (the "thing" they posted as a "legal opinion" makes me doubt that), they now know their real legal situation, because the misleading things the paid lawyer wrote at their request and what the lawyer told them had to be completely different.

Let's summarized their legal mess:

I) They blocked my withdrawals 11 months ago, on December 2017:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47413970#msg47413970
Guilty.

II) They repeatedly refused to explain why, which means they had no legitimate reason to do that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
Guilty

III) They didn't inform me about the block and let me keep trading and even entrapping more money with a new deposit after the block.
This is fraud and a clear breach of their own TOS that demands them in case of a block to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User”(point 8.4: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).
Guilty

IV) When I complained, they blackmailed me to send my documents or they would keep blocking my money against their previous assurances and FAQ that says "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
Guilty.

V) Since I argued this, they accepted I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time". When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47423847#msg47423847
I have a copy of the CTO email of 21 August 2018 about this.
Guilty

VI) They wrote that if I don't comply they are going to keep my money "forever": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty

VII) They kept raising suspicions about my ownership ignoring all the evidence I have that no honest person can deny. Actually, they never even asked to check some of the evidence that they didn't see.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty.

VIII) They kept lying about European Law, invoking european directives that they know aren't applicable (I told them so several times) because they only bind States members to adopt internal legislation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47461136#msg47461136
Guilty.

IX) They kept lying about the meaning of their TOS, quoting several inapplicable rules and none in particular, just to confuse.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46183000#msg46183000
Guilty.

X) They posted a misleading paid "legal opinion" in order to confuse customers and the community that is illegal taking in account italian Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), under the name of "subjected entities", restricts ANY application of its provisions to a crypto exchange only to operations of conversion (not trading or exchange) of crypto to fiat that only happens when the customer makes a withdrawal:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47868314#msg47868314
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47897379#msg47897379
Guilty.

XI) They created an alt account and used it to post defending themselves and paid members to post here to confuse the community:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
Guilty.

They haven't deny ANY of my factual allegations, I'm not the one lying here. They actually confirmed the main ones: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

at this point i would really just go to the police, you will get your money back and they will get in deep trouble, win win situation

[JollyGood]

If they indeed consulted a lawyer (the "thing" they posted as a "legal opinion" makes me doubt that), they now know their real legal situation, because the misleading things the paid lawyer wrote at their request and what the lawyer told them had to be completely different.

Let's summarized their legal mess:

I) They blocked my withdrawals 11 months ago, on December 2017:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47413970#msg47413970
Guilty.

II) They repeatedly refused to explain why, which means they had no legitimate reason to do that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
Guilty

III) They didn't inform me about the block and let me keep trading and even entrapping more money with a new deposit after the block.
This is fraud and a clear breach of their own TOS that demands them in case of a block to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User”(point 8.4: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).
Guilty

IV) When I complained, they blackmailed me to send my documents or they would keep blocking my money against their previous assurances and FAQ that says "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
Guilty.

V) Since I argued this, they accepted I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time". When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47423847#msg47423847
I have a copy of the CTO email of 21 August 2018 about this.
Guilty

VI) They wrote that if I don't comply they are going to keep my money "forever": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty

VII) They kept raising suspicions about my ownership ignoring all the evidence I have that no honest person can deny. Actually, they never even asked to check some of the evidence that they didn't see.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
Guilty.

VIII) They kept lying about European Law, invoking european directives that they know aren't applicable (I told them so several times) because they only bind States members to adopt internal legislation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47461136#msg47461136
Guilty.

IX) They kept lying about the meaning of their TOS, quoting several inapplicable rules and none in particular, just to confuse.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46183000#msg46183000
Guilty.

X) They posted a misleading paid "legal opinion" in order to confuse customers and the community that is illegal taking in account italian Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), under the name of "subjected entities", restricts ANY application of its provisions to a crypto exchange only to operations of conversion (not trading or exchange) of crypto to fiat that only happens when the customer makes a fiat withdrawal (something I don't want):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47868314#msg47868314
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47897379#msg47897379
Guilty.

XI) They created an alt account and used it to post defending themselves and paid members to post here to confuse the community:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
Guilty.

They haven't deny ANY of my factual allegations, I'm not the one lying here. They actually confirmed the main ones: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

This is an excellent post. You have listed so many of their short-comings and without any doubt exposed these scammers for who they are.

They actually want people to believe they are a "good" or "honest" business but Rock Trading is a scam outfit.

They have next to nothing in social media and telegram followers, they claim to be trading over $1.8 million EURO per 24 hours. That sounds like a big scam to me because this tiny "exchange" has no credibility and only a few people heard of them. They claim to be around 7 years but they are either full scammers or selective scammers.

Never ever make the mistake to send your ID to them for KYC because they will probably sell it on or misuse it to get revenge on you for exposing them.

I tried so hard to reason with them asking them to refund you but these scammers did not listen so I am so happy I added them to my Scam Alert signature after they refused all mediation.

[Crashing]

If I had any doubt about this being a scam, this summary removed it.
I hope you recover your money.

[JollyGood]

If I had any doubt about this being a scam, this summary removed it.
I hope you recover your money.

We hope this Rock Trading shuts down soon. Hopefully it will get raided by the law enforcement agencies soon.

[s1lverbox]

Friend of mine looked in to this and unfortunately for him life is to busy to help at this moment.

Might be good idea to post some articles or at least hire someone with writing skills to create proper article with all in for in it. Of course SEO friendly and English/italian language correctly worded.
Maybe this would look expensive at the start but once article is done can be posted in many places for free. Bigger exposure and Google will do the rest of the job.
Once that is done you can hire again freelancer to make another article which will mean same thing but can be worded differently.

Post that on forums/Reddit/twitter for massive exposure.
TheRockTrading must be stopped. This type of scams only ruin general perception of crypto.

[Coinfan]

at this point i would really just go to the police, you will get your money back and they will get in deep trouble, win win situation

Going to the italian authorities won't be easy:

1) Italian courts (even criminal courts) are infamous for their delays. So, this can take many months to be solved on court.
2) The complaint will have to me written by my lawyer with the help of an Italian lawyer to be shore that they will end in jail. This will be expensive.
3) The judge might decide to give an interim order to make them release my money or he might decide that they can't be allowed to keep managing the Rock and freeze all their banking accounts.
This would mean that they would end with a run on the Rock from all customers and they wouldn't be able to release my money even if they wanted.

Actually, they most certainly are losing money with their trading bot because of bitcoin crash. As JollyGood just wrote I wouldn't be surprised if they closed doors.


I will go to the authorities, but first I'm going to use the rest of the means I have at my disposal.

If I had any doubt about this being a scam, this summary removed it.
I hope you recover your money.

Crashing, thanks for your support.

Might be good idea to post some articles or at least hire someone with writing skills to create proper article with all in for in it.
Post that on forums/Reddit/twitter for massive exposure.
TheRockTrading must be stopped. This type of scams only ruin general perception of crypto.

s1lverbox, thank you for your suggestion. I'll think about it. I already posted this on several sites on the Internet. Just google Rock trading truffa or Rock trading scam and check my signature.

There is also an italian thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
Feel free to post there too.

They also have a facebook account: https://www.facebook.com/TheRockTrading
And a tweeter account: https://twitter.com/therocktrading