Biblepay BBP Community Discussion Thread

[thesnat21]

Regardless of whether Rob wants to participate or not, we can design an innovative whale-proof MN voting system that gives everyone equal voting power.

Lets think outside of the DASH box. I suggest a registration process where each staked MN investor is verified and added to a voter registration list. Each voter is assigned an ID via the same process used by legitimate crypto exchanges. Every registered voter gets one vote regardless of how many MNs they own. The majority vote wins. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous simply doesn't register to vote.

This type of democratic voting system would appeal to forward looking Christians interested in investing in a charitable coin where Christ is the only King.

Interesting idea,  how do you validate someone only has 1 identity?

And where would this service live,  on the blockchain?

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[zthomasz]

Regardless of whether Rob wants to participate or not, we can design an innovative whale-proof MN voting system that gives everyone equal voting power.

Lets think outside of the DASH box. I suggest a registration process where each staked MN investor is verified and added to a voter registration list. Each voter is assigned an ID via the same process used by legitimate crypto exchanges. Every registered voter gets one vote regardless of how many MNs they own. The majority vote wins. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous simply doesn't register to vote.

This type of democratic voting system would appeal to forward looking Christians interested in investing in a charitable coin where Christ is the only King.

Interesting idea,  how do you validate someone only has 1 identity?

And where would this service live,  on the blockchain?

We could use the CoinBase.com model to verify. They require an email address, a phone number for Logins (2-step verification via text message) and either a Passport, Driver's License or State/Country etc issued Photo ID.

Either incorporate it into the chain somehow, or use a secure website like CoinBase.com does.

[sunk818]

Regardless of whether Rob wants to participate or not, we can design an innovative whale-proof MN voting system that gives everyone equal voting power.

Lets think outside of the DASH box. I suggest a registration process where each staked MN investor is verified and added to a voter registration list. Each voter is assigned an ID via the same process used by legitimate crypto exchanges. Every registered voter gets one vote regardless of how many MNs they own. The majority vote wins. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous simply doesn't register to vote.

This type of democratic voting system would appeal to forward looking Christians interested in investing in a charitable coin where Christ is the only King.

Interesting idea,  how do you validate someone only has 1 identity?

And where would this service live,  on the blockchain?

We could use the CoinBase.com model to verify. They require an email address, a phone number for Logins (2-step verification via text message) and either a Passport, Driver's License or State/Country etc issued Photo ID.

Either incorporate it into the chain somehow, or use a secure website like CoinBase.com does.

There's likely a lot of services that offer individuals to validate KYC and can be trusted.

https://www.civic.com/solutions/kyc-services/

#1 Rob is highly against revealing his personal details. Explains why pseudonyms are being used instead of actual name. I highly doubt he will participate.

#2 Not perfect, but if you tie masternode voting so that you need an active CPID, that may be lower hanging fruit. We already use CPID to somewhat tie to a specific wallet address. So, your CPID is tied to your masternode somehow. Not sure the impact with third-party services... we already have more requirements to run a masternode, so having another requirement may be unappealing? Compared to KYC and tying that to masternode voting, I don't really envision that happening. At least with CPID, you have a little bit more distributed anonymity.

[zthomasz]

Regardless of whether Rob wants to participate or not, we can design an innovative whale-proof MN voting system that gives everyone equal voting power.

Lets think outside of the DASH box. I suggest a registration process where each staked MN investor is verified and added to a voter registration list. Each voter is assigned an ID via the same process used by legitimate crypto exchanges. Every registered voter gets one vote regardless of how many MNs they own. The majority vote wins. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous simply doesn't register to vote.

This type of democratic voting system would appeal to forward looking Christians interested in investing in a charitable coin where Christ is the only King.

Interesting idea,  how do you validate someone only has 1 identity?

And where would this service live,  on the blockchain?

We could use the CoinBase.com model to verify. They require an email address, a phone number for Logins (2-step verification via text message) and either a Passport, Driver's License or State/Country etc issued Photo ID.

Either incorporate it into the chain somehow, or use a secure website like CoinBase.com does.

There's likely a lot of services that offer individuals to validate KYC and can be trusted.

https://www.civic.com/solutions/kyc-services/

#1 Rob is highly against revealing his personal details. Explains why pseudonyms are being used instead of actual name. I highly doubt he will participate.

#2 Not perfect, but if you tie masternode voting so that you need an active CPID, that may be lower hanging fruit. We already use CPID to somewhat tie to a specific wallet address. So, your CPID is tied to your masternode somehow. Not sure the impact with third-party services... we already have more requirements to run a masternode, so having another requirement may be unappealing? Compared to KYC and tying that to masternode voting, I don't really envision that happening. At least with CPID, you have a little bit more distributed anonymity.

I don't expect Rob to participate, or for that matter ever give up control of his coin. I wish him the best, hopefully someday our investments in BBP will pay off.

In the meantime we can brainstorm improvements that will appeal to people who want more than Rob offers. Better transparency, better governance, better function, ease of use, leadership, unity, trust and price stability.  

Personally I think the creepy type of anonymity that is common in the crypto world is a liability. FaceBook would never have reached their level of success with that model. Even DASH continues to move away from their XCoin / DarkCoin history.

A reasonable amount of anonymity is desirable, certainly in virtual environments like bitcointalk, discord, slack. But the larger Christian community/church will never feel comfortable hanging out in places where an anonymous stranger can profanely interrupt the conversation/mood at any time.

FB uses an open account registration model, yet requires a private invitation to join someone's community. So does LinkedIn. Every bank requires ID verification, yet they all provide a reasonable amount of anonymity. Credit card companies do the same thing, as do legitimate crypto exchanges.

A similar new coin based on Christian principles and innovation can offer reasonable privacy, plus the transparency needed to conduct business in a trustworthy way that the outside world will respect.

There's no reason to rush ahead with a new project, or even propose changes for Rob to reject. BBP provides an opportunity for us to learn how to do it better and gives us an open-source platform that can be customized when needed.

[tmike]

Zthomas, like what you said.

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

I'm against centralization - the centralized checkpoint server

Fair enough. You are working towards technological decentralization with IPFS, so I can understand your train of thought. It is not uncommon to see this arrangement for low hashrate altcoins, but whatever.

I dont think we should be saying we have a  "horrible UI" therefore a "horrible UX".

Why not? Poor user interface (UI) creates a poor user experience (UX). I've done a lot of testing with the QT wallet and I'd rank the UX poor. If you identified a button being out of place as the UX issue, you've entirely missed the point.

Anton - who created the awesome Bezaleel theme.

Yes, Bezaleel is a great theme. Maybe we can make it the default? Or we could take a survey for best existing wallet theme? https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XHJ287C

the design is fine, its functional, its getting the job done. But also Rob, sadly people judge things by how they look, if we can look even better Im all for it.

If it was only about look, you could lipstick on a pig and call it a day. It is more about the function (or lack thereof) and having things work in the way people expect.

[SVK Noko]

   

   

     Free market answers you every day. Thanks for the free market.

   

    Yes it does, and won't it be so splendid when we pass a 5$ mil market cap and sponsor 500+ orphans per month? 

   

Free market is telling you some months already that without profit nobody will sponsor anybody anymore.

[sunk818]

[SVK Noko]

Free market answers you every day. Thanks for the free market.

Yes it does, and won't it be so splendid when we pass a 5$ mil market cap and sponsor 500+ orphans per month? 

Free market is telling you some months already that without profit nobody will sponsor anybody anymore.

Free market has moved practically all small masternode coins down a 95% or more.

BBP is down 75%.

I think free market is telling us things, but not the ones you claim. In any case you are not a representative of free market.

Oh yes :-) Im not a representative :-) keep living in your bbp bubble.

[SVK Noko]

yes.....high price of BBP= high dump from his side   

Until ppl will not see the visibility of profit they will never more invest bigger money into bbp. Today when you open the site can see only charity everywhere. Its great idea but where it starts there it actually ends.

[SVK Noko]

Free market answers you every day. Thanks for the free market.

Yes it does, and won't it be so splendid when we pass a 5$ mil market cap and sponsor 500+ orphans per month? 

Free market is telling you some months already that without profit nobody will sponsor anybody anymore.

Free market has moved practically all small masternode coins down a 95% or more.

BBP is down 75%.

I think free market is telling us things, but not the ones you claim. In any case you are not a representative of free market.

UI designer from dash proposed you help with design. I suppose that communication with him was killed already :-) Am I right?

[SVK Noko]

Slovakia, once again you post meaningless things, your wasting everyones time again

Removing the Charity aspect removes a foundation of what the coin is built on,
I doubt it would ever get removed, your welcome to put it up to vote though,
I can show you how to use the proposal system

Do you know any Marketing/PR people or Advisors for BiblePay?

Your only proposal Slovakia you deleted after you were shown to be unprofessional and talking to scammers
and your buddy SVK Noko spent $300 for 200 youtube views, I don't think you guys have good track record to be giving advice

I recommend that everyone click the "Ignore" button under Slovakia, SVK Noko and Slavino

:-) :-)

Idiotic comment. And tell everyone why there were no more money for more serious youtube review. Hm? Why? Because Togos proposals will be out of the budget? Hm? I wrote you more proposals from youtube channels which have hundred thousands CRYPTO followers, BUT, no money for that. So be quite please. Everything is question of money. Common and tell everyone. How many views and follows have you ensured for the money you are taking every month??? Hm? Common tell us the numbers... You guys want to have great PR and on the other hand no money no money :-) its really funny. The truth is you are always writing here if you have some idea just write proposal, ok but write here also that there are no money for that too. Big part of the budget goes to orphans, then IT expenses, rest of the budget is PR, big part of this goes to your poor PR activities, each month. Ok, so how much remains? In dollars? Less than 500 usd. So? What are you talking about? Why you are asking then if somebody knows some professionall PR people? Do you think they will work for free?

[togoshigekata]

Hey everyone,

Rob is emailing me in private calling me names and accusing me of things without evidence,
I asked for evidence and he just called me names again...

Ive logged out of my biblepay.org email account, I assume it will be deleted soon anyways

Rob asked me for the social media credentials,
but I will not be surrendering any credentials,
I will not let more centralization happen,
Jaap and Luke already have admin access to everything

Rob, maybe your realizing you dont have as much control as you think you think you did?
Isnt that the point of decentralization? LOL

Ive been doing whatever I can to deal with the good and bad of everyone and trying to keep everyone together, but Rob for example, thinks that its wise to delete bible quotes from 60 year old men LOL and continue censoring posts, editing his own posts, calling people names and pushing people away from the project

Respect is not all or nothing Rob, I respect your technical prowess and most of your decisions,
I do not respect the way you have treated some people though,
Respect is earned, not given, and its easy to lose.

I hope you keep losing control Rob, thats the point.

Im curious to see how the community will respond

Im not going anywhere, but I will be reducing my involvement for now,

Thanks for reading,
Togo

[secoccular]

bbp fork? Oh, that's right, the algo is closed-source.

I'm amazed to see people who I associate as being part of the backbone of the project being treated so poorly. This looks like a great idea that turned into to a house divided. Sad.

I'm hesitant to proceed with a coin that doesn't seem to have a working explorer?

[zthomasz]

Hey everyone,

Rob is emailing me in private calling me names and accusing me of things without evidence,
I asked for evidence and he just called me names again...

Ive logged out of my biblepay.org email account, I assume it will be deleted soon anyways

Rob asked me for the social media credentials,
but I will not be surrendering any credentials,
I will not let more centralization happen,
Jaap and Luke already have admin access to everything

Rob, maybe your realizing you dont have as much control as you think you think you did?
Isnt that the point of decentralization? LOL

Ive been doing whatever I can to deal with the good and bad of everyone and trying to keep everyone together, but Rob for example, thinks that its wise to delete bible quotes from 60 year old men LOL and continue censoring posts, editing his own posts, calling people names and pushing people away from the project

Respect is not all or nothing Rob, I respect your technical prowess and most of your decisions,
I do not respect the way you have treated some people though,
Respect is earned, not given, and its easy to lose.

I hope you keep losing control Rob, thats the point.

Im curious to see how the community will respond

Im not going anywhere, but I will be reducing my involvement for now,

Thanks for reading,
Togo

Togo,

It hurts me that this is happening to you. I've known you since the early days of BBP and you've always been a loyal supporter of BBP and Rob. Your generosity and love for the orphans that we support is unquestionable.

The fact that Rob now considers you a "rat" confirms that he doesn't yet know how to sustain healthy relationships with investors that are essential to the success of this project. Effective communication it is a leadership skill that he can choose to learn, I hope he does.

Beyond that, we still need a better form of governance that isn't controlled by a single dev, a system in which whales can't sink the ship. These fatal flaws in the common masternode model have to be changed in order to attract intelligent investors.

To get this done requires us to be innovative and prayerfully follow God's guidance.

[macko20]

Rob deleted my message


So who if not miners may have to help a coin, otherwise make a full airdrop.

Rob. No nerves, please.
---------------------
The End bbp

[sunk818]

[inblue]

I'm sick of spending a large amount of energy trying to carefully word a post in a hopeless attempt to pander you and sound nice, when you are not nice to others. So here are my raw thoughts, not adjusted to your yes-men taste.

Regarding your statement about control in proposals:  It is entirely inaccurate.  A good example of this is the current Hope for Widows proposal.  I have no control over making it win with Togo's and your masternodes voting it down.  And my payroll this month (which btw, is one half of one half btw:  Its two months of work with one month of proposal - capped at half the IT budget) and its being declined because of Togos votes against it. 

So, please keep that in mind and adjust your thought processes accordingally.

No, it's not being declined because of Togo's votes, it's being declined because you haven't voted with your masternodes. The proposal currently stands at only 2 yes votes.

Or maybe you have voted, but against your own proposal, to make you look like a victim. So in order to prove that you didn't vote against your proposal, you should list your masternode IDs and then vote with them to prove that they're yours. Of course, you won't do that. So how do you know that all those votes are Togo's? You don't, it's not provable. So you just made an allegation against him. You attacked Togo without proof and now I did that to you, so how does it feel?

Let's say you didn't really vote against your proposal and you have all of your masternode votes available. Then it's easy: if you just vote for the proposal with all of your masternodes, it will pass. But you will not do that because you want to hide the amount of masternodes you own. End of story.

Oh, and don't tell us your votes would not cover the 10% absolute yes votes needed, we've been watching past proposals and the sudden jumps in votes, before you realized you need to vote slowly. And don't tell us you didn't increase your masternode count during the low price period now, because you did. I know that you personally have played a big part in keeping the market afloat.

Also, what is really concerning and very centralized of you is that you have the power to simply delete/hide a proposal on a whim if you feel like it, to reset the votes and change the outcome. This is exactly what you did with the Widows proposal now and what you have been doing multiple times before. Proof:

---

1st widows proposal (the removed one):

Code:

gobject get 61a147f3b0eb0f5e349e8044878cdcb83ef3154084815cdca613394dc5acb129

payment_amount: 481540
CreationTime: 1539455510 (October 13, 2018 6:31:50 PM)

Code:

gobject getcurrentvotes 61a147f3b0eb0f5e349e8044878cdcb83ef3154084815cdca613394dc5acb129

68 positive votes, 72 negative votes, 7 abstains

---

2nd widows proposal:

Code:

gobject get 45ab07c518bf3b4e175e42ec3122b1a1089ce1b5681758ac4bae26fae82935da

payment_amount: 381540 (?)
CreationTime: 1540215079 (October 22, 2018 1:31:19 PM)

Code:

gobject getcurrentvotes 45ab07c518bf3b4e175e42ec3122b1a1089ce1b5681758ac4bae26fae82935da

5 negative votes, 4 abstains (0 votes a few hours ago)

---

This means that you removed the votes (reset the proposal) in a centralized manner. You hid the original proposal from your centralized website, in order to deceive and mislead people. But the hidden proposal is actually still visible from the wallet, maybe you forgot that. I'm sure the wallet will be "improved" to also hide the proposals you decide should be reset/removed.

[sunk818]

No, I entered a second proposal because Togo voted down the first one and it was so far below zero it could not be voted by me.

Wait, you're telling us someone voted down your proposal... and since you didn't vote with all your 80+ masternodes, you can't upvote them anymore? And now that you can't, you created a second proposal so you could maybe upvote the proposal before it is downvoted? Something stinks about this...

Please be careful,  yes he said that, but that doesn't mean it was him that voted against you.   It's possible that someone else was voting around the same time.  I know at least one other that had 37 MN's last month, he could easily have 38 this month.

Are all -38 MNs votes exactly the same IDs? Can we say with certainty it was Togo? Honestly, it could be dozens of people. Rob's alienated more people than my little fingers can count. It was always in theory that someone could oppose Rob's proposal, but at least we know it is a real possibility now.

My only concern is there are now 2 active proposals,  this is a bad precedent to set.  

LOL, bad precedent? Like Rob says, its been happening for months... Duplicate proposals are made by accident or intentionally many times already. It happens on DASH sometimes too, but it happens more frequently with BBP proposals.


Matthew 7:24-27 English Standard Version (ESV)
Build Your House on the Rock
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

[inblue]

Good responses, sunk818. His first sentence is baffling to me, I'm shocked, he must have wrote the truth accidentally, lol. Anyway, here's my soon-to-be-deleted post:

-----

No, it's not being declined because of Togo's votes, it's being declined because you haven't voted with your masternodes. The proposal currently stands at only 2 yes votes.

CreationTime: 1540215079 (October 22, 2018 1:31:19 PM)

Code:

gobject getcurrentvotes 45ab07c518bf3b4e175e42ec3122b1a1089ce1b5681758ac4bae26fae82935da

5 negative votes, 4 abstains (0 votes a few hours ago)

---

This means that you removed the votes (reset the proposal) in a centralized manner. You hid the original proposal from your centralized website, in order to deceive and mislead people. But the hidden proposal is actually still visible from the wallet, maybe you forgot that. I'm sure the wallet will be "improved" to also hide the proposals you decide should be reset/removed.

No, I entered a second proposal because Togo voted down the first one and it was so far below zero it could not be voted by me.

Umm, WHAT? I honestly didn't expect you would admit so easily that I was right, haha. Cool stuff. Thanks, it's good to be honest. Now an apology to the community would be in order.

Still, that kind of action is deeply concerning for a decentralized project and we hope you will not do it again.

By the way, about your private message to me, mister PM-lord who always sends ugly PMs to people when he's upset, instead of confronting them publicly:

There is absolutely no reason for me to talk to you privately. I'm not interested in your personal life, so anything project-related can and must be talked about in public. And then when you attack someone, it's better for the public to see your real face.

You explicitly called me a coward in the PM, yet ironically you only want to hide in PMs with your dirty talk. In fact you even say in the PM:

Just checking to see if you will post this on the forum

Lol. Same bravery as with post deletions.

Nothing should happen behind closed doors in a cryptocurrency project, especially not in a charity project like this.